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It’s Time


blueandgold

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7 hours ago, base said:

 

Yes coach, but if I'm not mistaken Alexandria's baseball team made it to state this year. I don't know how their football team did. The very contradiction of a small school is that if you want to have good players, then in today's day and age unless they are some freak athlete they have to put in work beyond "in-season".  So by asking these kids to come out for wrestling, you may just bring the baseball or football squad down to "average".

 

In my opinion, the benefit of a small school is that a student athlete has the opportunity to play and be a starter at multiple sports for their school.  The student can choose to specialize or do dual training of some sort to excel in a sport - but then I believe those individuals are probably already doing just that.

They did win state in baseball but you’re arguing my point too. Does Alex’s baseball team win a title in single class baseball? But because they knew they had a shot, fringe kids that are great role players stuck with it and were rewarded with a championship ring. Bring class wrestling to INDIANA and we see the same thing. Those kids that are on the fence give it a go or stick with it because they actually have a shot of being a multi sport athlete that finds success.

 

its absolutely the beauty of small school sports! But I’m certain, having taught, coached and grown up in small town school, there are 10-20 kids that could help a lot of these struggling programs that won’t come out because of the ceiling they perceive. A good athlete that plays football and baseball may be a state qualifier in classed wrestling and keep doing it because of that shot. That same kid looking at getting dipped at Regionals as a Senior May make a decision to focus on his other two sports.

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18 minutes ago, Coach Brobst said:

Sorry. Don’t want you to get what I’m saying twisted, I think Alexandria is doing an OUTSTANDING job of doing things the right way! Every time I go to a youth event and see 30-45 little Tigers out there and all the parents getting into it, I get excited for what that town has coming up! My entire family minus myself are Tigers, and you are absolutely doing fantastic things! 
 

just pointing out how you (and others in your boat) could have more immediate success at the HS level of it were classed and the work would be lessened. Burn out in our profession is very real. And many small towns don’t have another guy to take up the torch when one leaves due to it.
Keep up the great work! No doubt we’ll start seeing maroon and gold Tigers at Bankers life soon!

I don't think I took it the wrong way.  I think you are wanting to grow the sport period.  You want to see what is best to get more kids on the mat.  I totally get it, and you may be right that making the tournament class might get more kids interested in it for smaller schools like Alex.  I just think it is so special what we have and would hate to have it any other way.  Our little schools should celebrate the Semi-State qualifiers more ect...  I think we both want the same thing just don't see it the same way.  I get both sides.  Both sides have valid points that is why its such a hot topic.  I hope our program is on the rise we have been working our tails off and I could see burnout being an issue :)   

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One thing is for sure...having watched and participated in this debate for years (my stance is for classing, by the way) it is good to see that both sides have been significantly more civil and open to hearing the arguments of the other. Good job, message board!

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On 1/6/2020 at 8:08 PM, aoberlin said:

Nope. Just have wrestlebacks and our system is perfect. Division individual State Champs are lame. If you want more kids to wrestle act like it is a business and have some charisma and sell it. Class wrestling only adds water. 

Amen!!!

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I think you see the excitement of North Posey and tell city after ihswca team state as proof that class wrestling can build excitement and numbers.    I'd leave individual alone.  but the problem is the ihsaa doesn't recognize a team state so they really aren't state Champs.   i would like to see the coaches association and the ihsaa get this figured out and recognize a team champ as the actual state champ 

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I'd like to see people on both sides answer these questions honestly in the following two scenarios.

 

Scenarios

1. If individual state reduced the number of qualifiers to 12.
2. If individual state increased the number of qualifiers to 20.
 

 

Questions
Would that make us a tougher wrestling state?
Would that help grow wrestling within the state?
Would it add or subtract from the excitement at state?
What long-term affect would it have?

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 8:24 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

I'd like to see people on both sides answer these questions honestly in the following two scenarios.

 

Scenarios

1. If individual state reduced the number of qualifiers to 12.
2. If individual state increased the number of qualifiers to 20.
 

 

Questions
Would that make us a tougher wrestling state?
Would that help grow wrestling within the state?
Would it add or subtract from the excitement at state?
What long-term affect would it have?

