Jump to content

Injury Defaults


60yearold120lbs

Recommended Posts

I know some people may disagree with this idea, but I strongly believe that if someone injury defaults out of a match they shouldn't wrestle the rest of the day. What are your takes on this idea? My idea is that if they really are hurt that severely that they shouldn't not be able to compete, but if they are not hurt bad enough they can finish the match and win. It softens the sport by allowing a cheap injury default.

 

If they changed the rules they could give a concussion protocol time which allows wrestlers to get a concussion protocol not wasting injury time or blood time. This way trainers don't just say "no you hit your head so you're done." Give me your opinions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to see any wrestler injured, but here is my thoughts on the matter. Was the injury caused on an illegal move? If yes, and that wrestler injury defaults out of that match but can wrestle later after taking a Tylenol or something of that nature I’m fine with it, I’d rather see a match rather than a forfeit at state. If something is broke then I totally agree with the wrestler not going, but if something is strained and he can wrestle through it later then so be it. It happened with my brother and Tyler Willis in the finals in 2010. Willis was injured on an illegal move in the semis, you could see he was in a lot of pain and couldn’t continue. So Willis injury defaulted and won the match due to the illegal move. He went on to wrestle in the finals against my brother. He wasn’t himself for sure, but I commend him for going out there and trying, and fighting through the pain. I’d HATE to see a match forfeited under the lights.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RaiderColfax said:

I hate to see any wrestler injured, but here is my thoughts on the matter. Was the injury caused on an illegal move? If yes, and that wrestler injury defaults out of that match but can wrestle later after taking a Tylenol or something of that nature I’m fine with it, I’d rather see a match rather than a forfeit at state. If something is broke then I totally agree with the wrestler not going, but if something is strained and he can wrestle through it later then so be it. It happened with my brother and Tyler Willis in the finals in 2010. Willis was injured on an illegal move in the semis, you could see he was in a lot of pain and couldn’t continue. So Willis injury defaulted and won the match due to the illegal move. He went on to wrestle in the finals against my brother. He wasn’t himself for sure, but I commend him for going out there and trying, and fighting through the pain. I’d HATE to see a match forfeited under the lights.  

I agree having a match forfeited under the lights would not be good for the sport. I think different circumstances can allow for things to happen (like wrestlers competing after an injury) The spectators don’t hear the conversations on the mat (with the coaches and trainers and wrestler) and they don’t get to what goes on behind the scenes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wnwrestler138 said:

I agree having a match forfeited under the lights would not be good for the sport. I think different circumstances can allow for things to happen (like wrestlers competing after an injury) The spectators don’t hear the conversations on the mat (with the coaches and trainers and wrestler) and they don’t get to what goes on behind the scenes. 

I’ve never met a coach that will allow a kid to injury default just to get to the finals. The look our what’s best for their kid. Now I’m not saying there is t a coach out there that would just take the injury default when their kid is fine. But again if it’s serious and they can’t wrestle then forfeit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RaiderColfax said:

I’ve never met a coach that will allow a kid to injury default just to get to the finals. The look our what’s best for their kid. Now I’m not saying there is t a coach out there that would just take the injury default when their kid is fine. But again if it’s serious and they can’t wrestle then forfeit.

Look long enough, I’m sure you’ll find one 

Edited by Nick Dewig
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, wnwrestler138 said:

I agree having a match forfeited under the lights would not be good for the sport. I think different circumstances can allow for things to happen (like wrestlers competing after an injury) The spectators don’t hear the conversations on the mat (with the coaches and trainers and wrestler) and they don’t get to what goes on behind the scenes. 

In my personal opinion if you're good enough to wrestle under the lights, you're good enough to finish that semi-finals match as a champ. Look at the adversary Joe Walker went through with his ankle. He got a bad draw no matter what because he'd have to wrestle a 1. Then he wrestled the whole tournament on a bad ankle and won it. I'm saying that in the spur of the moment regardless of what coaches or trainers say, if you are seriously injured you either tough it out and deal with the pain in a later match, or you forfeit and don't wrestle the rest of the day. I've seen kids lay down and act all hurt and then wrestle the rest of the day after getting that forfeit. I know coaches that will do anything to win or get a finalist too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Nick Dewig said:

Look long enough, I’m sure you’ll find one 

Maybe, but do you know what is said to a wrestler when it’s just him, the coaches, and the medical personal? Because I don’t. Maybe there are some that I’ve met that have, but I would never know. I’m too busy focusing on my wrestler rather than what the opposing coach is saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, 60yearold120lbs said:

In my personal opinion if you're good enough to wrestle under the lights, you're good enough to finish that semi-finals match as a champ. Look at the adversary Joe Walker went through with his ankle. He got a bad draw no matter what because he'd have to wrestle a 1. Then he wrestled the whole tournament on a bad ankle and won it. I'm saying that in the spur of the moment regardless of what coaches or trainers say, if you are seriously injured you either tough it out and deal with the pain in a later match, or you forfeit and don't wrestle the rest of the day. I've seen kids lay down and act all hurt and then wrestle the rest of the day after getting that forfeit. I know coaches that will do anything to win or get a finalist too.

