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Congratulations forum for making it through the season withoug a major class post on class wrestling


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14 hours ago, SWINfan said:

If you split to two classes, is Mater Dei forced to wrestle with the smaller schools?  Is there any other school that voluntarily wrestles out of their "class" for the Duals State Title?  With less than 500 students, would MD kids be better off dominating "Class A" or competing with the big boys?  

If it is all about "exposure" and getting kids looked at by colleges, MD would be better off staying in the smaller class and picking a lot more individual titles and placers.  But realistically they would opt to go the bigger class like they do for team duals.

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If MD wrestled in the lower class of a theoretical individual class state tournament, in my opinion, this is how they would have placed this year.

106 -  Freeman champ

113-  Ross finalist.  Only Dalton from Monrovia was a placer from the small class

120 -  boarman champ

126 - Egli top 4 - only Watts was a placer from the lower class

132 - Egli top 4 - only Gimson and Johnson were placers from the lower class

138 - Mayer top 8 - was eliminated at SS by 5th place finisher Reynolds from Avon

145 - Lee champ

152 - Dickens champ - Highest placer among the small schools at 152

160 - Sollars top 6 - several smaller schools represented at this weight this year

170 - Parkinson top 2 - only Fielden was a higher placer from small schools

182 - Pierson SQ - Eliminated by Jasper at SS

195 - McGrew SQ - Eliminated by Martinsville at SS

220 - Boots DNQ

Hvy - Woodruff DNQ 

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48 minutes ago, MD92 said:

If it is all about "exposure" and getting kids looked at by colleges, MD would be better off staying in the smaller class and picking a lot more individual titles and placers.  But realistically they would opt to go the bigger class like they do for team duals.

This isn't about Mater Dei. Believe it or not there are 300+ schools in the state that are not called Mater Dei.

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1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

This isn't about Mater Dei. Believe it or not there are 300+ schools in the state that are not called Mater Dei.

And there was a specific question asking if MD would be forced to go into the smaller class, which I gave my opinion on.  I also gave my opinion on how I believe MD would have fared in the lower class of a two class system if it was in place this year.  Is that not allowed now?  I hope the other 300+ schools in the state can share their opinions on this matter without the snarky comments from the administration.

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2 hours ago, MD92 said:

If it is all about "exposure" and getting kids looked at by colleges, MD would be better off staying in the smaller class and picking a lot more individual titles and placers.  But realistically they would opt to go the bigger class like they do for team duals.

If this happened, please go up. South Adams needs some state champs. 

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12 minutes ago, MD92 said:

And there was a specific question asking if MD would be forced to go into the smaller class, which I gave my opinion on.  I also gave my opinion on how I believe MD would have fared in the lower class of a two class system if it was in place this year.  Is that not allowed now?  I hope the other 300+ schools in the state can share their opinions on this matter without the snarky comments from the administration.

Mater Dei would NOT be forced to stay in the small class. That is not an opinion, that is a FACT. 

Per the IHSAA By-Laws
2-3 Classification by Enrollment; Different Classes Assignment; Change Class Assignment

School enrollment figures used for classifying Schools shall be the enrollment in grades 9-12 for all students, as certified in the annual report filed with the State Department of Education in a classification year.
a. Schools with single gender enrollment shall double the certified enrollment figures for classification purposes.
b. A School may be assigned to different Classes in different sports.
c. A School shall be assigned to a Class by the IHSAA and shall enter the IHSAA tournament in that assigned Class unless it notifies the Association, in writing, that it wishes to move up One (1) or more Classes. This notification shall (1) accompany the submission of the School’s enrollment figures and (2) be effective for the succeeding Two (2) years. A School may choose to move up in a specific sport/s.

 

Now that we have Mater Dei cleared up we can focus on the other 300 schools with wrestling.

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5 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Mater Dei would NOT be forced to stay in the small class. That is not an opinion, that is a FACT. 

Per the IHSAA By-Laws
2-3 Classification by Enrollment; Different Classes Assignment; Change Class Assignment

School enrollment figures used for classifying Schools shall be the enrollment in grades 9-12 for all students, as certified in the annual report filed with the State Department of Education in a classification year.
a. Schools with single gender enrollment shall double the certified enrollment figures for classification purposes.
b. A School may be assigned to different Classes in different sports.
c. A School shall be assigned to a Class by the IHSAA and shall enter the IHSAA tournament in that assigned Class unless it notifies the Association, in writing, that it wishes to move up One (1) or more Classes. This notification shall (1) accompany the submission of the School’s enrollment figures and (2) be effective for the succeeding Two (2) years. A School may choose to move up in a specific sport/s.

 

Now that we have Mater Dei cleared up we can focus on the other 300 schools with wrestling.

Well aware of that, thanks.  I was giving my opinion on what would/could happen if there was ever a split to the individual tournament.  At no time did I say it was a fact.  In fact, I believe that MD would continue in the larger class just as they do with the dual state tournament, which I clearly stated in my original post.  My second post was merely, again MY OPINION, on how things could have played out this year if there were two classes and if MD opted to stay in their enrollment class.

