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Team State adds 4A UPDATE: 8-8-12-12 teams (the people have spoken)


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On 1/14/2020 at 6:55 AM, Antknee said:

 

 

Exactly!!

The Winamac Warriors (1A School 293 enrollment)  5 years ago had only 7 wrestlers in the varsity program... Using Classed Team State as a carrot along with -  Getting a local club started, and VERY involved Head Coach with involved assistant coaches all way down through middle school we have 23 on the  High School Roster this year...  its not 50 kids BUT we fill the weight classes and are getting competitors in the room..  

 

I can't begin to know the frustrations of running a Team Tournament like this but I do know that our kids get excited and just the chance to possibly be able to compete at a State level Tournament even if its not IHSAA. 

 

Why not embrace the change and try it for couple years (one year is not even close to get enough data to make a decision on) 

I like the idea of 8 teams larger 2 classes 12 teams smaller 2 classes...  no matter what choice is made there will be upset people just nature of the game...

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The people have spoken. Thanks for all the input. President Greg Ratliff, tournament director JD Minch, and others have put their heads together and figured out proposed ways to make 20 mats work so t

Anyone who knows me, knows I love the dual part of wrestling.  As I give an opinion, keep in mind I’m at Brownsburg.  We don’t have a dog in the fight.  We will be largest division regardless.   Our g

If we do 4 classes with 1A and 2A having 12 teams and then 3A and 4A having 8 teams each it would probably satisfy everyone. 1A and 2A could run their own schedule(with a bye round included) and proba

Anyone who knows me, knows I love the dual part of wrestling.  As I give an opinion, keep in mind I’m at Brownsburg.  We don’t have a dog in the fight.  We will be largest division regardless.   Our goal is to win so it doesn’t matter if 8 or 12 teams go.  
 

Those that have an issue with the new system, would Joe’s suggestion/compromise take care of this -

4A and 3A have 8 teams.

1A and 2A have 12 teams.  
 

Is there a schedule or space concern I’m not aware of?

 

If this is best for 1A and 2A schools, I’d say do it.  Just my 2 cents.  Thanks to everyone who makes Team State such a great event.  
 

Snyder

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1 hour ago, Darrick Snyder said:

Anyone who knows me, knows I love the dual part of wrestling.  As I give an opinion, keep in mind I’m at Brownsburg.  We don’t have a dog in the fight.  We will be largest division regardless.   Our goal is to win so it doesn’t matter if 8 or 12 teams go.  
 

Those that have an issue with the new system, would Joe’s suggestion/compromise take care of this -

4A and 3A have 8 teams.

1A and 2A have 12 teams.  
 

Is there a schedule or space concern I’m not aware of?

 

If this is best for 1A and 2A schools, I’d say do it.  Just my 2 cents.  Thanks to everyone who makes Team State such a great event.  
 

Snyder

 

Working to make things even better... just need a few days to hammer out details!

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4 hours ago, maligned said:

It will be the same enrollment numbers as this past season. 

My Atheltic Director told me that new enrollment numbers are published every year. Why wouldn't we use current enrollment every year? 

 

 

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7 hours ago, infowrestling said:

My Atheltic Director told me that new enrollment numbers are published every year. Why wouldn't we use current enrollment every year? 

 

 

Official numbers by the IHSAA for classification purposes come out every two years. The numbers governing 2019-20 and 2020-21 for all sports were released in January a year ago. Next release will be this time next year.

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1 hour ago, maligned said:

Official numbers by the IHSAA for classification purposes come out every two years. The numbers governing 2019-20 and 2020-21 for all sports were released in January a year ago. Next release will be this time next year.

 

Correct.  It is my understanding that they are published every 2 years for reclassification purposes in order for the IHSAA to assign new host sites if needed.  

 

It is also my understanding that updated enrollment figures are released every year.  Host site realignment is not a concern for the IHSWCA Team State tournament.  It seems logical to use up to date enrollment figures, yearly, since they are available. 

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The people have spoken. Thanks for all the input. President Greg Ratliff, tournament director JD Minch, and others have put their heads together and figured out proposed ways to make 20 mats work so that we can run with the idea of 8 teams in 3A and 4A and 12 teams in 1A and 2A. See the updated nitty gritty details in the original post. Cheers

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On 1/17/2020 at 5:58 AM, infowrestling said:

 

Correct.  It is my understanding that they are published every 2 years for reclassification purposes in order for the IHSAA to assign new host sites if needed.  

 

It is also my understanding that updated enrollment figures are released every year.  Host site realignment is not a concern for the IHSWCA Team State tournament.  It seems logical to use up to date enrollment figures, yearly, since they are available. 

 

@maligned what is the course of action with this?

