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Is Indiana's wrestling talent decreasing?

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A person I know, who wrestled a few years ago, loves to say that the wrestling talent is decreasing year after year. Do you agree? Just for fun, I thought I would put up the 2016 state champs vs the 2019 state champs in a duel meet to see who would win.

2016 State Champs vs 2019 State Champs

106: Asa Gracia vs Brennen Cernus

113: Colton Cummings vs Jacob Moran 

120: Drew Hildebrandt vs Brayden Littell 

 126: Brock Hudkins vs Jesse Mendez  

132: Chad Red vs Asa Garcia 

138: Brayton Lee vs Cayden Rooks 

145: Joe Lee vs Mathew Lee  

152: Trent Pruitt vs Elliott Rodgers  

160: Jacob Covaciu vs Jordan Slivka   

170: Drew Hughes vs Nick South    

182: Blake Rypel vs Carson Brewer  

195: Jake Kleimola vs Silas Allred     

220: Mason Parris vs Arthur Fowler  

285: Shawn Streck vs Dorian Keys   

This definitely does not tell if there is less talent but I think it is just fun to see who would win. IMO I had 2016 state champs winning by a lot!  44-6 to be exact

Edit: I realized after someone told me that I was being biased because I was comparing the kid's entire high school career instead of that individual year so my score got a little closer. 25-17 before Parris and Streck both get a fall so 37-17.

Edited by PMFAN

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2016 was one of our best senior classes

106: Asa Gracia 3X champ

113: Colton Cummings 2x champ

120: Drew Hildebrandt 4x placer

 126: Brock Hudkins 2x champ

132: Chad Red 4x champ

138: Brayton Lee 3x champ

145: Joe Lee 2x(would have been 3x) champ 

152: Trent Pruitt 1x champ

160: Jacob Covaciu 2x champ

170: Drew Hughes 2x champ

182: Blake Rypel 2x champ

195: Jake Kleimola 1x champ

220: Mason Parris 3x champ

285: Shawn Streck 2x champ

You could put this group against any year and they'd be favorites.

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But you need to look at the guys in 2016, not what they did since after.  I think Asa as a freshman probably loses to Cernus.  I love Asa to death, as he is one of my wrestlers, but the reality is Cernus was pretty darn good. Were the tops kids from 2016 champs better, or have better careers, maybe.  I believe a better barometer would be the number of kids going to college to wrestle.  Is that number increasing or decreasing?  

Edited by No One Famous

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2 hours ago, No One Famous said:

But you need to look at the guys in 2016, not what they did since after.  I think Asa as a freshman probably loses to Cernus.  I love Asa to death, as he is one of my wrestlers, but the reality is Cernus was pretty darn good. Were the tops kids from 2016 champs better, or have better careers, maybe.  I believe a better barometer would be the number of kids going to college to wrestle.  Is that number increasing or decreasing?  

I couldn’t agree more with this.

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9 hours ago, No One Famous said:

But you need to look at the guys in 2016, not what they did since after.  I think Asa as a freshman probably loses to Cernus.  I love Asa to death, as he is one of my wrestlers, but the reality is Cernus was pretty darn good. Were the tops kids from 2016 champs better, or have better careers, maybe.  I believe a better barometer would be the number of kids going to college to wrestle.  Is that number increasing or decreasing?  

😂

The Notorious 

I’ll make you Famous 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Avon doesn’t have 8 JV Teams, wait a minute. They might . Idk 😂

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To your original question, I do agree that overall talent is going down. Seems like it’s harder than ever to medal at BLF, but easier than ever to get to SS. Top end guys are fantastic, bottom end guys are what they always are...the guys in the middle seem to be evaporating. 

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48 minutes ago, Galagore said:

bottom end guys are what they always are...the guys in the middle seem to be evaporating. 

Uh oh....another class wrestling debate starting in 3, 2, 1...

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3 hours ago, badpta said:

Uh oh....another class wrestling debate starting in 3, 2, 1...

Promised myself I would avoid unless provoked. This is simply a genuine observation of the past few years. Won’t even type the c-word unless directly addressed on the topic (in this thread). Promise. 

 

To what I actually said, though is this an observation that you find inaccurate? Maybe it’s just an issue in our area. 

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:20 AM, PMFAN said:

A person I know, who wrestled a few years ago, loves to say that the wrestling talent is decreasing year after year. Do you agree? Just for fun, I thought I would put up the 2016 state champs vs the 2019 state champs in a duel meet to see who would win.

