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So with a cancellation of ncaa's what will they do with people's year of eligibility? Do you think they may bring it back as a summer sport? I don't have any answers just a lot of questions...

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Edited by formercollegekid
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Now what are we going to watch while were cooped up in our quarantined sites?   I only can watch so many episodes of the office.

 

How am I going to get my sports fix?  Im going to need psychological help. This is depressing

 

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34 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Now what are we going to watch while were cooped up in our quarantined sites?   I only can watch so many episodes of the office.

 

How am I going to get my sports fix?  Im going to need psychological help. This is depressing

 

@ontherise219 and I are going to do marathon episodes of Gorilla Radio!

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finish him mortal kombat GIF
^^^^This is me destroying Seth Gross BTW . ^^^^ 

 

Guess we can pick our imaginary NCAA picks now of what could of been now . Lets see here...... 
 

125- Spencer Lee (could of been a 3x like @3xStateChamp)

133- my Words with Friends friend that I destroy, Seth Gross . 

141- Indiana own Nick Lee 

149- Lugo 

157- Deakin 

165- The Bull 
174- Mark Hall 

184- My Maryland friend that’s Family is good as gold Freshman Phenom Aaron Brooks 

197- Moore, kid on a mission ! 
Hwt- Indiana own Parris 

 

Edited by TeamGarcia
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4 hours ago, formercollegekid said:

So with a cancellation of ncaa's what will they do with people's year of eligibility? Do you think they may bring it back as a summer sport? I don't have any answers just a lot of questions...

20200312_171126.thumb.jpg.60e7a42b0edbd78ebe05c366476cb7d5.jpg
 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, wrestlenewbie said:

 

 

There is a lot to "work" out there.

1. How do scholarships work? Most schools were planning on having those guys on scholarship. 
2. Who exactly will get them?
3. What would happen to those that were planning on entering the lineup next year? 

This would also have to be for ALL sports which with #1 could be a big scholarship hit and cost the universities a lot of money.

 

Honestly, i think it would be more likely they somehow make NCAA's in May than they give 330 wrestlers extra years.

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5 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

There is a lot to "work" out there.

1. How do scholarships work? Most schools were planning on having those guys on scholarship. 
2. Who exactly will get them?
3. What would happen to those that were planning on entering the lineup next year? 

This would also have to be for ALL sports which with #1 could be a big scholarship hit and cost the universities a lot of money.

 

Honestly, i think it would be more likely they somehow make NCAA's in May than they give 330 wrestlers extra years.

 

I feel like the scholarship issue is actually minor. The 9.9 limit is an artificial NCAA limit that could easily be raised to some other artificial limit. The coaches have been asking for that limit to be raised for years. As for affordability based on the ever growing size of school endowments I suspect that most schools could afford it. And if they choose not to offer more then the transfer portal is open.

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13 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

There is a lot to "work" out there.

1. How do scholarships work? Most schools were planning on having those guys on scholarship. 
2. Who exactly will get them?
3. What would happen to those that were planning on entering the lineup next year? 

This would also have to be for ALL sports which with #1 could be a big scholarship hit and cost the universities a lot of money.

 

Honestly, i think it would be more likely they somehow make NCAA's in May than they give 330 wrestlers extra years.

That’s what I want really bad. If this all clears up early May, why not take 3 days to settle this? 

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7 minutes ago, wrestlenewbie said:

 

I feel like the scholarship issue is actually minor. The 9.9 limit is an artificial NCAA limit that could easily be raised to some other artificial limit. The coaches have been asking for that limit to be raised for years. As for affordability based on the ever growing size of school endowments I suspect that most schools could afford it. And if they choose not to offer more then the transfer portal is open.

The transfer portal will go crazy if they allot an extra year.

I don't have much faith in the NCAA making good decisions that affect the kids. They seem to only care about $$$.

I'm not sure where I personally stand on the kids getting an extra year. 

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1 minute ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The transfer portal will go crazy if they allot an extra year.

I don't have much faith in the NCAA making good decisions that affect the kids. They seem to only care about $$$.

I'm not sure where I personally stand on the kids getting an extra year. 

 

Could not agree more on NCAA cynicism.

 

The guys who get stuck behind returning wrestlers are in an awkward situation. Think Joe Lee who waited 2 years for Vincenzo Joseph to graduate. And now might need to wait another.