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Ok, so now it begs the question. If 1A, 2A, and 3A all have around 80 schools in them, why does 1A and 2A get 12 and 3A 8?  All the arguments you made for that being good for those programs remains the same for 3A.  I know why you all are fighting to have more in those classes, it benefits YOUR team, I get it.  But having 8 in each division is fair and makes for a better tourney. 

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18 minutes ago, rhayes said:

Ok, so now it begs the question. If 1A, 2A, and 3A all have around 80 schools in them, why does 1A and 2A get 12 and 3A 8?  All the arguments you made for that being good for those programs remains the same for 3A.  I know why you all are fighting to have more in those classes, it benefits YOUR team, I get it.  But having 8 in each division is fair and makes for a better tourney. 

In 1A and 2A there will be approximately 90 schools and in the 3A division, there will be approximately 60 teams. The first post was amended to include this. This allows for an equal percentage of schools from those three classes to qualify.

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26 minutes ago, rhayes said:

Ok, so now it begs the question. If 1A, 2A, and 3A all have around 80 schools in them, why does 1A and 2A get 12 and 3A 8?  All the arguments you made for that being good for those programs remains the same for 3A.  I know why you all are fighting to have more in those classes, it benefits YOUR team, I get it.  But having 8 in each division is fair and makes for a better tourney. 

 

How/Why?

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50 minutes ago, rhayes said:

Ok, so now it begs the question. If 1A, 2A, and 3A all have around 80 schools in them, why does 1A and 2A get 12 and 3A 8?  All the arguments you made for that being good for those programs remains the same for 3A.  I know why you all are fighting to have more in those classes, it benefits YOUR team, I get it.  But having 8 in each division is fair and makes for a better tourney. 

 

Less schools for 1A and 2A would not make for a better tournament. The fluctuation of improvement or a team getting worse is much higher in the smaller schools than the schools in 3A and now 4A. Look at this year for 2A, Bellmont and Garrett both were voted in and were the top 2 teams. The scoring formula does a great job, but it isn't perfect and there are still discrepancies on knowing the future of a team. Keeping the smaller classes at 12 teams allows for the tournament to be more competitive and allows those bubble teams due to formula scoring a fighting chance.

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51 minutes ago, lanntp01 said:

 

How/Why?

Probably the biggest advantage of the 8 Team bracket vs 12 is it doesn't require each team to sit out a round for a bye.   Somebody mentioned ealier that the 8 man bracket is more understandable for fans.

Also,  IMO in the 12 man bracket format, seeding really affects youre outcome.   In the 8 man bracket, you get 3 pool play matches so you get more of a chance to out wrestle your seeding and placement is more of  a result of wrestling than seeding.

 

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2 hours ago, rhayes said:

Ok, so now it begs the question. If 1A, 2A, and 3A all have around 80 schools in them, why does 1A and 2A get 12 and 3A 8?  All the arguments you made for that being good for those programs remains the same for 3A.  I know why you all are fighting to have more in those classes, it benefits YOUR team, I get it.  But having 8 in each division is fair and makes for a better tourney. 

4A will most likely only get 5 because the other 3 spots are going to be taken by loaded private schools that are moving up. 
 

So 4A will be the 4 semistate champs, 1 at large, EMD, Cathedral, and Roncolli?

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46 minutes ago, Timeinandout said:

Maligned,

Does this mean that the 3A and 4A teams will be having the dreaded bye round as well as the smaller schools?

As mentioned in the amended 2.0 post...no. Part of the reason for considering the unbalanced 8-8-12-12 model is that we can use the same format for 1A and 2A as before and trust they'll easily catch up to 3A and 4A by their 3rd or 4th round. Small schools will have 5 rounds with one bye. Big schools will have 4 rounds.

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1 hour ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Probably the biggest advantage of the 8 Team bracket vs 12 is it doesn't require each team to sit out a round for a bye.   Somebody mentioned ealier that the 8 man bracket is more understandable for fans.

 

I'll take sitting out for a bye if it means we get to participate at team state if we are "projected" to be outside of the top 8 teams, rather than not getting invited.  A bye round is a small price to pay for a chance to show that you deserve to be there.

 

1 hour ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Also,  IMO in the 12 man bracket format, seeding really affects youre outcome.   In the 8 man bracket, you get 3 pool play matches so you get more of a chance to out wrestle your seeding and placement is more of  a result of wrestling than seeding.

 

Doesn't a seed always affect the outcome/match ups in all aspects and tournaments in our sport?  Im sure there will be a lot of match ups of what people believe are the best 2 teams that happen in pool play in 3a and 4a rather than in the finals. That will be a bummer. 

 

Im not sure why you think that you can't out wrestle your seeding with the 12 team concept.  We have done it every year. NS to 7th. 5th seed to 2nd.  5th seed to 2nd.  I'd say those are results of wrestling and not seeding.

 

But hey, potato, potato. I'll take my tomato, you can have your tomato.

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