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Is this the first domino to fall


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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29711237/iowa-cuts-men-gymnastics-men-tennis-men-women-swimming-diving

 

Is this the first domino to fall?  

 

I was told by a big ten coach that without football this season that it took $50 million out of their athletic budget.  Big football schools like Michigan, that school in Ohio, and Penn St will be over $100 milliion in lost revenue this year.  We. haven't even begun to think about what happens if NCAA Basketball isn't allowed to play this winter.

 

Iowa drops mens and women's swimming, men's gymnastics and men's tennis.  Can we all agree why Iowa didn't cut wrestling and that they are an outlier when it comes to revenue from wrestling?

 

What happens to Purdue, IU, Michigan St, Northwestern, Illinois, Maryland, etc when they have to look at this massive drop in revenue in the athletic department?

 

I was told that a group of Stanford alumni met and they were told they need to raise $30 million to keep wrestling.  If that's the case, I'm assuming there isn't much we can do now to help NCAA wrestling in the short term if there is massive cuts and athletic departments around the country begin to drop sports similar to what Iowa did yesterday.

 

It does raise the question to me of what are we doing now to better Indiana wrestling at the high school and youth level?  What are things we can do (or stop doing) to help grow all of wrestling?  

 

In the article posted, the Iowa administration said, ""A loss of this magnitude will take years to overcome," the letter said. "We have a plan to recover, but the journey will be challenging."

 

While I hope I'm way off base and totally looking at worst case scenario, but the future of NCAA Wrestling doesn't look great.  If Iowa is the first of many athletic departments that have to drop sports....I think we are naive if we don't realize that wrestling will be the first cut in most places.  

 

My question is what are we doing to grow the sport more than ever?  If pandemic ever ends, which we're all sure it will.  It will take years to build back athletic department revenue. 

 

I'm under the opinion that we need to grow the sport of wrestling now more than ever.  

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I actually spoke and spent some time with a member of the National wrestling coaches advisory committee this weekend. One point for D1 is that a school can’t drop below 16 sports and still be considered a D1 eligible school by the NCAA. With this said, sports with a small number of athletes may be safer than a sport with more athletes (cutting a bigger team will save more money). So.... if a D1 school has around 16 teams, the chances to drop wrestling are less. I’m not sure about other divisions.

 

The NCAA is taking the committee’s opinion under consideration. Below is a link to what is being recommended. I would say that this is the current plan for this season (for D1).

 

http://www.nwcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/NWCA_LG_Covid_Letter.pdf

Edited by Mattyb
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9 hours ago, Mattyb said:

I actually spoke and spent some time with a member of the National wrestling coaches advisory committee this weekend. One point for D1 is that a school can’t drop below 16 sports and still be considered a D1 eligible school by the NCAA. With this said, sports with a small number of athletes may be safer than a sport with more athletes (cutting a bigger team will save more money). So.... if a D1 school has around 16 teams, the chances to drop wrestling are less. I’m not sure about other divisions.

 

The NCAA is taking the committee’s opinion under consideration. Below is a link to what is being recommended. I would say that this is the current plan for this season (for D1).

 

http://www.nwcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/NWCA_LG_Covid_Letter.pdf

The NCAA gave Central Michigan a waiver for this rule just this summer.

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9 hours ago, Mattyb said:

One point for D1 is that a school can’t drop below 16 sports and still be considered a D1 eligible school by the NCAA.

I agree 100% and hope this holds though the winter.....

 

But will the NCAA start kicking Big 10 (or any other D1 athletic department) if they just can't afford 16 sports?  This could get tricky.

 

Just using Iowa as an example and totally making up my own numbers here.  

 

Iowa needs $100 million to run the athletic department with 16 sports.  They only have $60 million.  

 

NCAA says you must have 16 sports to stay D1.  

 

Again, just guessing that something has to give here.  Either NCAA starts kicking schools out that can't afford 16 sports or lower the 16 sports requirement. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ed Pendoski said:

I agree 100% and hope this holds though the winter.....

 

But will the NCAA start kicking Big 10 (or any other D1 athletic department) if they just can't afford 16 sports?  This could get tricky.

