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Dirty or Smart Coach?


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Pennsylvania is having their state duals this week. There are a few schools in Pennsylvania that due to their parochial association do not allow male wrestlers to compete against a girl. So at the duals state finals a team brought some girls and put them in against presumably at least one of their better kids to gain a forfeit.

 

Is this dirty or smart coaching?

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This is the same stuff that got our duals taken away from us by the IHSAA. In my opinion, you start your starters and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not saying don't bump weights for match-ups but if the girls weren't already the starters, then that seems very below the belt to me. If they were, then more power to them. Not their fault that the Catholic Schools won't let them wrestle girls. 

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1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Pennsylvania is having their state duals this week. There are a few schools in Pennsylvania that due to their parochial association do not allow male wrestlers to compete against a girl. So at the duals state finals a team brought some girls and put them in against presumably at least one of their better kids to gain a forfeit.

 

Is this dirty or smart coaching?

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I like it.  Why wasn't the parochial school smart enough to bring their own girls?

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30 minutes ago, DrunkJoeNamath said:

Bill Belicheck 2.0

 

 

Let's say the Colts announced a team rule that they will only run the ball up the middle on the goal line.  (like saying you will forfeit to a girl)

 

Would Belicheck be "dirty" for stacking the box with all 11 defensive players knowing the Colts won't try anything else?

 

If you set a team rule or policy, you leave yourself open to others taking advantage of it.  So, I agree with Galagore - recruiting girls just for that purpose is dirty and against every coaching philosophy, but if they are already on the team, it is smart.

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If they want the dub that bad, why stop at just one kid, bring a whole line up of girls and then not only can you thump your chest about the win, you can even say you shut them out.

 

If these girls are not regulars in their line up, which I am guessing they are not, doing this a slap in the face to the integrity of the tournament. 

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In Pennsylvania and seems like the same in Indiana where the Private and Parochial are so dominant that we have a Catholic League and Public League.  Catholic Leagues play other parochial schools during the season and only meet to dominate the Public schools in the off season.

 

I also may be old school but I think girl's wrestling is mockery of a man's sport

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17 minutes ago, PhillyFanMD said:

In Pennsylvania and seems like the same in Indiana where the Private and Parochial are so dominant that we have a Catholic League and Public League.  Catholic Leagues play other parochial schools during the season and only meet to dominate the Public schools in the off season.

 

I also may be old school but I think girl's wrestling is mockery of a man's sport

Interested to hear why it’s a mockery.

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2 minutes ago, PhillyFanMD said:

In Pennsylvania and seems like the same in Indiana where the Private and Parochial are so dominant that we have a Catholic League and Public League.  Catholic Leagues play other parochial schools during the season and only meet to dominate the Public schools in the off season.

 

I also may be old school but I think girl's wrestling is mockery of a man's sport

That is old school thought.    Girls wrestling is pouring energy and participation into a sport that other wise was slowly leaking.     I think fair to say its a Man's and Woman's sport now.    Give it a few years, female participation will grow and you will see sanctioned female wrestling and the girls will only wrestle the girls. But in the mean time,   I think its only fair to provide a platform for the girls to participate and continue to grow their niche in the sport.   And in my opinion,   religious indictments like this made by religious leaders is just using a religious cloak to hide sexist discriminatory beliefs.   I just say too bad for parochial schools but you choose to not wrestle, you forfeit or lose.  You have to step on the mat to win.

 

With that said,  about 5 years ago a similar case came up and it involved a catholic school in my home town back in Kansas.   The small parochial school wrestled a tournament and a few wrestlers ended up wrestling some girls.    The conservative Diocese over seeing that school and a handful of other Catholic schools pronounced an edict that the boys couldn't wrestle any girls.   Note the other Diocese in the state didn't do anything.   So it just affected schools in the Kansas City area.    The problem was a few girls in Kansas qualified for the state tournament.  Its true, again class wrestling in Kansas does make it significantly easier to qualify for state,  but that's fodder for another post. Of course in a first round matchup,   A catholic school kid drew a girl.   And think the girl was a 4 seed and the guy was 1 seed out of regional.   Of course the young gentleman had to forfeit.   Made quite a stir.  But again,  maybe a good life lesson for the kid.

