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JMILL

2019 MS Heartland Duals Gold and Blue Teams

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Wrestle off's!!!  Best way to decide on the teams... Put the kids on the mat.  That is what is so great about this sport.  One on one.

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Heartland had 12 less teams than last year, if that trend continues next year it will be in the teens. Way too much money to spend for 6 matches.Why not try a different tournament? Compound Indy kids will proudly defend their national title next year. Every team in Kingsport knew that the very best by far was a group of indiana kids! They don't need "team Indiana" in their name to win a national title. Its all about the kids and Indiana wrestling. Indiana has always had the kids to win and people see this now. The kids deserve better!

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1 hour ago, K.hudd said:

Heartland had 12 less teams than last year, if that trend continues next year it will be in the teens. Way too much money to spend for 6 matches.Why not try a different tournament? Compound Indy kids will proudly defend their national title next year. Every team in Kingsport knew that the very best by far was a group of indiana kids! They don't need "team Indiana" in their name to win a national title. Its all about the kids and Indiana wrestling. Indiana has always had the kids to win and people see this now. The kids deserve better!

there was a winter storm that prevented a few teams and states from travelling, as happens every year a few teams may have chosen another option but you are kidding yourself if you think "the trend will continue".   

You have to tell yourself whatever helps you believe it K.hudd but the bottome line is seperating the talent made both teams less competitive.  You and I can certainly debate this any night at CWA but you know as I do where most of the other states gold level teams were at that weekend.

I am on board all day long with teams going to Kingsport to get in a different tournament, but when our state enters Heartland to put our best national team together and that doesnt happen its a dissapointment to all and it should be to you also.

I would venture to guess your comment about not needing "team indiana" is more of a reflection on your personal opinions based on my observations of your level of loyalty to any one club, organization or academy.

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Well let me tell you something brother.....

I didn’t even know AAU wrestling still existed, that’s cute, good for them. 

I just took my third trip in 4 years to Heartland. I have zero personal investment and I spend a ton of money. I go because I want to see Indiana compete on a national level. It helps, it helps w recruiting, it helps w exposure, it’s helps w everything. I’m about “Team Indiana” and growing the state because when the dads come and go w their kids, I’ll still be here plugging along trying to raise the level of wrestling in Indiana.

 Heading to some AAU dual in a sweaty gym in nowhere TN is nothing more than medal chasing. 

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52 minutes ago, JMILL said:

 

I would venture to guess your comment about not needing "team indiana" is more of a reflection on your personal opinions based on my observations of your level of loyalty to any one club, organization or academy.

 

 

This is an interesting paragraph. 

Jmill are you saying that wrestling with Team Indiana has something to do with whether you have loyalty to a certain club or academy?

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6 minutes ago, graham said:

 

 

This is an interesting paragraph. 

Jmill are you saying that wrestling with Team Indiana has something to do with whether you have loyalty to a certain club or academy?

nope not at all.... that was something in response to K.Hudd saying he didnt need team IN .... he knows what it means.   

Mr Graham i am 100% confident in the fact that you can read between the lines and know what this disagreement is all about with the parties involved.

I have nothing but respect for you and your son.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, JMILL said:

nope not at all.... that was something in response to K.Hudd saying he didnt need team IN .... he knows what it means.   

Mr Graham i am 100% confident in the fact that you can read between the lines and know what this disagreement is all about with the parties involved.

I have nothing but respect for you and your son.

 

Thank you for the sentiment. Much respect to Logan and his success!

Now on the matter at hand....

I think I am reading between the lines. I’m sorry but I just don’t see how Team Indiana and loyalty to a certain club or academy have anything to do with each other.  

 

Edited by graham

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1st thanks.  appreciate that man !!!

 

truthtime.... some people have no sense of loyalty to anything and it runs across the board state, teams, schools, clubs.... etc. thats all

So when people post their opinions on here thats all they are is opinions and not facts or truths and they should all be considered given the source.

This splitting teams idea is something that has been going on for a long time and thats a fact.... it has made the heartland teams weaker every year and thats a fact.

Heartland is the USA wrestling national tournament so if we are going to put our best foot and team forward then we have to have 100% buy in..... anything less than 100% is simply hurting our chances to contend with the other state top teams.   

I am all for teams giving kids mat time and opportunities to wrestle in kingsport..... all i am saying is as a state we need to have our top kids (elem and MS) in heartland.

There are other factors at work here why people are going to kingsport.   call me sometime and i can certainly tell you my opinion why.