 

Just using Iowa as an example and totally making up my own numbers here.  

 

Iowa needs $100 million to run the athletic department with 16 sports.  They only have $60 million.  

 

NCAA says you must have 16 sports to stay D1.  

 

Again, just guessing that something has to give here.  Either NCAA starts kicking schools out that can't afford 16 sports or lower the 16 sports requirement. 

 

 

 

 

The thing is those minor sports they cut will only save $1 million, so not sure where the rest of that money can be made up.

 

Football and basketball, while money makers also have the most expenses. There is definitely some fat to trim in football budgets, but no school will do that to the cash cow. 

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This definitely a very slippery slope for college presidents to navigate at this time. But what they do or dont do can be easily justified by using the virus as the reason. That is the scary part to me.

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On 8/23/2020 at 3:57 PM, Disco said:

This definitely a very slippery slope for college presidents to navigate at this time. But what they do or dont do can be easily justified by using the virus as the reason. That is the scary part to me.

 

Yep. A lot can be covered under that umbrella. 

 

However, a large part of what happens to the schools/programs are in the hands of student athletes and the students in general. And, these are 18-20 year old kids that will do the things 18-20 year old kids do.

 

 

Edited by gsmith58
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3 hours ago, gsmith58 said:

 

Yep. A lot can be covered under that umbrella. 

 

However, a large part of what happens to the schools/programs are in the hands of student athletes and the students in general. And, these are 18-20 year old kids that will do the things 18-20 year old kids do.

 

 

no, that's not right.  its in the hands of politicians and officials worried about fall out with lawyers.  its not in the hands of 18-20 year olds who want to compete and live a normal life devoid of media and political opinions....

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7 hours ago, Clan Campbell said:

no, that's not right.  its in the hands of politicians and officials worried about fall out with lawyers.  its not in the hands of 18-20 year olds who want to compete and live a normal life devoid of media and political opinions....

We will have to disagree.

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13 hours ago, gsmith58 said:

 

Yep. A lot can be covered under that umbrella. 

 

However, a large part of what happens to the schools/programs are in the hands of student athletes and the students in general. And, these are 18-20 year old kids that will do the things 18-20 year old kids do.

 

 

Could you explain how the athletes are the reasons for programs to be dropped? I'm curious what the athletes at Iowa did to cause their programs to be dropped or at Stanford or at ODU for wrestling. 

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36 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Could you explain how the athletes are the reasons for programs to be dropped? I'm curious what the athletes at Iowa did to cause their programs to be dropped or at Stanford or at ODU for wrestling. 

 

Sure. Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I'm not making a political statement and certainly I'm not blaming athletes or students in general. 

 

I know you want your kids to wrestle, believe me I want my kid to wrestle. They've all worked incredibly hard. My post was an observation.
 
Having worked at an institution I am keenly aware, having watched colleagues lose their jobs, that no one wants to go totally online and/or shut down programs. Most schools like mine are largely driven by tuition dollars. Shutting down would simply be a matter of public health.
 
I will agree that students just want normal and who in their right mind would blame them. They're kids. That's what they are supposed to do. And, unfortunately, I think ultimately that is what they are going to do.
 
I don't believe you can stop an 18 years old from being an 18 year old. And, in those circumstances you aren't going to stop an infectious virus from being an infectious virus. I have a difficult time seeing how that has anything to do with officials, lawsuits, or politics.
 
I can't even begin to tell you how much we've done to try and protect and provide a normal and safe environment for our students, faculty, and staff. That can all go out the window with 'one' on or off-campus event. How and where do universities safely quarantine a large group of infected students? 
 
We all want normal, but that's isn't where we are.
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7 minutes ago, gsmith58 said:

 

Sure. Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I'm not making a political statement and certainly I'm not blaming athletes or students in general. 

 

I know you want your kids to wrestle, believe me I want my kid to wrestle. They've all worked incredibly hard. My post was an observation.
 