 

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2 hours ago, Coach Brobst said:

This is the same stuff that got our duals taken away from us by the IHSAA. In my opinion, you start your starters and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not saying don't bump weights for match-ups but if the girls weren't already the starters, then that seems very below the belt to me. If they were, then more power to them. Not their fault that the Catholic Schools won't let them wrestle girls. 

I was under the impression that attendance was the reason we lost team state. I have no issues with girls wrestling girls but as a Catholic I cannot condone boys wrestling girls. 

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4 minutes ago, Ahawkeye said:

I was under the impression that attendance was the reason we lost team state. I have no issues with girls wrestling girls but as a Catholic I cannot condone boys wrestling girls. 

 

Why does being Catholic make it wrong? I get if you are against boys wrestling girls. That's your choice and not what this is about. But what does it have to do with Catholicism? What am I missing? 

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If the girls would have been traveling with the team no matter what, then why is it a problem for them to wrestle? Again, if they were only brought along to take the forfeits, then I don't like. But if they were traveling anyway, why is it a bad thing? If you have a wrestler who you know is only a so-so wrestler, but is fantastic at a head lock, wouldn't you call her/him up from JV if the opponent in that weight was known to be vulnerable to head locks?

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I can definitely see why people would think this is dirty because coaches 100% know before the dual meet that the school they are wrestling does not allow boys to wrestle girls so they use that to their advantage, but then again a coach can do whatever they want with their lineup. It is not their fault that school does not allow that. I just think the whole thing is stupid, boys should be able to wrestle girls and vice versa without an issue.

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18 minutes ago, Ahawkeye said:

I was under the impression that attendance was the reason we lost team state. I have no issues with girls wrestling girls but as a Catholic I cannot condone boys wrestling girls. 

They may have said "attendance", but coaches not using starters and essentially not caring about it is what lost us Team State. Nothing to do with girls wrestling, but simply people doing shady things to win wrestling duals or not caring about winning and just throwing JV kids out there so their Varsity guys would be ready for Individual State stuff. 

 

13 minutes ago, Galagore said:

If the girls would have been traveling with the team no matter what, then why is it a problem for them to wrestle? Again, if they were only brought along to take the forfeits, then I don't like. But if they were traveling anyway, why is it a bad thing? If you have a wrestler who you know is only a so-so wrestler, but is fantastic at a head lock, wouldn't you call her/him up from JV if the opponent in that weight was known to be vulnerable to head locks?

Because it's not a weakness. I'm sure there are boys on that team that would have had no problem wrestling the girls. If the school says they can't, they can't and that's using a SCHOOL policy against them rather than a wrestling weakness. I stand by what I said. If they were starters to begin with, then it is what it is. But if they brought them for the sole intention of getting forfeits so they could win the dual, then it's below the belt. 

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Hypothetical situation.   So some Bishop gets a power trip and makes an edict that boys cant wrestle girls,    would the same Bishop make a similar edict in football.  Wouldn't the bishop consider it to be equally as bad for boys to play football with girls?    So maybe in the next state football tournament in Pennsylvania,  an underdog team playing a powerhouse Catholic team,  should insert a girl into the starting line-up.  Would the Catholic football team have to forfeit the football game?   Maybe a good way to advance to the state title.

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4 minutes ago, Coach Brobst said:

They may have said "attendance", but coaches not using starters and essentially not caring about it is what lost us Team State. Nothing to do with girls wrestling, but simply people doing shady things to win wrestling duals or not caring about winning and just throwing JV kids out there so their Varsity guys would be ready for Individual State stuff. 

 

Because it's not a weakness. I'm sure there are boys on that team that would have had no problem wrestling the girls. If the school says they can't, they can't and that's using a SCHOOL policy against them rather than a wrestling weakness. I stand by what I said. If they were starters to begin with, then it is what it is. But if they brought them for the sole intention of getting forfeits so they could win the dual, then it's below the belt. 

 

Good point. Not sure I am totally on board with your opinion, but you've moved the needle for me. 

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26 minutes ago, AJ said:

 

What in the Catholic faith disallows boys to wrestle girls?  

I'm not a religious scholar but I think they believe you should never physically harm a woman. Take that for what it is worth.

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