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State tournament class statistics to not necessarily incite class wrestling discussion


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Two things: one this wasn’t supposed to be about class wrestling(failed); two, has anyone ever taken the time to actually poll the kids? I doubt it. I’m a competitor so I want the chance to compete against everyone, I also have seen what class basketball has done to that sport. If that happens to wrestling, I want no part of it! Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

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In all fairness....I think Silas has solidified himself as a pretty special talent regardless of school size.  So with all do respect, I genuinely feel to draw a question about why aren’t more 1A or 2

This whole thread and group of replies has became ridiculous.  I feel that there's a lot of common sense left out of many statements made in this thread.   We just had a kid become a two tim

Let me just throw in here...   TEAM class wrestling = YES INDIVIDUAL class wrestling = NO   How in the wide world of sports did Silas Allred possibly manage to compete at the

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7 minutes ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

Two things: one this wasn’t supposed to be about class wrestling(failed); two, has anyone ever taken the time to actually poll the kids? I doubt it. I’m a competitor so I want the chance to compete against everyone, I also have seen what class basketball has done to that sport. If that happens to wrestling, I want no part of it! Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

Our job as the adults is not to give the kids what they want, it’s to give them what’s best for them. That statement is not intended to be slanted either direction. If single class is best for them, then that’s why we should do it. 

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1 minute ago, Galagore said:

Our job as the adults is not to give the kids what they want, it’s to give them what’s best for them. That statement is not intended to be slanted either direction. If single class is best for them, then that’s why we should do it. 

Well it’s not about giving as many athletes a trophy as possible. Youth sports is really about teaching life skills.  Hard work, dedication, responsibility and dependability. Why is it sports we are concerned about being classed. In real world you have to compete against everyone for academic scholarships and jobs.

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4 hours ago, CFleshman said:

I believe you are very naive about the number 2 kids at MD Cathedral  Brownsburg Carmel  Crown Point Penn and alot of others . They have kids that would beat most small school starters. 


Freeman, Baumann and Fitts of MD are good recent examples of what CFleshman is saying. They all wrestled one year of JV. 

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22 minutes ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

Well it’s not about giving as many athletes a trophy as possible. Youth sports is really about teaching life skills.  Hard work, dedication, responsibility and dependability. Why is it sports we are concerned about being classed. In real world you have to compete against everyone for academic scholarships and jobs.

So a kid that wins a state title in classed Ohio can't learn the same values and life skills as a kid in single class Indiana? I find that really hard to believe.

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Just now, Y2CJ41 said:

So a kid that wins a state title in classed Ohio can't learn the same values and life skills as a kid in single class Indiana? I find that really hard to believe.

As always you take everything out of context, twist it around to fit your narrative. I never said that and you know it! You are the one that is saying small schools can’t compete. So I guess a really smart kid at a small school isn’t as smart as a smart kid at a really big school. Is that what you are saying Joe?

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Just now, RASSLER4LIFE said:

As always you take everything out of context, twist it around to fit your narrative. I never said that and you know it! You are the one that is saying small schools can’t compete. So I guess a really smart kid at a small school isn’t as smart as a smart kid at a really big school. Is that what you are saying Joe?

Thanks for answering my question. When you answer mine, I'll gladly answer your question.

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Just now, Y2CJ41 said:

Thanks for answering my question. When you answer mine, I'll gladly answer your question.

I did answer, for a smart guy you sure like to play coy. We’ve been around this a time or three so I believe you know how I feel about classed wrestling as an individual sport. I like classed as a team because I do believe a smaller school has difficulties finding 14 athletes comparable to a larger school. That’s not to say that as individuals smaller schools can’t compete at a high level. 

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10 hours ago, SIACfan said:

 

Stay about the same.

 

Yes, there would be the occasional kid who can't break into the varsity lineup at a big school who might actually be good enough to qualify for state. But that would be the extreme exception not the rule. And who says that this kid would knock a small school kid from qualifying? Maybe he would simply knock a kid from a different large school out.

 

I think you are confusing small school kids who are multiyear letterman at their small school but wouldn't be able to break into a large school varsity lineup with the small school state qualifiers. Those kids would be state qualifiers no matter what school they attended.

You have no clue what you’re saying. My son’s freshman year of HS, we had 5 JV kids that finished in the top 3 of ISWA folk style state beating 9 state placers in the process. 
 

Your logic is making the case for a classed tournament. 

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2 hours ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

Well it’s not about giving as many athletes a trophy as possible. Youth sports is really about teaching life skills.  Hard work, dedication, responsibility and dependability. Why is it sports we are concerned about being classed. In real world you have to compete against everyone for academic scholarships and jobs.

 

For someone who claims to have words put into their mouths, that is quite a doozy. But to your point, what about sports not being classed because life is not classed: Then why do we have different tax brackets for different levels of income? Why are some scholarships/grants/aid awarded based on financial need?

