NFHS looking to reduce weight classes

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

The PIAA(Pennsylvania) passed a proposal to submit a proposal to the NFHS to reduce the weight classes to 12. Even without the NFHS's approval they may go ahead and go to 12 weights.

Here are the weights
108, 115, 122, 128, 134, 140, 146, 152, 160, 172, 185, 215, and 285

Here is the article on the proposal
https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/sports/2019/05/sad-but-necessary-changes-could-be-coming-to-piaa-wrestling-weight-classes.html

Personally, I do not feel this fixes any issues other than putting a pretty bandaid on the problem. Bad teams will still forfeit weight classes, good teams will still have full lineups. The problems stem from the image of the sport and coaches that do not go about promoting the sport in the school. It takes a lot of work to get a program to the top and a lot more to keep it there. 

Discuss....

[ENoblewrestling 186]

Joe I agree this seems like a really bad idea.  It may artificially help with forfeit numbers, but the overall participation numbers would go way down.  I can't believe that the Pennsylvania coaches would  be pushing for it.

[WOC 61]

I agree that this proposal doesn't fix the real problem and having 16 or 32 less state qualifiers in Indiana each year is a move backwards instead of forward.

[AJ 208]

I have no problem with 13 weights, but do not understand the point in reducing it to 12.

 

Looking at these weight classes I am not even sure if it will help eliminate forfeits... I agree with Joe that we need to continue to promote our sport and our image. 

 

If something like this passes the NFHS, would Indiana follow suit?

[jetwrestling 107]

The proposal has 13 classes listed. 

Looks like they just bumped the light weights a few pounds and took out 195. 

I favor more middle weigh classes as that is where most HS kids fall. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by jetwrestling

[FCFIGHTER170 1,101]

taking opportunities away from teams with full line ups isn't the solution to the forfeit issue for teams with this issue... Many great ideas on the forum about how to get numbers out... Even college with the 197 to Hw bothers me..

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

They must not be able to count very well in Pennsylvania!

In Indiana going to 12 weights "could" reduce forfeits by 40%, but that is artificial as I don't think it would help participation numbers.

I would be all in if we had the 14 weights and we could enter two per weight at sectional in two or three weights. That would help two-fold, it would eliminate forfeits and prevent some of those that are making big weight cuts to make the varsity lineup. 

This type of rule would have a better affect on TRUE forfeits and on participation.

[FCFIGHTER170 1,101]

6 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

They must not be able to count very well in Pennsylvania!

In Indiana going to 12 weights "could" reduce forfeits by 40%, but that is artificial as I don't think it would help participation numbers.

I would be all in if we had the 14 weights and we could enter two per weight at sectional in two or three weights. That would help two-fold, it would eliminate forfeits and prevent some of those that are making big weight cuts to make the varsity lineup. 

This type of rule would have a better affect on TRUE forfeits and on participation.

I like that multiple wrestlers per weight idea! Like at wabash how they enter their guys into tourney and whomever places highest decides the rep for ncaa's...But the idea of having this at sectionals is awesome.

Edited May 22, 2019 by FCFIGHTER170

[AJ 208]

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

 

I would be all in if we had the 14 weights and we could enter two per weight at sectional in two or three weights. That would help two-fold, it would eliminate forfeits and prevent some of those that are making big weight cuts to make the varsity lineup. 

 

How would this work?

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

3 minutes ago, AJ said:

How would this work?

14 sectional entries and you can enter two at a weight if you want. Michigan does this.

[mikemorgan 61]

Utah does it as well

[Mattyb 1,746]

36 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

14 sectional entries and you can enter two at a weight if you want. Michigan does this.

This will cause even more "smaller" school kids to move to bigger schools. I know for a fact that some families with kids that go to smaller schools move to larger schools where they can ensure that they can make a line up. At these larger schools they will wrestle a better schedule, get better partners, and get better exposure (true or not.. this is the mentality of many). With this said... some people stay put because they aren't sure if they can beat a top dog at a top program. By them knowing that they don't need to beat that top dog, they are more likely to move to that bigger school. Especially, knowing the fact that they could have a chance to finish second to that kid at each level of the state tournament and be separated from him all the way through state. The rich would get richer if this happens. You may or may not think this is accurate???? Just a thought. 

[AJ 208]

53 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

14 sectional entries and you can enter two at a weight if you want. Michigan does this.

 

Does Michigan have the 5 match rule because it seems like this could possible come into play.

If we did this, then the seeding meeting statement of "he beats him in the practice room" comes into play... lol

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

17 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

This will cause even more "smaller" school kids to move to bigger schools. I know for a fact that some families with kids that go to smaller schools move to larger schools where they can ensure that they can make a line up. At these larger schools they will wrestle a better schedule, get better partners, and get better exposure (true or not.. this is the mentality of many). With this said... some people stay put because they aren't sure if they can beat a top dog at a top program. By them knowing that they don't need to beat that top dog, they are more likely to move to that bigger school. Especially, knowing the fact that they could have a chance to finish second to that kid at each level of the state tournament and be separated from him all the way through state. The rich would get richer if this happens. You may or may not think this is accurate???? Just a thought. 

It happens a lot now, not going to make a difference overall. Moving into a school to be Brayton Lee's backup is great, you just better hope the coach chooses to bench someone in favor of you for the state series.

This will help teams that have legitimate forfeits and let them get as many kids as possible to the post season. It also would help prevent some drastic weight cuts as kids at some programs know they have to cut extra weight so they can wrestle at sectional. 

10 minutes ago, AJ said:

 

Does Michigan have the 5 match rule because it seems like this could possible come into play.