I’m just stating unforeseen circumstances can allow for a wrestler who was believed to be seriously injured earlier an opportunity to finish the day after an injury default. I do agree though, that some coaches would advise their wrestler to stay down and take the injury default even if they aren’t hurt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To all the people saying you shouldn't be able to wrestle after defaulting please answer this:

 

If a wrestler is in a tight match and is injured due to an illegal move, why should he feel it necessary to continue wrestling at a disadvantage?  Why should he feel he can't try to wrestle his next match at a disadvantage?  

 

I have coached for almost 20 years, and have never won a match defaulting.  I have had a kid, getting drilled, get injured by a slam a few times and just gave the win to the other guy. 

 

I know you are going to say that some coaches or wrestlers take advantage of the situation just for a W.  I just don't think you can make a rule that could possibly keep a kid from participating after an illegal move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Timeinandout said:

To all the people saying you shouldn't be able to wrestle after defaulting please answer this:

 

If a wrestler is in a tight match and is injured due to an illegal move, why should he feel it necessary to continue wrestling at a disadvantage?  Why should he feel he can't try to wrestle his next match at a disadvantage?  

 

I have coached for almost 20 years, and have never won a match defaulting.  I have had a kid, getting drilled, get injured by a slam a few times and just gave the win to the other guy. 

 

I know you are going to say that some coaches or wrestlers take advantage of the situation just for a W.  I just don't think you can make a rule that could possibly keep a kid from participating after an illegal move.

I've been wrestling around the same amount of time you have been coaching. I have seen wrestlers take an injury default and walk around fine five minutes later a few minutes later. I think if you could. By saying "hey you're injury defaulting you can't wrestle the rest of the day. Understand that." You're giving then mmm the option to choose. You're really allowing the wrestler to pick and choose what match they want to wrestle in with the ways the rules are now. "No I'm not good enough to wrestle and finish the match, but I can wrestle the next match." It softens the sports. 
 

A story I have is this, 

A year ago at Goshen Regionals first round one of the Gimson boys from Jimtown was winning his match by a wide margin. He got called for an illegal body slam, and this kid seemed hurt. I really respected what the East Noble coaches did... they knew their kid wouldn't be able to finish the match, but they started the time let it run one second and then stopped the time  and then lost the match.  The coaches knew that Gimson was going to place at state (he did). This coach got crap from the fans for sure, and the coaches I talked to throughout the day said they don't know that they would be able to do that. I know that this sort of argues for allowing injury defaults, but a majority of the coaches said they don't know if they could do that. Keeping that in the back of my mind, It's easy for coaches to say they'd do the right thing, but when it all comes down to it, a lot of then would have a hard time not taking their kid to semi-state, state, the finals etc. I think by giving the option to pick and choose which match they wrestle in gives them the idea that they get to go farther. Either way the rules are the rules, and I'm just for good hard wrestling. There can always be talk about ways to improve the sport. I'm here to learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume not many of us are doctors or in the medical field. For that reason I don't believe we should be the ones determining if someone can wrestle or not after being injured or injury default. I have heard trainers or on site doctors say "Ice it and see how it feels" pain can heel and go away in time. Tournaments like state you may have 2 hours or more in between matches that is enough time feel better. With a Head injury it takes time to determine if one has a concussion sometimes more time then whats allowed during a match. Medical personal may have time after the default to make a better decision. The point is it should be up to someone with a medical back round to decide whether someone can continue a match or even continue wrestling after a default not Refs, coaches, parents, or fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This seams like a silly topic to me. Why are we blaming the victim of an illegal move for wrestling later on if they feel like they can.  Hears an idea, don't do the illegal move then you wont have a problem. Maybe its just the cop in me but penalizing the victim and rewarding the offender seams wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, boomer said:

This seams like a silly topic to me. Why are we blaming the victim of an illegal move for wrestling later on if they feel like they can.  Hears an idea, don't do the illegal move then you wont have a problem. Maybe its just the cop in me but penalizing the victim and rewarding the offender seams wrong.

Okay Boomer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bbulldog152 said:

I assume not many of us are doctors or in the medical field. For that reason I don't believe we should be the ones determining if someone can wrestle or not after being injured or injury default. I have heard trainers or on site doctors say "Ice it and see how it feels" pain can heel and go away in time. Tournaments like state you may have 2 hours or more in between matches that is enough time feel better. With a Head injury it takes time to determine if one has a concussion sometimes more time then whats allowed during a match. Medical personal may have time after the default to make a better decision. The point is it should be up to someone with a medical back round to decide whether someone can continue a match or even continue wrestling after a default not Refs, coaches, parents, or fans.

I can agree with it, and I'm not like completely defacing it. I'm just proposing this a little bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Jack Jones said:

It just doesn't seem wrong, it most certainly IS wrong.