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Do we feel as though the training offered (partners, coaching, weightlifting  and nutrition etc;) at all the smaller schools is equal to the training that larger schools can offer?

 

I think the Crux of the argument relies on whether everyone is on a level playing field or not and I think anyone whose ever been to both can answer this pretty quickly. Interested in the Thoughts here.

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So lets say Prairie Heights wrestling  Carmel in a dual meet isn't fair. But Prairie Heights being in the same Sectional is ok. A smart kid at a small school is above average at a large school. Class team sports has brought alot of small communities together. 

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37 minutes ago, Galagore said:

 

For someone who claims to have words put into their mouths, that is quite a doozy. But to your point, what about sports not being classed because life is not classed: Then why do we have different tax brackets for different levels of income? Why are some scholarships/grants/aid awarded based on financial need?

I put words in your mouth? I never once said that an athlete in a classed sports system wouldn’t learn the lessons taught by youth sports! I just stated that youth sports were to teach life lessons. Even if I am awarded scholarships without my hard work it will end up fruitless. Chances are there are going to be more elite athletes at bigger schools that doesn’t mean you can’t defy the odds, I like being considered the underdog because when I win I get that extra satisfaction of defying the odds. Taxes are based after the fact of getting a career and I don’t agree with our tax system but that’s a different story. I wrestled at a small school, coached at a small school and we had great success during that tenure, had sons wrestle at both small and big schools and both were very successful in the state tournament some within the last couple years. Still not sure what your first statement is about but whatever.

Edited by RASSLER4LIFE
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17 minutes ago, CFleshman said:

So lets say Prairie Heights wrestling  Carmel in a dual meet isn't fair. But Prairie Heights being in the same Sectional is ok. A smart kid at a small school is above average at a large school. Class team sports has brought alot of small communities together. 

Not sure what point you are trying to make, but I'll take Levitz over the Carmel 160 every time. 

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3 hours ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

Well it’s not about giving as many athletes a trophy as possible. Youth sports is really about teaching life skills.  Hard work, dedication, responsibility and dependability. Why is it sports we are concerned about being classed. In real world you have to compete against everyone for academic scholarships and jobs.

This is the part I did not say, but you seem to attribute to me. No big deal if you were just speaking generally, then misunderstanding. Either way, we'll move on.

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4 minutes ago, Galagore said:

This is the part I did not say, but you seem to attribute to me. No big deal if you were just speaking generally, then misunderstanding. Either way, we'll move on.

Misunderstanding, wasn’t directed towards you but just classed sports in general. Just want the opportunity to compete against the best and by not having class wrestling that guarantees it. 

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So one out of 14 is good In your mind. That is what's best for the team than right? I would have taken Levi Leffers over most 220 pounders also. That was an exceptional group for 3 years. 20 plus years to have something special like that. Small schools can have success. Unfortunately just not very often.

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28 minutes ago, DrunkJoeNamath said:

For those of you just joining us, a quick summary....

 

 

image.gif.108e8057eacbe86fbd0e7466d1090705.gif

 

 

Click, Spin, Click, Spin, Click, Spin 

 

Wooooooo...... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

It’s the Thread Show Stopper, Faster  Trigger Finger East or West of the Mississippi... Spit !
Pistol Pete  

 

Pistol just make this simple & clear as Pistol looking at Pistols shotguns in the mirror, Click, Click... getting ready to cheer on Pistols Oklahoma State Cowboys Wrestlers for the Big 12 Conference Championships . 
 

@DrunkJoeNamath bring out fake guns, Pistol recommends the real deal Holyfield of Guns pointing . football power GIF
 

You see .... Pistol ain’t scurd to pull the trigger ! Anywhere, Anytime .  That’s how Pistol would give a quick summary of what’s going on here . 
 

Woooooooo..... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

Pistol Pete 
 

 

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1 hour ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

Misunderstanding, wasn’t directed towards you but just classed sports in general. Just want the opportunity to compete against the best and by not having class wrestling that guarantees it. 

 

If that's a huge concern with two classes, there's always Fargo, Flo Nationals VA Beach, Folkstyle state, etc.

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This whole thread and group of replies has became ridiculous.  I feel that there's a lot of common sense left out of many statements made in this thread.

 

We just had a kid become a two time finalist from Garrett.  Our athlete was naturally gifted, but also worked his tail off.  Our kid went to RTC's, Fargo, Camps, Private sessions with coaches, and spent extra time in the weight room.  He did phenomenal and had a phenomenal career.  He did amazing and will have a phenomenal college career and life!

