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3 minutes ago, MattM said:

Quarterfinal losers are out.  Semi-finals loser wrestle for 3rd/4th.  Top 4 advance to semi-State. 

 

Thanks, I thought that was the way. Doesn't make sense that we can wrestle back for sectionals and not the regional and so forth. Especially when only 8 wrestlers a weight class are there.

Edited by casualwrestlingfan
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1 hour ago, MattM said:

Pretty simple at the Regional level to figure out brackets. There is a Sectional A and Sectional B.  All of them have the same basic setup formula. 
 

Regional Round 1

1st A vs 4th B
3rd A vs 2nd B
2nd A vs 3rd B

4th A ca 1st B

 

 

It is pretty simple but as I get older my memory is not as good as it used to be. It’s nice to see it in one place and in bracket form. 

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Agreed. Indiana definitely puts the entertainment value before the athletes potential. I have no problem with the regional format except the fact of no wrestle backs.  The semi-state and state should be seeded with wrestlebacks and true seconds for the State finals. Anything less is an obscenity to many wrestlers that have put in the time and blood sweat and tears to the sport

 

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10 hours ago, isaiah11 said:

The semi-state and state should be seeded with wrestlebacks and true seconds for the State finals.

 

I'm wondering why true seconds are needed if you seed the wrestlers.  Is it obscene that the NCAA's and Olympics don't have a true second?

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1 hour ago, Alduflux said:

I'm wondering why true seconds are needed if you seed the wrestlers.  Is it obscene that the NCAA's and Olympics don't have a true second?

Because even though seeding is a huge improvement it's not perfect. And every wrestler competing should have the opportunity for the highest placement. 

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1 hour ago, Alduflux said:

I'm wondering why true seconds are needed if you seed the wrestlers.  Is it obscene that the NCAA's and Olympics don't have a true second?

Also the NCAA tournament is not a one and done like our state tournament or the ticket round without wrestlebacks in semi-state. Every year the best of our state is not all on the podium. 

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2 minutes ago, isaiah11 said:

Also the NCAA tournament is not a one and done like our state tournament or the ticket round without wrestlebacks in semi-state. Every year the best of our state is not all on the podium. 

But I think the point is if you are seeding and have full wrestle backs what is the need for a true second? The only time you normally see true seconds is if only the top 2 qualify for something. I agree that wrestlebacks and seeds would be great improvements but true seconds are not needed.

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26 minutes ago, bbulldog152 said:

But I think the point is if you are seeding and have full wrestle backs what is the need for a true second? The only time you normally see true seconds is if only the top 2 qualify for something. I agree that wrestlebacks and seeds would be great improvements but true seconds are not needed.

True. Just like our middle school state has true seconds. Not every weight class would use the true second match. But for those that fall between the cracks it is a catch all. Then we have the top performers and the athletes performance is the goal not an awe factor of upsets and kids going home from a bad draw. IMO

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For all the true 2nd talk, not much realization that it mostly for not since the Semi-states “luck of the draw” formula would still be as big of a factor in determining advancement.  I’ve seen plenty of 3rd place wrestles advance while the 2nd place wrestler didn’t due to the level of competition they drew in that opening round. 

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12 minutes ago, isaiah11 said:

True. Just like our middle school state has true seconds. Not every weight class would use the true second match. But for those that fall between the cracks it is a catch all. Then we have the top performers and the athletes performance is the goal not an awe factor of upsets and kids going home from a bad draw. IMO

If there's seeds and wrestle backs the the whole bad draw thing is taken away. I just don't see the point of a true second if there are seeds. Most of the time the top 2 will be on opposite sides. Not to mention We would do an entire state tournament with full wrestle backs wrestle the finals then have someone that just lost under the lights come back out at 11pm-12pm and wrestle one more match. My questions is how many wrestlers that finish 3rd want really want a chance a 2nd if it doesn't mean they wrestle under the lights.

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Once again I agree with what you are saying. The true second is a different animal. And being under the lights going for the tile of State Champion is the goal. But in several occasions. Nick Lee vs Micic comes to mind. Being on the same side of the bracket and losing to Micic do you think Lee would've wanted the opportunity to be State runner up or was satisfied with 3rd? Idk I'm looking at getting the best kids into their proper placement. 

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25 minutes ago, isaiah11 said:

Once again I agree with what you are saying. The true second is a different animal. And being under the lights going for the tile of State Champion is the goal. But in several occasions. Nick Lee vs Micic comes to mind. Being on the same side of the bracket and losing to Micic do you think Lee would've wanted the opportunity to be State runner up or was satisfied with 3rd? Idk I'm looking at getting the best kids into their proper placement. 

True second means nothing at the state tournament. What kid would actually want to wrestle after losing a state title?  And how anticlimactic is it to end the whole season on true second matches? 

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I do not think the IHSAA would do anything beyond a repechage at state, if that.  Illinois does it and it still takes three (somewhat partial) days to navigate, regardless of class.  Do you really want high school kids to wrestle three full days to have full wrestlebacks?  It is a murderous grind, as any college qualifier can tell you.

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2 hours ago, isaiah11 said:

Once again I agree with what you are saying. The true second is a different animal. And being under the lights going for the tile of State Champion is the goal. But in several occasions. Nick Lee vs Micic comes to mind. Being on the same side of the bracket and losing to Micic do you think Lee would've wanted the opportunity to be State runner up or was satisfied with 3rd? Idk I'm looking at getting the best kids into their proper placement. 

I'm pretty sure nick lee wanted to win state and that was his only goal. I'm sure most wrestlers at that level has the goal of winning state... if there goal is to finish 2nd I would make a bet it's so that can wrestle under the lights not be the second best wrestler. If the concern is placement accuracy why not do a true 4th,6th,or 8th I'm sure those placements are affected as well. 

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8 hours ago, isaiah11 said:

True. Just like our middle school state has true seconds. Not every weight class would use the true second match. But for those that fall between the cracks it is a catch all. Then we have the top performers and the athletes performance is the goal not an awe factor of upsets and kids going home from a bad draw. IMO


a true second demeans the finals and our state finals are the best thing Indiana Wrestling has.

 

true second is weird in an actual championship; they only exist to help create ladders for qualifiers.

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