If we did this, then the seeding meeting statement of "he beats him in the practice room" comes into play... lol

If he beats him in the room he would be the starter who probably got most of the matches during the season. The one potential speed bump is getting your backup that would be entered enough varsity matches for seeding along with maybe some head to head wins for seeding.

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

Here are the 12 weights they are proposing
110, 118, 125, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 190, 215, 285

https://www.pennlive.com/highschoolsports/wrestling/2019/05/piaa-will-vote-today-on-pilot-program-that-would-reduce-wrestling-weight-classes-from-14-to-12.html

[doctorWrestling 88]

Is it up to the state to decide if they want to go to that system?  If it is up to the state, I assume the IHSAA ultimately decides? 

I know Michigan opted to stay with the old weight classes when the last weight class changes happened.  I personally like the Michigan weights better because it has more weights in the middle of the line-up where there are more kids.  The only part that stinks is when we go to other states, we then lose a starter in the middle and have to fill a weight with a backup at the top.  Hopefully it is up to each state to decide and the right people are making the decisions.

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

It is up to the state, but 99% of the time states(Indiana especially) follow NFHS rules.

I believe Faulkens is on the board for the rules so I would think he would not be looked upon favorably if we did our own thing.

[infowrestling 73]

Would something like this be mandated for the 19-20 season or 20-21?

[tskin 190]

yea the amount of spots open for the football players i encourage to wrestle reduces and I would expect #'s ofr teams would reduce as well.

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

6 minutes ago, infowrestling said:

Would something like this be mandated for the 19-20 season or 20-21?

2020-21 season

[Thor 444]

8 minutes ago, infowrestling said:

Would something like this be mandated for the 19-20 season or 20-21?

This was discussed on FRL this morning that it would take a few years to implement, so probably not the next two years. 

[davecloud 192]

Agree with Joe. Cutting weight classes won't solve the problem. I know it is difficult, time consuming, often frustrating and not what we should have to do as coaches, in a perfect world. In a perfect world 50 to 60 kids would show up every year after putting in a vigorous off-season of hard work. But that's not the world we live in. I try to talk to at least one kid each day who is not in my program about going out for wrestling. We normally have close to 50 wrestlers, sometimes more, to start the season. Some of them drop out since we have a larger number of newbies but we normally end up well over 40 on the roster by Sectional. Barry Humble got huge numbers at Adams Central. It was then a very small school. It will never be easy to get large numbers but it is worth the effort. 

Let's point this discussion in a new direction. Let's hear from the coaches with solid numbers what you do to build the program.

1) As I said in my post, try to talk to at least one kid per day from the start of school until season starts (over 50 days) and from the end of the season until the end of school (about another 55). Often I will speak to the same kid several times but with all those contacts it is hard not to get at least a few extra recruits each season.

2) Coaching another sport can help. I coached high school football for over 30 years and then moved to middle school four years ago (love the shorter season that ends before Fall break!). Our middle school numbers have jumped since I get to pump the sport every day (Wow, that was a great tackle. I bet you would have a mean double leg.)

3) We have a bowling party every year after County tournament. I get a cheap trophy with a wrestler and a bowling pin on it. 

4) I make sure to get the cut lists from freshman and middle school basketball teams. We also encourage middle school basketball players to come out after the season (got IHSAA fifth and sixth place finishers that way). 

5) I send a letter to every eighth grade wrestler welcoming them to our summer program, encouraging them to play a fall sport and try to meet up with them at the start of their freshman year. Next season I am sending a recruiting e-mail to the student e-mail account of ever Why incoming freshman student (girls and boys). 

6) Get your kids exposure whenever possible. We name a Wrestler of the Meet on announcements (thanks Q!), nominate them for school programs (we have two on the Student Athletic Council), make sure to get your kids Academic All-State recognition. I make sure to fill out the recommendation forms for National Honor Society for each wrestler nominated. The Marines now have an academic certificate for wrestlers. 

There are more but I want to hear what you guys are doing. If you ever get a chance, talk to Danny Struck about building a program. His numbers are amazing and he builds a true sense of belonging for his kids. We don't need to get to 50 on the roster to succeed. If you currently have 15 and get to 20 that is big. Add one or two a year and you will have a sizable roster pretty quickly. Let's stop waiting for our ship to come in and swim out to it! 

The article uploaded below is about what teams do to build camaraderie. 

recruiting article.docx

Edited May 24, 2019 by davecloud

[V and M's Dad 88]

13 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

It is up to the state, but 99% of the time states(Indiana especially) follow NFHS rules.

I believe Faulkens is on the board for the rules so I would think he would not be looked upon favorably if we did our own thing.

We don't have wrestlebacks!!  I thinks Faulkens is okay with doing his own thing.

Edited May 24, 2019 by V and M's Dad

[ehscoach 92]

I worried that one day we would cut weight classes, but I always thought it would be by 1 to 13 so that there was a logical tie-breaker in a dual meet.

 

I always hoped they added 1 for a tie-breaker. I can’t see how cutting 2 is good for the sport. I do like the idea of 14 total wrestlers regardless of weight class on varsity.

[Y2CJ41 6,137]

12 hours ago, davecloud said:

1) As I said in my post, try to talk to at least one kid per day from the start of school until season starts (over 50 days) and from the end of the season until the end of school (about another 55). Often I will speak to the same kid several times but with all those contacts it is hard not to get at least a few extra recruits each season.

 

The problem with this is that we have many lay coaches who aren't in the building all day long. Wrestling it seems has quite a few lay coaches and that does not help with recruiting and retention of athletes.