Having worked at an institution I am keenly aware, having watched colleagues lose their jobs, that no one wants to go totally online and/or shut down programs. Most schools like mine are largely driven by tuition dollars. Shutting down would simply be a matter of public health.
 
I will agree that students just want normal and who in their right mind would blame them. They're kids. That's what they are supposed to do. And, unfortunately, I think ultimately that is what they are going to do.
 
I don't believe you can stop an 18 years old from being an 18 year old. And, in those circumstances you aren't going to stop an infectious virus from being an infectious virus. I have a difficult time seeing how that has anything to do with officials, lawsuits, or politics.
 
I can't even begin to tell you how much we've done to try and protect and provide a normal and safe environment for our students, faculty, and staff. That can all go out the window with 'one' on or off-campus event. How and where do universities safely quarantine a large group of infected students? 
 
We all want normal, but that's isn't where we are.

I fully understand everything you have said, especially the large gatherings we are starting to see.

 

However, I'm not sure I comprehend how these kids being kids will lead to programs being terminated. Are you basically saying that the gathering will lead to increased cases and thus a school being closed down to virtual learning, then that leading to sports being suspended or terminated? 

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8 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I fully understand everything you have said, especially the large gatherings we are starting to see.

 

However, I'm not sure I comprehend how these kids being kids will lead to programs being terminated. Are you basically saying that the gathering will lead to increased cases and thus a school being closed down to virtual learning, then that leading to sports being suspended or terminated? 

 

Yes. I should have made it clear. I'm simply pointing out the budget constraints that many schools are under. I'm not justifying what any one school does or doesn't do under those constraints.

 

I don't like it anymore than anyone here. And, I would agree that these circumstances can provide cover for decisions that have nothing to do with a virus.

Edited by gsmith58
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4 hours ago, gsmith58 said:

 

Yes. I should have made it clear. I'm simply pointing out the budget constraints that many schools are under. I'm not justifying what any one school does or doesn't do under those constraints.

 

I don't like it anymore than anyone here. And, I would agree that these circumstances can provide cover for decisions that have nothing to do with a virus.

That makes sense. I feel schools that have thought about terminating programs have the perfect opportunity to do so at this time. While it might be 25% true, it's 75% true that they've been looking for the excuse for a while. All sports outside of football and basketball are ripe for the picking. We will see different looking athletic programs real soon and not in a good way. They will keep feeding the cash cows(football and basketball), while starving or cutting off the rest of the programs instead of what they should do and look at the expenses from the big sports. 

 

The NCAA really needs to look at if a school really needs 85 scholarships for football. They could easily cut 20 scholarships and still have 3 deep on each side of the ball covered. However, the NCAA won't do that since football is a cash cow.

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I don’t think we’ll ever get to the point where we lose football or basketball on the grand scale they are, but in the instance that we do, particularly at the high school/prep level, this could get BAD, and I mean really bad. It would be AAU on steroids. If the NCAA drops enough wrestling programs (last I checked, there were only 61 Division I programs), then does the NWCA step in and sanction a championship? If that happens on the high school level where the IHSAA decides to cancel, does the ISWA step in and sanction a championship? I know since March 15, Division I coaches have been on a recruiting ban and have been unable to travel or practice with their teams on school grounds. If all sports moved to club sports, I just imagine how bad it could be. I know football would have to create leagues around the state for athletes to play in, similar to the youth level, and I imagine the same for other sports. So, following the examples that have already been set, wrestling would end up costing A LOT more to participate in, and it would ruin the catch of a lot of guys. Some guys’ catch is that they went to EMD, PM, or Penn; schools with tough programs that create wrestling stars, but if it’s all clubs, then the catch or appeal is lost on certain wrestlers if they don’t go to a specific club.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The world will move on, wrestling will continue, will it be different? Very good chance. But at the end of the day we are in a Pandemic, health and safety of others should be a top priority. It will find a way and we as a community can bounce back. But first we need to except that it will never be "normal" again. 

The biggest thing I read out of this is cost to run the program. I find it amazing how expensive it is to run some of these sports. The money is there but will the people getting it be willing to share? 

 

This is my dumb 32 year old single guy with cats opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

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