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What about all of the people cutting hard for NCAAs. They're gonna be expected to have limited practices due to not being able to practice for a lot of them, and after almost two months of no competition, have to make weight again. This goes for NCAAs and also state high school tournaments being cancelled. I wrestled 138 at state and can guarantee you I would not be making weight for 138 if I had to wrestle next week. I realize college athletes might have another level of commitment and might stay as diligent as they can to maintaining weight, but with a lot of colleges likely not being able to hold practices, how would many of the athletes dropping a decent amount of weight make weight without nearly killing themselves and affecting their wrestling? This COVID-19 stuff is super wack.

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I'm not sure all the seniors would even want another year.  They were prepared to finish off their college careers and graduate.  It doesn't seem very appealing to have to remain in school, train another full year, keep cutting weight, and battle through another season.  And a few may just want to move on to the Olympic styles.

 

Postponing until May would be cool for fans, but they are probably not going to be able to practice much at all with the campuses shut down.  It would be difficult to make weight and wrestle their best with that much time off.  It's really a no-win scenario.

 

Maybe they could simply take the top 8 seeds (or 10) and call them all All-Americans.  No places, no champs, just "All-Americans".  It would suck for the ones who want to be national champs, but for guys like Lydy who have improved each year to get to this point and earned a top 8 seeding based on set criteria, they would at least get that All-American status forever.  Guys like Red and Lee could still become 4-time All-Americans.  Just a thought.

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I don't know about that, that means all Kaleb Young had to do was show up at Big Tens to become an All-American. There are definitely some 9, 10, 11, 12, maybe even lower seeds that deserve to be in that All-American status, but wrestled a bad conference tournament. Imagine how much differently some of these conference matches might have went if some of them knew an All-American status was on the line, if this was their last tournament of the season?

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14 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

There is a lot to "work" out there.

1. How do scholarships work? Most schools were planning on having those guys on scholarship. 
2. Who exactly will get them?
3. What would happen to those that were planning on entering the lineup next year? 

This would also have to be for ALL sports which with #1 could be a big scholarship hit and cost the universities a lot of money.

 

Honestly, i think it would be more likely they somehow make NCAA's in May than they give 330 wrestlers extra years.

 

These are all very good questions. As someone who works (and has worked for a couple) major institutions and has been involved with student-athletes (male and female) in revenue generating (which is deceptive- since the NCAA not the institutions generate most of the revenue) and "non-revenue generating sports" it would be extremely unlikely, unless the NCAA eats the cost - which they won't - that they would grant another year of eligibility. 

 

I can tell you based on the conversations I have had with some people here at ASU that you are on the money in suggesting that it is more likely to hold the NCAA's in May and that is going to be suggested. Also, as far as scholarships are concerned universities package them uniquely due to the fact student-athletes do not have to meet the same standards of non-student athletes for academic merit based scholarships (or admission to the university). Therefore, an above average academic student athlete can get an academic scholarship that has more dollars than a non-student athlete. Additionally, grants can be packaged for any student, athlete and non-athlete, in unique ways. 

 

Also, (I realize Y2 did not bring this up but someone else did) scholarship allotments are seemingly arbitrary but that is far from reality. Title IX has huge implications on scholarship allotments. There must be an equal number of male and female athletes on campus. Additionally, at a micro-level if you breakdown what goes into a scholarship (housing, food, special tutoring services, athletic academic advisers, travel, dietitians, trainers, stipend, and so on) each scholarship granted in the PAC 12 equates to roughly $130,000 per student - I know the SEC equates to roughly $145,000 per scholarship. Therefore, by adding 5 wrestling scholarships to cover the additional year in just wrestling it is over a million dollars of cost incurred by the school and not the NCAA and I can promise you MOST universities cannot afford that additional cost. And per federal regulations you cannot simply borrow from the endowment since athletics is required by law to function as an auxiliary service - meaning they should run off of profit earned - since it is not accessible to all students and does not benefit all students. Sadly, most athletic programs in the USA do not operate in the black at a macro-level it may seem to be true but on a micro-level that is not a reality. For all of these reasons (and more) I would be glad to answer questions from an administrative level, if possible, it is extremely unlikely they grant a 5th year but universities will propose a later tournament date once the hysteria settles. 