 


I feel if state increased to 20 qualifiers, it’d make wrestling grow within the state. The opportunity for one more semi-state place winner to be involved means another school in attendance which is great for any event. I think it’d add to excitement because a lower seed winning big matches is always fun. Long-term, I think it’d increase Indiana’s visibility as it’d be a step to creating depth. 

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On 1/6/2020 at 7:24 PM, blueandgold said:

I’ve been doing a lot of research and a lot of conceptualizing, and I think in order for us to increase the talent pool and further grow the sport of wrestling in Indiana we need to split into two or three classes for the state tournament on top of getting rid of our travel restrictions. I think we should follow the PA route and go AA/AAA. The enthusiasm from those 1A/2A schools who don’t have nearly as many resources as their 3A counterparts every year should be an indicator at what this sport could be. We have a GOOD state tournament, don’t get me wrong. However, it could be so much better if we opened up our travel restrictions and broke off by class. Imagine what kind of career guys like Trezdon O’Neal or other small/intermediate school guys could’ve had with a much better system.

Nope this isn't it. We have Team State which gives the teams a chance to say that they placed a certain place in their own division. When it comes tournament time, there shouldn't be divisions because it's about being the best of the best. Jimtown won Semi-State with 3 wrestlers last year and they aren't as big as a ton of Fort Wayne Schools. So to say that class is going to make wrestling better, isn't a great argument because classes do not determine how great a team is or will be. Prairie Heights isn't a huge school, but it got a ton of numbers and tough kids through out the reign of Smoker and then Smith. The competition is determined by clubs and how much time people put in the off season. A lot of the good wrestling is coming from areas where clubs are strong, and the competition is great because the wrestlers are making each other better. If you look behind every good Program, they are in a club, or encourage their kids to get in a strong club in the area. Classes are dumb, and when tournament time hits, it is more about how far kids make it than the team winning the tournament. 

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I love what we are doing with team state. I think it is great and I am excited to watch that tradition continue to grow. 
 

If we class the individual tournament we lose out on so many good matchups. Dolly vs Mauer Red vs Lee Jackson vs Tsirtsis Campbell vs Petrov Carr vs Harper are some that probably never would have happened if we had class wrestling at the individual tournament. 
 

It really is a tough subject but I think there are more benefits in keeping things the way they are now. 
 

That being said we need to implement wrestle backs at semi state. 100% would make friday night even better than it already is. 

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28 minutes ago, CoachDuke2.0 said:

I love what we are doing with team state. I think it is great and I am excited to watch that tradition continue to grow. 
 

If we class the individual tournament we lose out on so many good matchups. Dolly vs Mauer Red vs Lee Jackson vs Tsirtsis Campbell vs Petrov Carr vs Harper are some that probably never would have happened if we had class wrestling at the individual tournament. 
 

It really is a tough subject but I think there are more benefits in keeping things the way they are now. 
 

That being said we need to implement wrestle backs at semi state. 100% would make friday night even better than it already is. 

Some of those matches would have happened. For sure Carr vs Harper, along with the Mater Dei matches as they have shown they would bump up. Yorktown's enrollment puts them literally on the bubble of big and small school in a two class system. The only one that you stated that would not happen would be Petrov vs. Campbell.

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All this talk has put so much emphasis on state champs. One place I think small schools would really see a bump in interest is the number of athletes winning sectional, qualifying to regional, making ticket round, etc. I know we are all supposed to aim high, but "high" is defined differently for some than it is for others. A lot of guys in our line-ups over the years climbed to their athletic peak by winning a sectional championship and/or making it to the ticket round of semi-state.

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1 hour ago, Galagore said:

All this talk has put so much emphasis on state champs. One place I think small schools would really see a bump in interest is the number of athletes winning sectional, qualifying to regional, making ticket round, etc. I know we are all supposed to aim high, but "high" is defined differently for some than it is for others. A lot of guys in our line-ups over the years climbed to their athletic peak by winning a sectional championship and/or making it to the ticket round of semi-state.

Your reasoning is why I'd have both. Smaller 1A schools with not much history could aim for a class system individual champ. 1A teams with success could strive for a single class champ. Teams like AC work towards the class team duals and the MD, PM, CP, and etc could work for the old single class dual. Still could track like the IHSAA does for state like now for both systems.

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