Dave Cloud Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Friends of Indiana Wrestling, I have had a several requests for copies of the outline of our Pioneer Wrestling League I prepared for handout at the NWCA Scholastic Leadership Academies. I truly believe it is one of the best things we have done to promote youth wrestling. It could not have happened without the support of the four area coaches I contacted to pitch the league idea: Rex Peckinpaugh at New Castle, Fred Short at Elwood, Trent McCormick at Yorktown and Kyle Poyer at Anderson Highland. Also, I must thank the amazing Amy Wales at Yorktown who took on administrative duties to get the league off the ground. Thank you all! Would love to hear what you are doing if you have a league already or what tweaks you make to our set up. Dave Lets Start a Little League dec 2019.docx manchwrestlingdad, nk140, piscis1956 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 We have been working on something similar up here, but haven't been able to get it off the ground yet. Glad to hear things are working for you. Definitely going to try to re-boot using this document as a jumping off point. Thank you for sharing! coachaking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 So you presented this in a national forum and used the word "retards"? As a life long special educator and a guy that works daily with students with moderate cognitive disabilities, I wished my elementary wrestlers listened and followed directions like "retards". Stay classy coach_worden, IMrule, TeamGarcia and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 The way it reads, he seems to be using the verb form of the word, not the noun form. As in, "slows the progress of" not as in "a derogatory term for people with cognitive disabilities." Unless there is another use of the word that I missed in my reading. piscis1956 and Silence Dogood 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piscis1956 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Galagore said: The way it reads, he seems to be using the verb form of the word, not the noun form. As in, "slows the progress of" not as in "a derogatory term for people with cognitive disabilities." Unless there is another use of the word that I missed in my reading. You are correct, Galagore. I know in my industry (a global industry) that word is used on a regular basis as just meaning “to slow down”. The word is definitely not to be taken as derogatory in every context. Dwilly and Silence Dogood 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Thats ridiculous, that’s like saying it’s okay to use other derogatory words as long as it’s a different context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 It’s is derogatory in every context, like any other word used to demean a group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piscis1956 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, TripleB said: Thats ridiculous, that’s like saying it’s okay to use other derogatory words as long as it’s a different context. There are many words that are derogatory in some contexts but are perfectly fine in others. Silence Dogood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAJR Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Slang does not override the original meaning or definition of a word. Nor does it make it derogatory in every context. piscis1956 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Context matters. This is how it was used. As I read his post I understood it to be as defined below. I did not think of people with cognitive disabilities. The reason I did not think of people with cognitive disabilities is because there was no reason to believe he was referring to any person or group of people. re·tard verb 3rd person present: retards /riˈtärd/ delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment. "our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties" Dwilly, Silence Dogood, piscis1956 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piscis1956 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, TripleB said: It’s is derogatory in every context, like any other word used to demean a group of people. The word “chink” when used in some contexts is a derogatory word intending to demean a group of people. In other contexts it is perfectly fine. Many people think of the word “redskin” as pejorative when speaking about a group of people. But I don’t think anyone would be offended by someone talking about a redskin potato. There are many such examples. Silence Dogood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 http://www.whyishedoingthat.com/blog/2015/12/29/the-r-word-in-reality A good article that goes in depth about what you all are referring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAJR Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Guess our definition of good is a little different too. Regardless, you being an educator and staying classy, possibly suggesting a rewrite would have been a better approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 TripleB, I agree with the principle you're trying to communicate, but I agree with others that it doesn't apply here. You're talking about the noun form of a pejorative term versus the verb form of an originally non-offensive word that is still used commonly in certain contexts as that verb. It would be the same as asking my child not to say she "colored" a picture because that word is offensive as an adjective. indianmorg, nk140, Bash513 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianmorg Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Lets not drag this on like the Epstein story, nobody is going to entirely agree on it. Get back on the topic, this is a great thread and this concept can definitely generate numbers and keep kids that might be on the brink of quitting more interested by having more mat time and skill equality piscis1956 and UncleJimmy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, indianmorg said: Lets not drag this on like the Epstein story,CLASS WRESTLING THREAD nobody is going to entirely agree on it. Get back on the topic, this is a great thread and this concept can definitely generate numbers and keep kids that might be on the brink of quitting more interested by having more mat time and skill equality Fixed it for you! indianmorg, CasualObserver, RAJR and 5 others 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piscis1956 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I thought the Pioneer Wrestling League was a great way for my grandson to start out. It allowed him to get a flavor for wrestling without a huge initial financial outlay by his parents. He really enjoyed it. And it really allowed him to wrestle as much ... or as little ... as he wanted on a given night. Coach Nieman, RAJR and indianmorg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brobst Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Since moving to HSE 3 years ago, I have been a part of the Pioneer Wrestling League and let me tell you, if you market it correctly to your club members, it keeps kids out so much better. 