Indiana

[Disco]

I have to say that the Hoosiers laid an egg InThe Illinois dual. But looking back, the Illini worked Wisky and nipped the poison nuts. So maybe this wasn’t really as bad as it seemed. Going forward here I’m still optimistic even after Michigan match. The room has a lot of fight and competition that wasn’t there two years ago.  Keep up the good work. In a year or two I’m confident the last two matches will look a lot different. 

[MattM]

Lot of people on the national boards believe Illinois has a pretty high ceiling this season.  So, that match may have been a “coming out party” for the Illini as much as a rough start for IU.  Angel and the coach staff showed last years he can get some fight out of this group, so I have hope they can still get in the groove as the season progresses.  Hopefully, some cardio gets built up to, which seemed to hurt a few of the Hoosiers as the match progressed.   We all know those final team scores can be deceiving compared to the actual in match action, so we may still see some lob sided end results against top Big 10 programs. But, regardless of the final team score vs. any Big 10 teams I’m sure most of us just want to see them look competitive in each match.  

[Disco]

We all know Indiana is better, no if ands or buts about it. Angel has raised the bar for the program that was in despair. But we don’t realize sometimes is that the other schools are also upping the ante of their programs at the same time.  This is THE number 1 wrestling conference. I’m in awe of what ersland is doing with the Boiler program. Indiana can get there also. The main thing is the state schools need to push hard to keep the elite wrestlers in state. For the turn around to happen. 

[ReformedPoster]

The problem is, the elite in state talent is few and far between.  and when there is an elite talent (Micic, Red, Lee, Lee, Lee, Parris, Alred, etc) they are going to established programs that can prepare them for national title runs and beyond.  IU isn't there and Purdue isn't there.  If Angel can develop guys like Garcia, Rooks, Washington into legit AA candidates then others may start following.  I see only a couple of truly elite talents right now in HS....Mendez and Seltzer.  Throw in Christian Carroll as well, but he's not wrestling this year.  Frankly, I'd be shocked (in a good way) if these guys end up at IU at this point.  It would be huge for the IU program to get kids like that, but it would take a leap of faith for them.

[nkraus]

Had a long talk with a couple pretty good wrestling minds...and college coaches...you can't take a kid who is a 5 and get him close to a 10 in 5 years.  They need to come in at a 7... also, most of the kids who are AA level have credentials that include Fargo or ELITE level national wins...Fargo matters!!! (international) 

[FCFIGHTER170]

1 hour ago, nkraus said:

Had a long talk with a couple pretty good wrestling minds...and college coaches...you can't take a kid who is a 5 and get him close to a 10 in 5 years.  They need to come in at a 7... also, most of the kids who are AA level have credentials that include Fargo or ELITE level national wins...Fargo matters!!! (international) 

Also it helps when you get late bloomers that turn the corner in College. Willham at IU comes to mind for me.. Not saying he's Elite talent but he's one of those guys I've watched last 5 years make a huge jump in his game..If you would've told me 5 years ago he would beat A.Davison in college I would've been shocked! Not Hating on him but the total opposite, he's the poster child for hard work and great mind goes a long way . Just like Lydy showed as well.. I really hope IU keeps getting better and we some AAs soon..Asa beating down#17 Medley of michigan was fantastic! 

 

[nkraus]

1 hour ago, nkraus said:

Had a long talk with a couple pretty good wrestling minds...and college coaches...you can't take a kid who is a 5 and get him close to a 10 in 5 years.  They need to come in at a 7... also, most of the kids who are AA level have credentials that include Fargo or ELITE level national wins...Fargo matters!!! (international) 

And that's not to say other kids can't wrestle D1, but I guess I'm referring more to your kids who are in the running for round of 12/AA status

[Disco]

2 hours ago, nkraus said:

Had a long talk with a couple pretty good wrestling minds...and college coaches...you can't take a kid who is a 5 and get him close to a 10 in 5 years.  They need to come in at a 7... also, most of the kids who are AA level have credentials that include Fargo or ELITE level national wins...Fargo matters!!! (international) 

This. And it is obvious as the top programs in the big ten stay on top because of this.  They pray on our state elite only. Thus the guys we do get have to be coached up way more than the guys Michigan, Iowa, Ohio st. Or penn st. Get. 
catch 22 scenario for Indiana and Purdue. 
To break the cycle a prospect has to take a leap of faith in a coach who has never had a chance to coach up an elite. Not too many, if any, top prospects are turning down the top5-10 programs in the country to wrestle for the up and comers. 