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Men,

I love the passion for the little guys.

Here it is in nut shell.

There is a long history of Indiana teams going to the AAU event in Kingsport. The event is at a high school and ran on a handful of mats. It is a pretty cool event. Coach Jim Humphrey and others were taking "unofficial" team Indiana teams to this event for years (it was a 5th grade and under event). Bout 10 years ago, Brandi Cash decided that she wanted to unite the elementary wrestling community. So Mrs. Cash had a elementary team qualifier at Ben Davis High School. She took two really great teams to Kingsport that year. Those teams had several IHSAA state champs on them. After that, a few of us took random teams down there. The following year, the ISWA approached me, and asked if I would accept the newly created board position of Folk style Developmental Director (currently held by Ryan Parrish). As the director, I tried as hard as I could to unite all academies and clubs to put together the best teams. I was NOT successful in doing so. I did the best that I could do, and created the current wrestle off format for the "official" team Indiana. It was very fair and allows kids to make the team in one of two weights. It was set up to ensure that we could field our very best teams. With that said, some people refused to wrestle with each other (Apparently this will NEVER change). Even with the riffs between clubs, that first ISWA sponsored elementary national team took 3rd there. At that time, the AAU nationals were the very best elementary duals in the USA. That was the best showing by Indiana until this year. Hats of to this years group, that broke our record. 

That same year USAW started the Heartland duals in Omaha Nebraska. It was held in a state of the art arena and was a USAW event. It was also 6th grade and under. For these reasons, the ISWA decided to send the ISWA team Indiana to this event (the ISWA is affiliated with USAW). I can honestly say that the competition, venue, and organization of the Heartland event was superior to that of Kingsport. With that said... the following year AAU did raise the age of the Kingsport event to 6th grade and under to try to compete with Heartland. The first year at Heartland, our team took 3rd (which remains a record for an Indiana team). Since then, the Heartland Duals have been moved to Council Bluffs, IA. The venue, quality of wrestling, and organization has gotten even better. 

Now to the cost... When I / We started these trips, the cost was $140 for gear and entry fee. Since then, the cost has gone up. I really would like to see some sponsorships and the cost reduced. With that said.. I always handed out sponsorship letters for each team member to use to raise funds (pre go fund me). The majority of kids that actually sent the fund raising letters to friends and family, got most expenses covered. With that said.. I agree with reducing cost. 

I personally think that Heartland is a better trip, and is the top elementary duals in the USA. I can also see why the other guys choose to go to Kingsport. Its a fun trip, and sounds like it was more cost effective. 

Bottom line is this. Everyone is going to do what they think is best for THEIR kids. Personally.. I will NEVER knock anybody for doing so. I would LOVE to see an united team Indiana, but know it will NEVER happen. And that is OK!!!! Getting on here and saying "our team or trip was awesome" and knocking the other side is not cool (for either side). Most of these kids are clueless to these issues, and can care less. As a team leader and a parent of a kid that has been through it all, I really hope that all of these kids get the same thing that my son got out of these trips. He has made life long bonds. I truly believe that these trips set the tone for most of the success that he has experienced in middle school and beyond. My hats off to all team leaders, parents, and wrestlers that made both trips. I hope that you all have made memories that wont be soon forgotten. Furthermore, I hope that these trips lead your wrestlers to achieve their future goals and much much more. 

Enough of the silly stuff men. It is what it is. 

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12 minutes ago, JMILL said:

 

truthtime.... some people have no sense of loyalty to anything and it runs across the board state, teams, schools, clubs.... etc. thats all

Yes, of course that is true. 

But if getting the best team to Heartland  is what the goal is, then loyalty to one entity and one entity only should be considered.  

And that is loyalty to the state of Indiana. 

Not a club or academy. 

12 minutes ago, JMILL said:

This splitting teams idea is something that has been going on for a long time and thats a fact.... it has made the heartland teams weaker every year and thats a fact.

I am not as experienced as you are in putting wrestling teams together, obviously. 

But I have quite a bit of experience in a similar situation and when factions are present in a state based effort, this pisses people off and they revolt and start their own thing.  And yes, this dilutes the overall quality. 

I know there are other reasons why people start their own thing. And I know in this case different people had different reasons. 

But if you went back to the beginning of splitting dual teams in Indiana and looked through to today, I’d bet a dollar to a dime this would be the number one reason.  Factions, and a lack of unity. 