Then allow replays for bad calls by the refs. Just because a move is called illegal doesn't mean it actually was. I know kids that have losses matches from an "illegal move." This cost him when he was winning 10-0. After everything was done and the tournament was over the coach was still upset and showed him the video. The ref said he made the wrong call. Now this other kid wrestled the rest of the day fine... how do you make up for bad calls? Or questionable calls? I'm just saying that you shouldn't be Able to fake an injury and wrestle the rest of the day. That's cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, 60yearold120lbs said:

Then allow replays for bad calls by the refs. Just because a move is called illegal doesn't mean it actually was. I know kids that have losses matches from an "illegal move." This cost him when he was winning 10-0. After everything was done and the tournament was over the coach was still upset and showed him the video. The ref said he made the wrong call. Now this other kid wrestled the rest of the day fine... how do you make up for bad calls? Or questionable calls? I'm just saying that you shouldn't be Able to fake an injury and wrestle the rest of the day. That's cheap.

Or when a coach blatantly stops a kid from getting up when they are fine. I’ve seen multiple coaches in the state literally say, “if you stay down you win”

then when the time is up they stand up shake hands Walk off and end up wrestling in the next match. If you take the full five, you shouldn’t be allowed to wrestle the rest of the day. That takes a “cheap win” out of the coaches hands.

Edited by The Zebra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand there's coaches that abuse the rules but do we really this it's necessary to punish kids and that don't abuse it? I've had kids (in none DQ situations) Hit there head injury default be cause either a trainer wasn't there to check on the situation or the trainer need more time so injury time runs out and the default. once the trainer was able to give a full evaluation allow the kid to wrestle. The number one concern should be safety. Creating a rule like this with cause coaches and wrestlers to put safety aside and force wrestling even if they shouldn't just to not default the next match. The point should be for a wrestler not do an illegal move. I teach my wrestlers not to put the match in the refs hands. Part of that includes avoiding illegal moves. I understand bad calls are made and some coaches take advantage of the rules but once again I don't think we should punish those that don't do this or the illegal move is the correct call. Refs say in most coaches meaning that safety is a priority and I think it should be. Once again this is where there should always be medical staff to help make these decisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many wrestlers and coaches take advantage of the injury (time-out) rule.  This is much more of a problem than the injury default situation.  You can't tell a kid that he can't take injury time, even when it is very obvious, he's not injured, just tired.  At some point, you must trust the integrity of the coaches and wrestlers, and sometimes the athlete, and more importantly, the adults in the situation, are not teaching and displaying it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2020 at 11:04 AM, 60yearold120lbs said:

I've been wrestling around the same amount of time you have been coaching. I have seen wrestlers take an injury default and walk around fine five minutes later a few minutes later. I think if you could. By saying "hey you're injury defaulting you can't wrestle the rest of the day. Understand that." You're giving then mmm the option to choose. You're really allowing the wrestler to pick and choose what match they want to wrestle in with the ways the rules are now. "No I'm not good enough to wrestle and finish the match, but I can wrestle the next match." It softens the sports. 
 

A story I have is this, 

A year ago at Goshen Regionals first round one of the Gimson boys from Jimtown was winning his match by a wide margin. He got called for an illegal body slam, and this kid seemed hurt. I really respected what the East Noble coaches did... they knew their kid wouldn't be able to finish the match, but they started the time let it run one second and then stopped the time  and then lost the match.  The coaches knew that Gimson was going to place at state (he did). This coach got crap from the fans for sure, and the coaches I talked to throughout the day said they don't know that they would be able to do that. I know that this sort of argues for allowing injury defaults, but a majority of the coaches said they don't know if they could do that. Keeping that in the back of my mind, It's easy for coaches to say they'd do the right thing, but when it all comes down to it, a lot of then would have a hard time not taking their kid to semi-state, state, the finals etc. I think by giving the option to pick and choose which match they wrestle in gives them the idea that they get to go farther. Either way the rules are the rules, and I'm just for good hard wrestling. There can always be talk about ways to improve the sport. I'm here to learn.

Hate to nitpick but I think this was 2 years ago. I also respect what EastNoble did that day though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2020 at 3:12 PM, 60yearold120lbs said:

Then allow replays for bad calls by the refs. Just because a move is called illegal doesn't mean it actually was. I know kids that have losses matches from an "illegal move." This cost him when he was winning 10-0. After everything was done and the tournament was over the coach was still upset and showed him the video. The ref said he made the wrong call. Now this other kid wrestled the rest of the day fine... how do you make up for bad calls? Or questionable calls? I'm just saying that you shouldn't be Able to fake an injury and wrestle the rest of the day. That's cheap.

I have noticed in multiple instances ( for example the 120lb semi finals of state this Year) the referee didn’t call the illegal move until he realized Bettich was slow to get up. I’ve realized the referees won’t call illegal moves unless they notice the wrestler looks injured and they change the call. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.