And since one of your main arguments for class wrestling is that it would give more exposure to kids from smaller schools, I figured it was entirely appropriate to voice my opinion on how MD could have fared this year is such a system.  Being in their assigned enrollment class would certainly give more exposure (i.e. state medals) to several more MD kids.  Don't you agree?

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29 minutes ago, MD92 said:

Well aware of that, thanks.  I was giving my opinion on what would/could happen if there was ever a split to the individual tournament.  At no time did I say it was a fact.  In fact, I believe that MD would continue in the larger class just as they do with the dual state tournament, which I clearly stated in my original post.  My second post was merely, again MY OPINION, on how things could have played out this year if there were two classes and if MD opted to stay in their enrollment class.

And since one of your main arguments for class wrestling is that it would give more exposure to kids from smaller schools, I figured it was entirely appropriate to voice my opinion on how MD could have fared this year is such a system.  Being in their assigned enrollment class would certainly give more exposure (i.e. state medals) to several more MD kids.  Don't you agree?

Thanks for your awesome insight on how Mater Dei would do. Everyone was extremely curious, but since you did the math you showed that Mater Dei would do extremely well against small schools. Without your indepth analysis we would have never known.

Now let's focus on the small schools that had an average of 4.3 forfeits per school this year. 

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4 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Thanks for your awesome insight on how Mater Dei would do. Everyone was extremely curious, but since you did the math you showed that Mater Dei would do extremely well against small schools. Without your indepth analysis we would have never known.

Now let's focus on the small schools that had an average of 4.3 forfeits per school this year. 

So opinions on hypothetical issues/scenarios involving MD are not accepted here.  Got it.  Keep fighting the good fight.

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Poor Guy .... R.I.P. from this Topic. Tried his best. You get Nothing . 

Moment of Silence 

14 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Thanks for your awesome insight on how Mater Dei would do. Everyone was extremely curious, but since you did the math you showed that Mater Dei would do extremely well against small schools. Without your indepth analysis we would have never known.

Now let's focus on the small schools that had an average of 4.3 forfeits per school this year. 

Yea... what @TripleB says . Yea do that  

 

The Notorious 

Edited by TeamGarcia
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6 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Here, this is a fact....

Year Teams Forfeits Per team
2019 307 1014 3.30
2018 311 981 3.15
2017 308 845 2.74
2016 308 860 2.79
2015 308 740 2.40
2014      
2013 312 649 2.08
2012 312 684 2.19
2011 312 617 1.98

Don't get sucked in....don't get sucked in....don't reply...don't reply...let it go...UGH!!!!!!!!!!

If our main issue is the increase in forfeits, instead of classing the schools, why don't we just eliminate a weight class or two? Seems to me that would possibly alleviate that issue than hoping if small school students see their buddies walking around with a medal it will make them want to go out?

Don't hit send....just delete...don't hit send..

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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4 minutes ago, UncleJimmy said:

Don't get sucked in....don't get sucked in....don't reply...don't reply...let it go...UGH!!!!!!!!!!

If our main issue is the increase in forfeits, instead of classing the schools, why don't we just eliminate a weight class or two? Seems to me that would possibly alleviate that issue than hoping if small school students see their buddies walking around with a medal it will make them want to go out?

Don't hit send....just delete...don't hit send..

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Addition by subtraction?

Eliminating opportunities won't help overall participation numbers. Forfeits are a direct correlation to participation numbers.

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18 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Here, this is a fact....

Year Teams Forfeits Per team
2019 307 1014 3.30
2018 311 981 3.15
2017 308 845 2.74
2016 308 860 2.79
2015 308 740 2.40
2014      
2013 312 649 2.08
2012 312 684 2.19
2011 312 617 1.98

Sorry...didn't see participation numbers on here and I thought in a previous iteration of this discussion were stats showing that statewide participation was up. Apologies if that was not the case. But if participation numbers statewide were up, and forfeits up then I'd say addition by subtraction would be a viable option, as compared to giving out medals and hoping friends take notice.

DANG IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP HITTING SEND........

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4 minutes ago, UncleJimmy said:

Sorry...didn't see participation numbers on here and I thought in a previous iteration of this discussion were stats showing that statewide participation was up. Apologies if that was not the case. But if participation numbers statewide were up, and forfeits up then I'd say addition by subtraction would be a viable option, as compared to giving out medals and hoping friends take notice.

DANG IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP HITTING SEND........

Per the IHSAA participation was up by around 1000 wrestlers(3 per team) from 2017 to 2018. However we also had the highest jump in forfeits that year also. Something doesn't add up.

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19 minutes ago, Bigyusm said:

Of the Placers how many were Large schools ? Over 690 students - 

How many of the 8 who lost Friday were from small Schools ? 

  Qual Placers 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th
1A 55 25 2 2 4 2 2 1 5 7
2A 169 87 12 12 10 12 12 13 9 7
                     
1A 31 12 1 1 1 0 1 1 3 4
2A 53 28 2 3 4 4 3 4 3 5
3A 140 72 11 10 9 10 10 9 8 5

Added 3 classes to show the separation of the bottom 100 from the rest of the state.

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