Edited by SunDevils
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On 3/13/2020 at 12:13 PM, SunDevils said:

 

These are all very good questions. As someone who works (and has worked for a couple) major institutions and has been involved with student-athletes (male and female) in revenue generating (which is deceptive- since the NCAA not the institutions generate most of the revenue) and "non-revenue generating sports" it would be extremely unlikely, unless the NCAA eats the cost - which they won't - that they would grant another year of eligibility. 

 

I can tell you based on the conversations I have had with some people here at ASU that you are on the money in suggesting that it is more likely to hold the NCAA's in May and that is going to be suggested. Also, as far as scholarships are concerned universities package them uniquely due to the fact student-athletes do not have to meet the same standards of non-student athletes for academic merit based scholarships (or admission to the university). Therefore, an above average academic student athlete can get an academic scholarship that has more dollars than a non-student athlete. Additionally, grants can be packaged for any student, athlete and non-athlete, in unique ways. 

 

Also, (I realize Y2 did not bring this up but someone else did) scholarship allotments are seemingly arbitrary but that is far from reality. Title IX has huge implications on scholarship allotments. There must be an equal number of male and female athletes on campus. Additionally, at a micro-level if you breakdown what goes into a scholarship (housing, food, special tutoring services, athletic academic advisers, travel, dietitians, trainers, stipend, and so on) each scholarship granted in the PAC 12 equates to roughly $130,000 per student - I know the SEC equates to roughly $145,000 per scholarship. Therefore, by adding 5 wrestling scholarships to cover the additional year in just wrestling it is over a million dollars of cost incurred by the school and not the NCAA and I can promise you MOST universities cannot afford that additional cost. And per federal regulations you cannot simply borrow from the endowment since athletics is required by law to function as an auxiliary service - meaning they should run off of profit earned - since it is not accessible to all students and does not benefit all students. Sadly, most athletic programs in the USA do not operate in the black at a macro-level it may seem to be true but on a micro-level that is not a reality. For all of these reasons (and more) I would be glad to answer questions from an administrative level, if possible, it is extremely unlikely they grant a 5th year but universities will propose a later tournament date once the hysteria settles. 

Thanks for the insight..I think it's a absolute must that they have a rescheduled tournament.

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On 3/13/2020 at 11:13 AM, SunDevils said:

 

These are all very good questions. As someone who works (and has worked for a couple) major institutions and has been involved with student-athletes (male and female) in revenue generating (which is deceptive- since the NCAA not the institutions generate most of the revenue) and "non-revenue generating sports" it would be extremely unlikely, unless the NCAA eats the cost - which they won't - that they would grant another year of eligibility. 

 

I can tell you based on the conversations I have had with some people here at ASU that you are on the money in suggesting that it is more likely to hold the NCAA's in May and that is going to be suggested. Also, as far as scholarships are concerned universities package them uniquely due to the fact student-athletes do not have to meet the same standards of non-student athletes for academic merit based scholarships (or admission to the university). Therefore, an above average academic student athlete can get an academic scholarship that has more dollars than a non-student athlete. Additionally, grants can be packaged for any student, athlete and non-athlete, in unique ways. 

 

Also, (I realize Y2 did not bring this up but someone else did) scholarship allotments are seemingly arbitrary but that is far from reality. Title IX has huge implications on scholarship allotments. There must be an equal number of male and female athletes on campus. Additionally, at a micro-level if you breakdown what goes into a scholarship (housing, food, special tutoring services, athletic academic advisers, travel, dietitians, trainers, stipend, and so on) each scholarship granted in the PAC 12 equates to roughly $130,000 per student - I know the SEC equates to roughly $145,000 per scholarship. Therefore, by adding 5 wrestling scholarships to cover the additional year in just wrestling it is over a million dollars of cost incurred by the school and not the NCAA and I can promise you MOST universities cannot afford that additional cost. And per federal regulations you cannot simply borrow from the endowment since athletics is required by law to function as an auxiliary service - meaning they should run off of profit earned - since it is not accessible to all students and does not benefit all students. Sadly, most athletic programs in the USA do not operate in the black at a macro-level it may seem to be true but on a micro-level that is not a reality. For all of these reasons (and more) I would be glad to answer questions from an administrative level, if possible, it is extremely unlikely they grant a 5th year but universities will propose a later tournament date once the hysteria settles. 