2016 State Champs vs 2019 State Champs

106: Asa Gracia vs Brennen Cernus

113: Colton Cummings vs Jacob Moran 

120: Drew Hildebrandt vs Brayden Littell 

 126: Brock Hudkins vs Jesse Mendez  

132: Chad Red vs Asa Garcia 

138: Brayton Lee vs Cayden Rooks 

145: Joe Lee vs Mathew Lee  

152: Trent Pruitt vs Elliott Rodgers  

160: Jacob Covaciu vs Jordan Slivka   

170: Drew Hughes vs Nick South    

182: Blake Rypel vs Carson Brewer  

195: Jake Kleimola vs Silas Allred     

220: Mason Parris vs Arthur Fowler  

285: Shawn Streck vs Dorian Keys   

This definitely does not tell if there is less talent but I think it is just fun to see who would win. IMO I had 2016 state champs winning by a lot!  44-6 to be exact

I will take the bait. 106: Cernus 8-1 113: Moran 8-3 120: Littell 3-1 126: Mendez 6-1 132: Red 5-3 138: Lee 8-2 145: Joe Lee 7-5 152: Rodgers 5-0 160: Covaciu 3-2 OT 170:  Hughes 4-3 2OT 182: Rypel 8-5 195: Allred Tech 220: Parris Fall 285: Streck Fall

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1 hour ago, Jayruss said:

I will take the bait. 106: Cernus 8-1 113: Moran 8-3 120: Littell 3-1 126: Mendez 6-1 132: Red 5-3 138: Lee 8-2 145: Joe Lee 7-5 152: Rodgers 5-0 160: Covaciu 3-2 OT 170:  Hughes 4-3 2OT 182: Rypel 8-5 195: Allred Tech 220: Parris Fall 285: Streck Fall

Not taking anything away from south, but Drew wouldn’t go into OT with him. I might make some people mad here, but Drew gets on top...it’s over

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2 hours ago, brickfor6 said:

Not taking anything away from south, but Drew wouldn’t go into OT with him. I might make some people mad here, but Drew gets on top...it’s over

I admit that was a tough one. South just seems to be a gamer so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. 

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And before Papa Garcia comes after my head Asa is by far one of my favorite Indiana High School wrestles of all-time. Cernus looked other-worldly at State and Red was ranked # 1 in the country. Asa had some tough matchups in this hypothetical. And if he wound up pulling either off I wouldn’t be shocked because he is a gamer! 

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On 9/13/2019 at 10:20 AM, PMFAN said:

A person I know, who wrestled a few years ago, loves to say that the wrestling talent is decreasing year after year. Do you agree? Just for fun, I thought I would put up the 2016 state champs vs the 2019 state champs in a duel meet to see who would win.

2016 State Champs vs 2019 State Champs

106: Asa Gracia vs Brennen Cernus

113: Colton Cummings vs Jacob Moran 

120: Drew Hildebrandt vs Brayden Littell 

 126: Brock Hudkins vs Jesse Mendez  

132: Chad Red vs Asa Garcia 

138: Brayton Lee vs Cayden Rooks 

145: Joe Lee vs Mathew Lee  

152: Trent Pruitt vs Elliott Rodgers  

160: Jacob Covaciu vs Jordan Slivka   

170: Drew Hughes vs Nick South    

182: Blake Rypel vs Carson Brewer  

195: Jake Kleimola vs Silas Allred     

220: Mason Parris vs Arthur Fowler  

285: Shawn Streck vs Dorian Keys   

This definitely does not tell if there is less talent but I think it is just fun to see who would win. IMO I had 2016 state champs winning by a lot!  44-6 to be exact

I'll take the bait

27-23 2016 wins.  I've rescored it where 2019 wins also.  I'm not looking at a career, but just that particular year that the kid won state.  

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All of these kids are great. I do know this. Been keeping my eye on our grads from last year that are going D1 (been getting updates from people in the rooms). 4 at IU and 2 at Ohio U. Proud to say they are all making it through the grind and by all accounts adjusting well. We got Littell coming to Ohio next year. I’m guessing others may end up there or at IU. Most of this years champs wrestled on teams together since early in elementary school. Looks like they are sticking together in college. Pretty cool stuff. Most of if not all of this years graduated champs are redshirting. Look for them to wrestle unattached at opens this year. They all should be at the Michigan State Open the first week of November. Mosconni and Washington should be there too. 

My point is that we have a bunch of D1 talent coming out of Indiana. Not seeing fall off. With that said.. 2016 was a REALLY tough group. Don’t know if any class would beat them. 

Edited by Mattyb

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13 hours ago, Sig40 said:

I am going 38-26 for 2016 with them taking 8 matches. 2019 gets overwhelmed by Joe, Paris, and Streck’s falls. 

I think the matches are 7 to 7 

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1 hour ago, Cosgrove said:

Nope Indiana as a whole is not decreasing. 

So you'd say your semi-state is as competitive as it's ever been? Regional?

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16 hours ago, Galagore said:

So you'd say your semi-state is as competitive as it's ever been? Regional?

Ours is 100 percent as tough as it ever has been, and only getting better with MCWA, Red Cobra, Outlaws, and Contenders kids feeding into some of the state’s best programs. 

Edited by Mattyb

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On 9/14/2019 at 8:55 AM, badpta said:

Uh oh....another class wrestling debate starting in 3, 2, 1...

NOOOOO, GOD, NO!

Edited by Jack Jones

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1 hour ago, Mattyb said:

Ours is 100 percent as tough as it ever has been, and only getting better with MCWA, Red Cobra, Outlaws, and Contenders kids feeing into some of the state’s best programs. 

Really glad to hear that. I feel like ticket round on still stacks up for the most part for us. Up to that point, though there are some good matches, but also some kids that I am not sure would have made it that far 5-10 years ago. 

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