12 minutes ago, JMILL said:

Heartland is the USA wrestling national tournament so if we are going to put our best foot and team forward then we have to have 100% buy in..... anything less than 100% is simply hurting our chances to contend with the other state top teams.

I agree with you on this. I think bringing the best teams to Heartland on that weekend is the best thing for Indiana wrestling since it is through USA Wrestling. 

 

 

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Well... this escalated quickly!  As a parent of a wrestler that has been through the entire elementary wrestling scene and now the middle school scene, I feel like I have seen and heard it all at this point on the youth level.  I think we can all agree and understand that every parent wants to do what they think is best for their child.  I have had to make numerous decisions on what tournaments to attend, what teams to wrestle for, what weekends to take off, etc and make those decisions fully knowing that some people will be upset with the choices that I make.  I guess its all "part of the game." 

With that being said, I do understand the idea JMILL is trying to make about loyalty.  There have absolutely been teams, coaches, organizations that have provided opportunities over the years that have been invaluable.  As my son has gotten better and better, I still try to help those groups or people out when we can.  The ISWA being one of those groups.  I don't agree or like every decision the ISWA has made over the years, but I also appreciate dearly the opportunities they have provided for my son.  I also know they are going to continue to provided outstanding opportunities for my son in the coming years, both on the mat and off.  Over the course of an entire year, I see it as a privilege and honor to go wrestle for Team Indiana at the Heartland Duals for one weekend.  My son loves the trip and I do to.  We have always had great competition at this dual and the friendships made at the arena and hotel will last a lifetime for us.  Even if the wrestling wasn't at the highest level (though I would argue that it is...), what is problem with taking one weekend to support our state association?  There are 51 other weekends available to go wrestle at what you perceive to be a "better tournament",  We have wrestled at every national tournament you can image and even multiple tournaments overseas.  Ask my son to rank his top five experiences, and I can guarantee Heartland Duals would make that list.  

So I guess what I am most confused by, are the lines by K,hudd that "the kids deserve better" and "we don't need 'Team Indiana' to win a national title".   I strongly feel the kids aren't issue in this statement, this is a parent issue.  Every weekend of the year you can go wrestle at a "national tournament' and gain the title "National Champion" without Team Indiana even remotely being apart of that experience.  However, if you look at the long road and big picture, you will need "Team Indiana" on your singlet to go compete for a true national title that matters at Fargo...  However, to each their own.  Like I said previously, we all have to make decisions that we feel are best for our kid at the time and not everyone will agree with them.  I agree with Mattyb though... don't come on to a thread celebrating what one group did and disparage that group, this behavior won't help resolve any unity issues!

Just my two worthless cents...

Jason Schoeff

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I second what Jason said.  This was my son's 1st and hopefully not last time to wrestle for Team Indiana.  He expressed what a great honor it was to wear the Indiana singlet and to wrestle with kids from all across the state.  He has been talking with his Team Indiana team mates all week and they are still talking about the Heartland Duals trip.  He has stated many times this week that he wants Team Indiana to be in that Championship match & to battle for the National Title.  It is about pride and getting Indiana to the top.  

Let's work together and put the best Team Indiana out there no matter what level (MS or Elementary) that the state can put on the mat.

Not sure if that is 2 cents or a penny Jason!!

 

Dave Doster  

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The weight cutting on the MS State tournament to making weight at Heartlands isn’t a “real” issue. 

The problem is that, it’s a bad weekend. UWW team trials, Heartland, & Kingsport is all on the same weekend plus FloNats the next weekend...transition from one style to the next.

Just like Jason, my son has been to all these National duals.

In my opinion Kingsport is a great tooth chipper tournament, and while it’s not a USAW event, it’s well worth going if you have never been. 

Heartlands is a great tournament, great chance to put “Indiana’s best” out on the mat. It’s a fun trip.

I did have a big problem with the head salesman @ Miller’s Used Cars...HA

I’d hate to ever owe that guy money!!!

Heres the thing, we decided to take our son to the UWW team trials. It’s the same weekend as Kingsport and Heartland, but that’s what was best for our son. 

It wasn’t a weight cut thing as 68KG is a lower weight than the Heartland weight he was qualified for. 

I’m as loyal a guy as you’ll find, BUT I believe loyalty isn’t the concern...is this about entry fees, egos, control, BS????

It’s not a loyalty issue, there were 3 great tournaments on the same weekend...at the end of the day, you do what’s best for your own!!!