[ReformedPoster]

4 hours ago, FCFIGHTER170 said:

Also it helps when you get late bloomers that turn the corner in College. Willham at IU comes to mind for me.. Not saying he's Elite talent but he's one of those guys I've watched last 5 years make a huge jump in his game..If you would've told me 5 years ago he would beat A.Davison in college I would've been shocked! Not Hating on him but the total opposite, he's the poster child for hard work and great mind goes a long way . Just like Lydy showed as well.. I really hope IU keeps getting better and we some AAs soon..Asa beating down#17 Medley of michigan was fantastic! 

 

No doubt, a good win for Garcia.  However, Medley has obviously lost his job at 125 and is just a place holder at 133 for Micic.

[SWINfan]

3 hours ago, Disco said:

This. And it is obvious as the top programs in the big ten stay on top because of this.  They pray on our state elite only. Thus the guys we do get have to be coached up way more than the guys Michigan, Iowa, Ohio st. Or Penn st. Get. 
catch 22 scenario for Indiana and Purdue. 
To break the cycle a prospect has to take a leap of faith in a coach who has never had a chance to coach up an elite. Not too many, if any, top prospects are turning down the top5-10 programs in the country to wrestle for the up and comers. 

I get what you are saying, but I don't think it's fair to insinuate the elite guys don't need as much coaching.  One could argue the coaching is better and more intense at the schools you mentioned.  But your greater point of trying to get a team to an elite level is valid.  To become elite, you need to get the elite and evaluate them properly.  Trying to take marginal (in terms of AA potential) and turn them into AA's and Title Contenders is one thing to do with one or 2 kids, but the elite level programs have 50% or more of their team there.  Much harder to do...

[FCFIGHTER170]

4 hours ago, ReformedPoster said:

No doubt, a good win for Garcia.  However, Medley has obviously lost his job at 125 and is just a place holder at 133 for Micic.

He placed 4th at big 10s and ncaa qualifier, very big win

[nkraus]

As far as Asa goes, that is pretty dang exciting he picked up that win like he did.  What are his accolades nationally, or at Fargo?  Maybe, he will be the next guy from Indiana to make a huge jump and get in the AA conversation in the next couple years.

 

So, what's everybody's opinion?  How do you know when you have a potential D1 AA recruit?  Is it FS/Greco experience?  Is it winning a state championship? 

 

Again, these are things I've debated with my buddies and college coaches...I feel there are a few things to look at ...

 

How did the kid win state?  Was he a physical specimen with an average skillset? (feel like we have a couple of those each year and that's not to say they won't get a better skillset)..or..  Was he a physical specimen with a very good skill set and not much FS/GR experience? (Parris-who just keeps getting better)

 

Was he a kid who lost on Friday night, who maybe wasn't physically his strongest self yet, but had an awesome top game?  (McCartney Parkinson...he just started, but that's a good debut and he's only going to get better with added strength + some neutral improvements)

 

Is it the kid who gets top 5 in state, but is young for his grade and doesn't have peach fuzz on his face yet?

 

  

 

 

[Disco]

10 hours ago, SWINfan said:

I get what you are saying, but I don't think it's fair to insinuate the elite guys don't need as much coaching.  One could argue the coaching is better and more intense at the schools you mentioned.  But your greater point of trying to get a team to an elite level is valid.  To become elite, you need to get the elite and evaluate them properly.  Trying to take marginal (in terms of AA potential) and turn them into AA's and Title Contenders is one thing to do with one or 2 kids, but the elite level programs have 50% or more of their team there.  Much harder to do...

When you say the coaching is maybe better at these schools , I can agree that the big elite programs do indeed have the money, resources to retain the best. And as far as coaching intensity is concerned, I’m not so sure, where the elites have an advantage,is in the intensity in the room, not necessarily from the coaches but highest level practice partners. All the coaching in the world can’t replicate live action.  And a lot of the non starters ,or practice partners ,for Iowa ,penn st. ,Ohio etc, are starters for Indiana .The depth of the up and coming programs lags here. This is where the intensity comes in to play. If the elite guys really want to get to the next level, they look at who is in the room to roll with every day ,more than who is the Head coach. But either way Indiana and Purdue still have a steep hill to climb to get to this level to attract the best. 
 

[MattM]

5 hours ago, Disco said:

 The depth of the up and coming programs lags here.

Another point of depth that’s hasn’t been addressed yet is its effect on recruiting.  These top level recruits want to be in room with multiple practice partners that can push them at their level.  This is something that is going to be harder to find at most weight classes for none top tier programs.  When IU and/or PU can develop some consistent NCAA qualifiers and All American threats around a weight cluster those top recruits will become more interested in taking a shot at the school because the partners are there for them.  Until then they just have to hope those recruits will take a chance on the coaching staffs abilities and interested in staying connected with their home state.    Hopefully that development is occuring now and within a few more seasons these programs will have a better shot at garnering some more top recruit interest. 