2 years ago, when I only coached club at HSE, we attended them almost as a practice, but we really pushed ISWA more to everyone so they could get better competition. I was dead wrong to do that. Any beginning wrestler that tried ISWA, quit that year. Many quit after their very first experience. Last year, we split club into beginner's and advanced and we only sent beginner's to PWL tourneys and our retention rate went from 50% from year 1 to year 2 to over 75% from last year to this year. We have many of last years PWL kids going to those again this year, but adding in ISWA beginner's tourney such as the fabulous ones run at Westfield or Zionsville the next two weekend. And before I get the "this is why Fishers kids are soft" message, I just want to point out we also have 15-20 kids in our new Advanced Club that only go to regular ISWA duals and tourneys (they're beyond PWL). Our "Intermediate" club goes to PWLs and Beginner's tourneys, and our Beginner's (4-6 year olds) only do PWLs (and some choose not to do even that). The concept is that learning the sport and loving it is more important than competing all the time. In today's day of Youth Baseball player playing 150+ games a year, it's hard for some parents to understand, but those that do are better off for it. I'm really glad that HSE has been a part of it and I think it will continue to be a great experience for our youngest wrestlers. As a matter of fact, we host one tonight at HSE in the Aux gym. Bring a kid or just yourself and check it out. If you ask for Coach Brobst and just want a tour of how we do it, I'll even let you in for free. nk140, AJ, piscis1956 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Boy this thread has been a wild ride lol. The wrestling league seems like a great idea that I may try to copy with nearby coaches. piscis1956 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Cloud Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) On 12/5/2019 at 9:11 AM, TripleB said: It’s is derogatory in every context, like any other word used to demean a group of people. On 12/5/2019 at 9:11 AM, TripleB said: It’s is derogatory in every context, like any other word used to demean a group of people. On 12/5/2019 at 7:52 AM, TripleB said: So you presented this in a national forum and used the word "retards"? As a life long special educator and a guy that works daily with students with moderate cognitive disabilities, I wished my elementary wrestlers listened and followed directions like "retards". Stay classy Triple B-- I don't know you so I can't impugn your character like you did mine. I used a real word, with a real and definite meaning. I do not engage in our current looking-to-be-offended-cancel-culture. Our LIfe Skills students at PH are part of our program as managers. I would never use a word designed to demean a person with a disability. The word is a VERB. The horrible term you refer to is a slang term that I never use and have admonished my wrestlers and football players for using. If you wish to speak to me directly as opposed to attacking me in a public forum, my phone is 765-610-8150. Dave Cloud Edited December 7, 2019 by dave c dstruck, UncleJimmy, horseofadifferentcolor and 10 others 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Mr. @davecloud and the 11 others that liked that post- plain and simple: it's offensive in any context. I'm not snowflaking, I'm not jumping on the latest easily offended trend. Sorry if I came off brash or offended anyone, now imagine how families and students feel when that word is used in any shape. I hope we call can do better, there are literally thousands of words we can use in the place of that word in the context in which it was used. Have a GREAT day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyDog Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 When used as a verb, the word "retard" is appropriate and not offensive. See this article, which references major newspapers and publications which have used the word properly. https://grammarist.com/usage/retard/. I have not read the document which used the word here, so I won't comment on this particular usage; I'm just saying there is a perfectly appropriate and non-offensive way to use the word "retard". To suggest that the word must be banned in all forms is political correctness gone amok. KBoyer and piscis1956 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, IndyDog said: When used as a verb, the word "retard" is appropriate and not offensive. See this article, which references major newspapers and publications which have used the word properly. https://grammarist.com/usage/retard/. I have not read the document which used the word here, so I won't comment on this particular usage; I'm just saying there is a perfectly appropriate and non-offensive way to use the word "retard". To suggest that the word must be banned in all forms is political correctness gone amok. Plain and simple, there are better words to use in that context. Here are some suggestions as to what words to use that are synonyms to the verb form of retard. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/retard It is a word that does not need to be used as there are PLENTY of suitable substitutions that we can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualwrestlingfan Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Is this something that NE Indiana has a jump on the rest of the state? They call the area one around here "Rivals Nights". It was fun to have my stepson participate against stiffer Indiana competition than he had last year in Ohio. It's a bit chaotic to begin with, but a good way to get some quality reps in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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