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Faulkens view on Class Wrestling


AJ

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3 hours ago, Galagore said:

This is unfortunate, though not surprising. It does not dissuade me one iota from continuing to try to draw as many as possible to logical benefits of classing the individual tournament.

 

Never!!!! 1 champion per weight class. One individual tournament. 

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We could easily have BOTH! I would treat the class individual tournament as the warm ups to the single class individual tournament. Could help with ranking the kids and also help grow the smaller schools (even the bigger schools). It could definitely help encourage those multi sport athletes to stick with wrestling or not feel like they have to give up another sport to compete. Yes Mason Paris was a multi sport athlete, but he is not the norm. Why couldn't we make the Al Smith a little later, maybe after Team State be one of the classed individual state tournaments? We would need the IHSAA to allow another tournament or more matches, but we don't go into March (anymore) like a lot of other states still do.

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Love that IHSWCA has worked get a classed team dual situation going during the season with the absence of team state duals. I've heard the arguments for a classed individual tournament and I'm not going to deny that they have some merit for growing the sport, but there is just something special about having one state champion. As a fan, I hope they don't change that. I am for possible tweeting the wrestle back situations at semi-state and state, but other than that I'd say leave the state finals as is. I am down for classed duals any day though--with the option of letting powerhouses (like MD) move up if they choose. 

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I would agree.  Sometimes people on here can get a offended so I promise none of this is aimed at anyone or any program...

 

To added classes, extra teams, extra wrestlers to the post-season ultimately waters down what it means to be a champion. Obviously, I am a fan of determining who is THE champion. 
 

Compared this to college basketball or college football.  Most sports fans can tell you who the past few NCAA basketball champions were. Now who has won the past few NIT championships?  Collegeinsider.com tourney?  Other than the teams that won, who cares?


College football bowl games. So many games that know one cares about but it makes the season longer for more and more teams. To colleges they bring money from television rights, etc.  In high school, extra games/tourneys add to the cost of a season. 
 

I forget the exact numbers but years ago about 25% of college basketball teams made the post-season. Now I think it’s closer to 40%. Still only 1 that counts. I’m sure football has similar trends and still only 1 that matters. 
 

College girls teams don’t have as many opportunities to stretch their. seasons. Guessing if there was money to be made they would, but there isn’t. Sooooo, fewer post season opportunities. 
 

I guess what I am saying is embrace the awesome event you just saw because there is a chance that if you try give everyone the title of champion, eventually it won’t mean as much. I definitely don’t want to see this event turn into 3 little events held in high school gyms with 3 individuals claiming to be the best and no clear winners. There is no way that improves what we have here in Indiana. 

Edited by TakeTheShot
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2 minutes ago, TakeTheShot said:

I would agree.  Sometimes people on here can get a offended so I promise none of this is aimed at anyone or any program...

 

To added classes, extra teams, extra wrestlers to the post-season ultimately waters down what it means to be a champion. Obviously, I am a fan of determining who is THE champion. 
 

Compared this to college basketball or college football.  Most sports fans can tell you who the past few NCAA basketball champions were. Now who has won the past few NIT championships?  Collegeinsider.com tourney?  Other than the teams that won, who cares?


College football bowl games. So many games that know one cares about but it makes the season longer for more and more teams. To colleges they bring money from television rights, etc.  In high school, extra games/tourneys add to the cost of a season. 
 

I forget the exact numbers but years ago about 25% of college basketball teams made the post-season. Now I think it’s closer to 40%. Still only 1 that counts. I’m sure football has similar trends and still only 1 that matters. 
 

College girls teams don’t have as many opportunities to stretch their. seasons. Guessing if there was money to be made they would, but there isn’t. Sooooo, fewer post season opportunities. 
 

I guess what I am saying is embrace the awesome event you just saw because there is a chance that if you try give everyone the title of champion, eventually it won’t mean as much. I definitely don’t want to see this event turn into 3 little events held in high school gyms with 3 individuals claiming to be the best and no clear winners. There is no way that improves what we have here in Indiana. 

It doesn't matter if random fans remember who a "champion" is. It matters to the kids that win and their schools. High school athletics should not be about the wins and losses, it NEEDS to be about building up great kids to be GREATER adults. More kids participating in wrestling or other sports will never be a bad thing. Right now our participation is on a sharp decline and we need to get it back to a solid level. 

 

To what degree do we need to kill our sport to realize that this one true champion thing is detrimental to the sport? Do we have to lose 25 teams? 50 teams, 100? How many would open your eyes to an issue with participation in this sport?

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I think the best option has already been stated... have dual team championships that are based on school size.

 

And then have an individual tournament... to decide the state champ in each weight.

 

Could get crazy...and in the individual tournament let multiple kids wrestle the same weight class from a team. Since under my plan team championships would have already been crowned, and team score wouldn't matter.

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18 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

It doesn't matter if random fans remember who a "champion" is. It matters to the kids that win and their schools. High school athletics should not be about the wins and losses, it NEEDS to be about building up great kids to be GREATER adults. More kids participating in wrestling or other sports will never be a bad thing. Right now our participation is on a sharp decline and we need to get it back to a solid level. 

 

To what degree do we need to kill our sport to realize that this one true champion thing is detrimental to the sport? Do we have to lose 25 teams? 50 teams, 100? How many would open your eyes to an issue with participation in this sport?