 

All that being said...we are not a big school...he was the exception to the rule...he went above and beyond the requirements to be elite.  I'm sure other small school kids that were elite did the same.  If we compare the "average athlete at a "Big School" compared to the "average athlete at a small school," we're going to find at the root they're very much the same.  But, when we dig deeper, we're going to find that the athlete at the larger school has more training partners, more opportunities, and generally speaking, pretty good coaching.  There's good coaching at smaller schools for sure, and I won't contest that.  However, if I were able to get every athlete at Garrett to wrestle, I'm pretty sure I still couldn't produce as many state champs as the "elite, bigger, better schools."  Regardless, none of that bothers me.  I love my community and I relish the underdog role and I feel that we can make some great things happen.   

 

With all that being said, I prefer the team state series to be classed, but that's a no brainer.  If our state was to ever go to an individual class system, I'd prefer we went to a maximum of a 2 class system. 

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10 hours ago, 3xStateChamp said:

Click, Spin, Click, Spin, Click, Spin 

 

Wooooooo...... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

It’s the Thread Show Stopper, Faster  Trigger Finger East or West of the Mississippi... Spit !
Pistol Pete  

 

Pistol just make this simple & clear as Pistol looking at Pistols shotguns in the mirror, Click, Click... getting ready to cheer on Pistols Oklahoma State Cowboys Wrestlers for the Big 12 Conference Championships . 
 

@DrunkJoeNamath bring out fake guns, Pistol recommends the real deal Holyfield of Guns pointing . football power GIF
 

You see .... Pistol ain’t scurd to pull the trigger ! Anywhere, Anytime .  That’s how Pistol would give a quick summary of what’s going on here . 
 

Woooooooo..... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

Pistol Pete 
 

 


image.gif.c05e03f41f955d6a26928aaaa68ef4de.gif

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10 hours ago, CFleshman said:

So one out of 14 is good In your mind. That is what's best for the team than right?

 

I don't believe anyone has argued the team aspect except those on the small school side of the debate. I have repeatedly said that small school teams are clearly at a disadvantage.

 

The entire time my only point has been that the individual athlete at a large school does not have an advantage over the individual at the small school. I actually recognize that there are some possible advantages but I don't feel they are nearly as big as many of the small school debaters want to believe. The percentages seem to bear this out.

 

I'm actually not as against classing the tournament as my comments in this thread might lead one to believe, but I simply like the fact that our tournament crowns a single champ at each weight class. I personally feel this is what makes our tournament great, and obviously this would be lost if/when the tournament is classed.

Edited by SIACfan
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10 hours ago, 3xStateChamp said:

Click, Spin, Click, Spin, Click, Spin 

 

Wooooooo...... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

It’s the Thread Show Stopper, Faster  Trigger Finger East or West of the Mississippi... Spit !
Pistol Pete  

 

Pistol just make this simple & clear as Pistol looking at Pistols shotguns in the mirror, Click, Click... getting ready to cheer on Pistols Oklahoma State Cowboys Wrestlers for the Big 12 Conference Championships . 
 

@DrunkJoeNamath bring out fake guns, Pistol recommends the real deal Holyfield of Guns pointing . football power GIF
 

You see .... Pistol ain’t scurd to pull the trigger ! Anywhere, Anytime .  That’s how Pistol would give a quick summary of what’s going on here . 
 

Woooooooo..... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! 
 

Pistol Pete 
 

 

The greatest sports program of all time, the Oklahoma State Cowboys wrestling program.  No program can top their history.   Dickie V would say national Championship city.   They're the Grateful Dead of wrestling.  Jerry Garcia was an OSU and he had a big OSU hat.    There program is almost as good as the UCLA Bruins basketball program,  the  best program in the history of Western Civilization. 

 

Anyway speaking of guns,  Bill sometimes deviates from his grateful dead peace loving ways, and goes big on guns.   I like shooting my Old Painless.

Old Painless.jpg

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11 hours ago, Coach Brobst said:

Do we feel as though the training offered (partners, coaching, weightlifting  and nutrition etc;) at all the smaller schools is equal to the training that larger schools can offer?

 

I think the Crux of the argument relies on whether everyone is on a level playing field or not and I think anyone whose ever been to both can answer this pretty quickly. Interested in the Thoughts here.

 

So all small schools have poor coaches? This is news to me. Sorry but I disagree. I believe there are large & small schools that have very good coaching staffs, just as there are both large & small schools that have less than stellar staffs. This is an advantage at some schools but to say it is divided by school size is presumptuous & even offensive, IMO.

 

And why exactly is weightlifting & nutrition a large school advantage? Does having more/newer equipment an advantage? Does having a nicer facility to practice in an advantage? I think that it really isn't. But even if it is, it is only very slightly.

 

Having better practice partners/teammates to push you is one I'll concede.

 

For me the crux of the debate is whether or not each individual is on a level playing field, but several of the small school guys have often reverted back to the school/team portion of the issue. FYI, that is not what I have been debating.

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