 

Thank you for the information. It is good to have informed content.

 

I was the one who commented on scholarship limits. Though I called them artificial rather than arbitrary. And what you describe (the impact of Title IX) is certainly artificial. I agree this is a very complex situation combined with a complex rule set. I am saying the rule set can change.

 

Of course, this is so much more broadly reaching than just wrestling.  All other sports are impacted and would need to be considered in the equation. I assume that the people making these decisions will attempt to be creative in finding a solution. I hope the solution will involve some level of opportunity for the affected athletes, but I acknowledge that may not be possible. 

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3 hours ago, wrestlenewbie said:

 

Thank you for the information. It is good to have informed content.

 

I was the one who commented on scholarship limits. Though I called them artificial rather than arbitrary. And what you describe (the impact of Title IX) is certainly artificial. I agree this is a very complex situation combined with a complex rule set. I am saying the rule set can change.

 

Of course, this is so much more broadly reaching than just wrestling.  All other sports are impacted and would need to be considered in the equation. I assume that the people making these decisions will attempt to be creative in finding a solution. I hope the solution will involve some level of opportunity for the affected athletes, but I acknowledge that may not be possible. 

 

Unless the NCAA eats the cost and does not burden the academic institutions then the rule set will not change. And since borrowing from the endowment is absolutely not an option then athletic departments would be left scrambling to find some form of alternative funding.

 

Generally speaking you are correct in stating the number of scholarships allowed set forth by Title IX is artificial. However, that artificial number is what keeps some programs from discontinuing. Schools like Akron would not be able to compete with the likes of Ohio State. Additionally, schools like Arizona State would not be able to compete with USC if not for the current scholarship restrictions set forth by Title IX. In fact, many schools in the Big Ten, PAC 12, SEC, and so on would not be able to compete or have athletics if it were not for profit sharing within conferences. Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, and Wisconsin football absolutely help subsidize the costs of Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Rutgers,and Illinois football.

 

I think the NCAA should have postponed, not cancelled the tournaments. And unless the NCAA bears the burden of costs then it would be remarkable if athletes were granted an additional year or scholarship allotments were increased.

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I don't know about you guys, but this virus stuff has got to end. No sports of any kind on tv, I actually had to talk to my wife this weekend, When will the insanity end.....

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On 3/12/2020 at 11:48 PM, TysonNisley said:

 Imagine how much differently some of these conference matches might have went if some of them knew an All-American status was on the line, if this was their last tournament of the season?

The point is , as I stated in the college section of this forum, a wrestler has to learn and feel out the guy he’s wrestling in a match.sometimes when he knows he will face a wrestler multiple times in a season.Its not a good thing to show all of your cards when the stakes aren’t as high. Sometimes you win those and sometimes you don’t have the opportunity to. Especially when the two are even ,in talent and abilities. And going undefeated in a season is a goal but so few ever achieve, as is winning a national championship. So yes you are exactly right, the matches would have gone differently if they knew AA status was on the line. 

 

On 3/12/2020 at 11:28 PM, GrecoCoach said:

IMaybe they could simply take the top 8 seeds (or 10) and call them all All-Americans.  No places, no champs, just "All-Americans".  It would suck for the ones who want to be national champs, but for guys like Lydy who have improved each year to get to this point and earned a top 8 seeding based on set criteria, they would at least get that All-American status forever.  Guys like Red and Lee could still become 4-time All-Americans.  Just a thought.

Not a fair plan for anyone involved. Although is see your pain for all the wrestlers. 

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I wonder how much the wrestlers care about the historic titles like 4 time AA. After all its not like any of them failed to AA this year. There is a difference between 3 time AA that wrestled 4 years and got beat one of them and 3 time AA that didn't.

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On 3/17/2020 at 10:16 AM, wrestlenewbie said:

I wonder how much the wrestlers care about the historic titles like 4 time AA. After all its not like any of them failed to AA this year. There is a difference between 3 time AA that wrestled 4 years and got beat one of them and 3 time AA that didn't.

I agree, and I think they all dream about AA status. It’s the big prize for most of not the main one. 

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