[Disco]

6 hours ago, Disco said:

If the elite guys really want to get to the next level, they look at who is in the room to roll with every day ,more than who is the Head coach. But eit

I did bring this up , but good points. What it boils down to is, us as observers and fans is there are major hurdles for Indiana to get the program going, let alone to the next elite level. And it may take more than one coaching era to accomplish .But the way I look at it is as long as you see the effort on the mat and with the coaches, I think a program is going in the right direction.  And I will continue to support and have patience. 
man it would be nice to land a Mendez to jump start the process. 

[FCFIGHTER170]

10 hours ago, nkraus said:

As far as Asa goes, that is pretty dang exciting he picked up that win like he did.  What are his accolades nationally, or at Fargo?  Maybe, he will be the next guy from Indiana to make a huge jump and get in the AA conversation in the next couple years.

 

So, what's everybody's opinion?  How do you know when you have a potential D1 AA recruit?  Is it FS/Greco experience?  Is it winning a state championship? 

 

Again, these are things I've debated with my buddies and college coaches...I feel there are a few things to look at ...

 

How did the kid win state?  Was he a physical specimen with an average skillset? (feel like we have a couple of those each year and that's not to say they won't get a better skillset)..or..  Was he a physical specimen with a very good skill set and not much FS/GR experience? (Parris-who just keeps getting better)

 

Was he a kid who lost on Friday night, who maybe wasn't physically his strongest self yet, but had an awesome top game?  (McCartney Parkinson...he just started, but that's a good debut and he's only going to get better with added strength + some neutral improvements)

 

Is it the kid who gets top 5 in state, but is young for his grade and doesn't have peach fuzz on his face yet?

 

  

 

 

I think it's different with each Wrestler..I think their work ethic and attitude are the main thing imho.. All the potential in the world is irrelevant if the mindset isn't there..

 

It's a collective set of things that go into it and it's impossible to put an exact answer to this very loaded question but I like the conversation and dialogue...

 

I think that the journey getting to being an AA is actually part of the unknown that makes coaching fun, challenging and rewarding because there's so many variables the go into achieving that status..

 

I've seen so many guys that you'd think would be a see a shew in state champion and eventual successful in college.. Then life throws things at them and things happen.. Then I've seen guys that well over achieved their perceived potential... There's such a huge leap in evey facet that can happen between college and HS where either guys Flourish and become the best them possible and some that are really successful don't pan out like many thought they would..

 

So that brings me back to knowing what to look for when trying to make an educated prediction on a Wrestlers success..If they got that dog in Em have showed to compete in every position regardless of the outcome, have great work ethic, attitude and GRADES then you have a great candidate to succeed at that level.. Not everybody is gonna be Zain or Snyder but remember there's 7 Other podium spots to be had and being an Academic all American is another dynamic to it.. If you're looking at a guy and he's a ACADEMIC All state in HS that right there answers many of the questions you have cuz regardless if he medals or not he's successful in the arena I life and that'll make you more proud than any

 

!As long as we as coaches keep evolving, contributing and learning ourselves the rest will take care of itself... At IU they are changing the culture, that process breeds success, then when a kid arrives to college regardless of his accolades he will be the small fish in the big pond again and have no choice but to get better, The level of comp in that room will make any guy that comes in the room  be there Best self possible..

 

Keep doing what you're doing brother and elevating the level in your area and getting us some guys that can go to IU and show out! It takes the entire Wrestling community to thrive for betterment of the sport and that I'm itself will keep our  state of Indiana rising up the ranks even higher when it comes to Not only Quality wrestling but quantity as well..

 

As you know PA and OH don't only have Elite talent At the top they have depth behind their great guys.. That breeds success having so much quality wrestling in state comp..Our HS scene is really pushing out tons of College success and the RTCs and academies are huge part of that helping prep our youth for the best..

 

If everybody that don't have RTCs can get their youth program going like your do at Garrett btw your looking out bro, along with many other successful HS teams if all sizes that'll keep helping raise the level across the state..

e gotta ensure our Youth programs are on point to promote a culture at all levels in a Wrestling program.

[FCFIGHTER170]

1 hour ago, MattM said:

Another point of depth that’s hasn’t been addressed yet is its effect on recruiting.  These top level recruits want to be in room with multiple practice partners that can push them at their level.  This is something that is going to be harder to find at most weight classes for none top tier programs.  When IU and/or PU can develop some consistent NCAA qualifiers and All American threats around a weight cluster those top recruits will become more interested in taking a shot at the school because the partners are there for them.  Until then they just have to hope those recruits will take a chance on the coaching staffs abilities and interested in staying connected with their home state.    Hopefully that development is occuring now and within a few more seasons these programs will have a better shot at garnering some more top recruit interest. 