Many sport participations are down. Football is getting killed, and it not due to lack of opportunity. Kids and parents don’t like the injury risks involved—whether it be concussions or COVID (now that they have taken more press than the sports themselves)—and the work it takes to be good at something. 
 

Let’s be honest...you have to be nuts to be an elite wrestler. If the hot practices and hard work in the room don’t scare you away the dieting and mental component of this sport definitely will. Compare that to what it takes to be part of a basketball team and I can tell you what most young kids looking to try something other than video games are going to pick. 
 

Wrestling, no doubt, creates the hardest working, mentally tough leaders in life—business leaders, church leaders, social leaders. Hell, after wrestling, that stuff is easy. I am arguing, it also attracts those types of kids. Those that have big goals in sports, school, and life.  
 

Honestly, if you are waiting until high school to instill what it takes to do well you are missing the boat. This stuff happens when they are in early grade school and more and more in preschool. I have seen more mental toughness in some 6-8th graders than I have seen with 21 y/os I hire. That’s why I hire as many wrestlers I can. They will outwork everyone else and do what it takes to succeed without needing their hand held. I don’t have try and teach that to an adult that was given everything. They were learning what it takes to be successful in kindergarten. 
 

Indiana has a good thing going and our state’s representation at the next level is growing. I would argue because of the way the ihsaa does things, not despite it. Honestly, probably has a even more to do with what our clubs and feeder programs are doing. That’s were you need levels and guess what...there are levels. Beyond the scope of this post and if you have tried to recruit participation at the ages you need to you would know. Anything from 2 kids rolling around with huge smiles and clueless to two 6 year old pitbulls running moves most teams can’t teach their high schoolers because it’s too advanced.  Both are awesome and both of these types of matches create state champs. I’ve seen it.  However if your room still has the kids rolling around with big smiles and no clue, they really don’t need to be called champions. But they can still be hard working, mentally tough wrestlers getting better prepared for life. 

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9 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

You didn't answer my question. 

No offense but I believe your question is based on a false premise, so I can’t give you an answer. 
 

I don’t believe any high school programs are losing wrestlers due to our high schools crowning a single champ. They are losing wrestlers because the didn’t become wrestlers before high school. They either never participated in a sport because they don’t like sports (that’s fine), they liked another sport better (less fine, but I understand), or their parents are not knowledgeable about the sport or unable (time, money, local resources) to get them into the sport at the right time and right level (not good, cause we are losing some great athletes that don’t even know about wrestling).  ***unrelated, but my argument why we don’t see even more freakish upper weights in the sport—they found something else first.  

Programs with feeder leagues and clubs are destined to win it every year.      They have all skill levels and put them with the correct level of competition. That’s what you need.  
 

I guess you can do something similar at the high school level...put kids at the right level of competition.  Don’t call it a state championship though.  
 

Class seems to be a silly way to determine the level of competition individually, by the way.  There are lots of individuals that are awesome that are on less talented or teams missing weights. Some hammers at Floyd Central, Tell City, North Posey and similar sized schools up north. However, they didn’t start in high school and would have stopped improving if they didn’t keep seeking competition that would be considered above their “class.”
 

Give me one champ!

—random fan

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2 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Nope just want to know the answer to a simple question. How many programs do we have to lose for you to look into the possibility of class wrestling being an option? 

This is a serious question.
 

Can we get the data on the amount of programs here in Indiana per year? Say like over the past 20. I would like to see this trend. 
 

Thanks

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I guess this an argument I have had with each of my kids at one time or another...

 

When you are little I don’t mind changing the rules to any game (Candyland, basketball, etc) to were you can win almost every time. 
 

Someday you (not you specifically—kids growing up have to realize you can’t keep changing rules until you become the winner.  You can say it makes it fair but really most people/kids are only changing the rules enough until they become the winner. 
 

Scientifically proven that those that take the most risk—put themselves in situation with long odds—over and over again, learn what it takes to be successful over time.  You need to lose matches to ultimate win the tough ones. I recommend making sure  you lose some when your young. That’s how you make great wrestlers great people too. 
 

Problem is the answer to this isn’t in your high schools now.  It’s in your grade schools...find them.  Your success won’t be next year but it will see it change in 5 years and ultimately be were you want in 10 years. 
 

No one want to hear that as a solution though. So I can’t be your politician. No one wants their situation to improve that far away. They want it right away. If it was easy, everyone would do it.  Oops, another things wrestlers/people learn, winning ain’t easy. 

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Does any one here surf any other states high school wrestling sites, that have single class? Do they banter about going to classed all the time? Jersey, California.. I like the single class, heck I’m so dated, I wish indiana had single class Basketball! 
But THANK GOD we went to class system, or the decrease in participation would have caused the sport to die off! 

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32 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

This is a serious question.
 

Can we get the data on the amount of programs here in Indiana per year? Say like over the past 20. I would like to see this trend. 
 

Thanks

We have fluctuated between 305 and 315 over the past 15ish years. Lots of reasons for the fluctuation from schools combining, new programs, schools closing, etc our number seems to change almost every year.

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Most people won't ever understand small school athletics. It's easy to say just work harder. I've been coaching small schools for 33 years. It's been a struggle for most of them. We don't have the same opportunities as big schools. The lack of facilities,multiple coaches and practice partners are the biggest hurdles we struggle with. 

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12 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

We have fluctuated between 305 and 315 over the past 15ish years. Lots of reasons for the fluctuation from schools combining, new programs, schools closing, etc our number seems to change almost every year.

Another serious question... What data suggest that we are going to lose programs? 

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