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Gasman

Rules question

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With the intentional head-butt by brewer last night that lead to a potential broken nose/ concussion to Donahue, if the blood time runs out for Donahue would he win if it was due to the illegal move by Brewer? 

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7 hours ago, Gasman said:

With the intentional head-butt by brewer last night that lead to a potential broken nose/ concussion to Donahue, if the blood time runs out for Donahue would he win if it was due to the illegal move by Brewer? 

Wow!!! Gasman needs to quit smelling the fumes... I guess your a mind reader who can tell the difference between an intentional action vs fast paced action...I see you can also diagnose a concussion and broken nose from the stands! Wrestling is a fast paced contact sport,unfortunately unintentional headbutts happen...and intentional headbutts or other illegal action get dealt with proper use of the rules! Last time I checked a Point was awarded, so some people need to grow up and quit being sore losers...that match could probably be wrestled over multiple times with same result, best kid won! Move On!

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51 minutes ago, Matdad said:

Wow!!! Gasman needs to quit smelling the fumes... I guess your a mind reader who can tell the difference between an intentional action vs fast paced action...I see you can also diagnose a concussion and broken nose from the stands! Wrestling is a fast paced contact sport,unfortunately unintentional headbutts happen...and intentional headbutts or other illegal action get dealt with proper use of the rules! Last time I checked a Point was awarded, so some people need to grow up and quit being sore losers...that match could probably be wrestled over multiple times with same result, best kid won! Move On!

Let's take some words out of his post and I think there is a legitimate question in there.  Remove "intentional" and "potential broken nose/concusssion".

The valid question is......  Since it was penalized, what would the outcome have been if Donahue could not have continued?  Would it be different if he couldn't continue immediately or if it became a blood issue that couldn't be worked around/stopped?  

If we turn this into a rules question using this as a case study, then I believe it is perfectly legit.  

Would love to hear from any officials or rules experts on that.

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Once the original blood time issue is stopped and the wrestler is cleared to  continue then the matter is over.  If later in the match the blood begins again that would be treated as a seperete incident and this time one that was not due to a penalized move.  So, yes if he would have ran out of blood time later due to the bleeding beginning again then Donahue would have forfeited the match.  

 

All I can say is clean up time is virtually unlimited, so take the time to really try to block the area as good as possible in order to limit the amount of times bleeding may reoccur.  Most of the times what really causes blood time to add up is a quick return to the mat the first and second time bleeding begins without taking a little more time to block the effected area better.  You can stop all the issues but in many cases more can be done to limit the amount of reoccurances. 

Edited by MattM

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2 hours ago, Matdad said:

Wow!!! Gasman needs to quit smelling the fumes... I guess your a mind reader who can tell the difference between an intentional action vs fast paced action...I see you can also diagnose a concussion and broken nose from the stands! Wrestling is a fast paced contact sport,unfortunately unintentional headbutts happen...and intentional headbutts or other illegal action get dealt with proper use of the rules! Last time I checked a Point was awarded, so some people need to grow up and quit being sore losers...that match could probably be wrestled over multiple times with same result, best kid won! Move On!

Talk about wow!!! I would say he said "intentional" as there was penalty given. I too wondered the same question as gasman. Take a deep breath and enjoy life.

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Actually a Penalty has nothing to do with intentional or not...only with whether an alleged violation occurred...I could attempt to put a hand on the head an unintentionally touch face or eyes and be penalized...BTW I’m perfectly chill and enjoy life just fine thanks. Just find it weak and classless to put down kids!

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16 hours ago, Matdad said:

Wow!!! Gasman needs to quit smelling the fumes... I guess your a mind reader who can tell the difference between an intentional action vs fast paced action...I see you can also diagnose a concussion and broken nose from the stands! Wrestling is a fast paced contact sport,unfortunately unintentional headbutts happen...and intentional headbutts or other illegal action get dealt with proper use of the rules! Last time I checked a Point was awarded, so some people need to grow up and quit being sore losers...that match could probably be wrestled over multiple times with same result, best kid won! Move On!

Ha! You’re probably right the gas is getting to me, but I have a couple  of problems with your post:

1. You’re right I don’t know exactly what he was thinking but in a jury of his peers he was booed significantly after the incident. This would lead me to conclude that many people including a referee that has to have years of wrestling experience to ref in that arena to agree that it was intentional. BTW you admitted fault in your arguement by saying that intentional head butts should be and did get penalized. 

 

2. I did not diagnose anything. I said that the action had the potential to do those things. What I do know is that it lead to a nose bleed that was extremely hard to stop by trained professionals.

3. Brewer is not a “kid” he is of adult age and could fight in the military right now if he wanted to. Donahue is a kid, he still has to ride a bicycle to go anywhere he wants to. 

just an FYI I am a completely unbiased fan that wants the best for Indiana wrestling. I honestly don’t care who wins I was simply asking a rules question, but you responded with such vitriol as if I attacked you. 

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9 hours ago, Gasman said:

Ha! You’re probably right the gas is getting to me, but I have a couple  of problems with your post:

1. You’re right I don’t know exactly what he was thinking but in a jury of his peers he was booed significantly after the incident. This would lead me to conclude that many people including a referee that has to have years of wrestling experience to ref in that arena to agree that it was intentional. BTW you admitted fault in your arguement by saying that intentional head butts should be and did get penalized. 

 

2. I did not diagnose anything. I said that the action had the potential to do those things. What I do know is that it lead to a nose bleed that was extremely hard to stop by trained professionals.

3. Brewer is not a “kid” he is of adult age and could fight in the military right now if he wanted to. Donahue is a kid, he still has to ride a bicycle to go anywhere he wants to. 

just an FYI I am a completely unbiased fan that wants the best for Indiana wrestling. I honestly don’t care who wins I was simply asking a rules question, but you responded with such vitriol as if I attacked you. 

Sorry I’m just a passionate parent who doesn’t want kids put down on a public forum...BTW If you read my earlier post...assessing a penalty does not have anything to do with intentional or not...One can  unintentionally break rules and can still be assessed a penalty point. Either way Brewer didn’t deserve the boos! Ive seen matches where kids do illegal intentional stuff (they usually get DQ’d)

I don’t know how old Brewer is and I doubt you do either...he may be a young senior, don’t know but obviously he is eligible to compete so it really doesn’t matter...either way still in high school in amateur sports and competing like everyone else and shouldn’t be booed or put down. 

Nothing personal towards you...I just don’t believe we should be attacking any of these competitors(kids) many of whom read these posts. You wouldn’t want someone to talk that way about your kid(s)...(if you have any)...as I said earlier don’t know either of them personally so I’m not emotionally invested...just next time ask the rules question without the negative assumptions on the kids. 

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Crowd was booing because they showed the replay & it sure looked intentional. Brewer ducked & the crown of his head went directly into his opponent's face with a lot of force. The ref immediately awarded 1 penalty point & I don't recall much of an argument from his coaches.

 

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