Just read your post after I wrote mine and we are thinking exactly the same you just articulated it better Ppl say I have a way with words but I insist I've never fondled a dictionary

[TeamGarcia]

10 hours ago, nkraus said:

As far as Asa goes, that is pretty dang exciting he picked up that win like he did.  What are his accolades nationally, or at Fargo?  Maybe, he will be the next guy from Indiana to make a huge jump and get in the AA conversation in the next couple years.

 

So, what's everybody's opinion?  How do you know when you have a potential D1 AA recruit?  Is it FS/Greco experience?  Is it winning a state championship? 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Asa Garcia 

3x State Champ 

2018 Super 32 All-American 

2018 Flo Nationals All-American 

2017 NHSCA All-American 

Red Shirt Freshman at Indiana University 

[Disco]

18 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

Asa Garcia 

3x State Champ 

2018 Super 32 All-American 

2018 Flo Nationals All-American 

2017 NHSCA All-American 

Red Shirt Freshman at Indiana University 

The kind of men you want in your room if you are a coach.  

[TeamGarcia]

When Asa was going through the recruiting process. Every college coach we talked to did not give two cents what he done in HS wrestling in Indiana (State) . All they ask how is Grades, What you wanna do while in College ? What the school offers in that field ? More Grades questions. National stuff was congrats on your placement. Not one question asking about Fargo, if your going or not . They know what the athletes do in HS . 
Seems to me colleges focus on a needed weight they need to fill. If your beating high school kids on National level there good shot your beating them on College level . Kid gotta stay focus on his grades #1, #2 wrestling . 
 

sum it up 

1. Grades 

2. Grades 

3. Grades 

4. we see your kid here at this weight 

5. Grades 

6. Grades 

Edited January 22, 2021 by TeamGarcia

[FCFIGHTER170]

33 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

When Asa was going through the recruiting process. Every college coach we talked to did not give two cents what he done in HS wrestling in Indiana (State) . All they ask how is Grades, What you wanna do while in College ? What the school offers in that field ? More Grades questions. National stuff was congrats on your placement. Not one question asking about Fargo, if your going or not . They know what the athletes do in HS . 
Seems to me colleges focus on a needed weight they need to fill. If your beating high school kids on National level there good shot your beating them on College level . Kid gotta stay focus on his grades #1, #2 wrestling . 
 

sum it up 

1. Grades 

2. Grades 

3. Grades 

4. we see your kid here at this weight 

5. Grades 

6. Grades 

I concur.

[Disco]

From my personal situation being around great to elite college wrestlers, they all seem to be in the upper level on the IQ scores. Has to be something to that.  = success on the mat.  

[SWINfan]

4 hours ago, MattM said:

Another point of depth that’s hasn’t been addressed yet is its effect on recruiting.  These top level recruits want to be in room with multiple practice partners that can push them at their level.  This is something that is going to be harder to find at most weight classes for none top tier programs.  When IU and/or PU can develop some consistent NCAA qualifiers and All American threats around a weight cluster those top recruits will become more interested in taking a shot at the school because the partners are there for them.  Until then they just have to hope those recruits will take a chance on the coaching staffs abilities and interested in staying connected with their home state.    Hopefully that development is occuring now and within a few more seasons these programs will have a better shot at garnering some more top recruit interest. 

To further that. those programs that also have an RTC have a huge advantage. 

[Disco]

3 hours ago, SWINfan said:

To further that. those programs that also have an RTC have a huge advantage. 

Real big! Money for more coaches. The rich get richer.

[GG19]

8 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

When Asa was going through the recruiting process. Every college coach we talked to did not give two cents what he done in HS wrestling in Indiana (State) . All they ask how is Grades, What you wanna do while in College ? What the school offers in that field ? More Grades questions. National stuff was congrats on your placement. Not one question asking about Fargo, if your going or not . They know what the athletes do in HS . 
Seems to me colleges focus on a needed weight they need to fill. If your beating high school kids on National level there good shot your beating them on College level . Kid gotta stay focus on his grades #1, #2 wrestling . 
 

sum it up 

1. Grades 

2. Grades 

3. Grades 

4. we see your kid here at this weight 

5. Grades 

6. Grades 

I know that this may be a little off topic or maybe a question that shouldn’t be asked, but since it’s obvious Asa is at IU. May i ask what other schools tried to recruit him. Love the kid btw he’s definitely got a bright future and I believe will set the standard for future hoosiers!