This is truth...this is in no way, shape or form “Trophy Chasing” it’s about constantly showing your wrestler where the bar is at. At all 3 of these tournaments there are top level kids.

I constantly try to put my kids in the fire, get them beat up, show them where the bar is!!!

Because at the end of the day, what are we trying to do?????

We are making young men that can succeed in life and this sport...that’s all!!

It’s not about money, entry fees, gear fees, egos, or an organization, etc  although a lot feel that it is. 

IT’S ABOUT THESE KIDS... THAT’S ALL!!!!!!

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Blumafia said:

I did have a big problem with the head salesman @ Miller’s Used Cars...HA

I’d hate to ever owe that guy money!!!

Hahahahahahaha, @Blumafia I hope you are just kidding about this right ?

 

6 hours ago, Blumafia said:

Heres the thing, we decided to take our son to the UWW team trials. It’s the same weekend as Kingsport and Heartland, but that’s what was best for our son. 

I have no issue with this.  For the certain kids that opted to goto UWW I think it was a great experience and option and opportunity !!!!   It just sucked that it happened to be on the same weekend, but that is just the way it goes sometimes.  I truly wanted every kid that went to that to represent IN and USA in the next step so that is not what I had issue with and I hope and trust you know that.

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18 hours ago, JMILL said:

Hahahahahahaha, @Blumafia I hope you are just kidding about this right ?

 

I have no issue with this.  For the certain kids that opted to goto UWW I think it was a great experience and option and opportunity !!!!   It just sucked that it happened to be on the same weekend, but that is just the way it goes sometimes.  I truly wanted every kid that went to that to represent IN and USA in the next step so that is not what I had issue with and I hope and trust you know that.

I heard that UWW 15U will be combined with UWW 16U at FloNationals next year. So it will not be the same weekend as Heartland next year. 

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7 hours ago, Sig40 said:

I heard that UWW 15U will be combined with UWW 16U at FloNationals next year. So it will not be the same weekend as Heartland next year. 

They just said on FRL today that the U17(UWW Cadet) specifically will be earlier due to U17 Worlds being a lot earlier next year. There will be some big changes due to an earlier than usual Olympics. 

Indiana may have an advantage with our folkstyle state series being so early and we can start training earlier for that event.

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One thing that might resolve some issues is expanded sponsorship of ISWA teams.  If ISWA can line up sponsors so that "Team Indiana" events are virtually free for the wrestlers and their families, then you would take away the cost argument and may start seeing some families that have earned a spot but can't afford the trip begin to participate more.

Wrestling has a lot of successful, extremely loyal alumni. I think it would be appealing to know you are sponsoring the official "Team Indiana" and be able to show a lineup of events they are raising money for.

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2 hours ago, base said:

One thing that might resolve some issues is expanded sponsorship of ISWA teams.  If ISWA can line up sponsors so that "Team Indiana" events are virtually free for the wrestlers and their families, then you would take away the cost argument and may start seeing some families that have earned a spot but can't afford the trip begin to participate more.

Wrestling has a lot of successful, extremely loyal alumni. I think it would be appealing to know you are sponsoring the official "Team Indiana" and be able to show a lineup of events they are raising money for.

Agreed, I think we should be able to land a corporate sponsor for Heartland teams. 

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I have had the opportunity to coach at Kingsport twice for Team North Carolina when my nephews (Who wrestle at Campbell now) were on the team and have coached both the elem and middle school teams at Heartland over last couple years.  Both tourneys has their shares of studs but I would say for the depth and overall talent level of the teams Heartland wins it going away.  Kingsport is a neat tourney and I agree would be a great meet to introduce our kids new to national level competition too.

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On 4/26/2019 at 9:01 AM, base said:

One thing that might resolve some issues is expanded sponsorship of ISWA teams.  If ISWA can line up sponsors so that "Team Indiana" events are virtually free for the wrestlers and their families, then you would take away the cost argument and may start seeing some families that have earned a spot but can't afford the trip begin to participate more.

Wrestling has a lot of successful, extremely loyal alumni. I think it would be appealing to know you are sponsoring the official "Team Indiana" and be able to show a lineup of events they are raising money for.

This is a great idea and I know Keith Davidson has talked about looking into sponsorships like this when he was getting into the president role of the ISWA.  I know he has created a sponsorship board position and I would imagine they have been looking into this to help offset the cost for our Indiana athletes.  Not sure of details because I am not on the board but I guarantee they would welcome the input or help on this. 

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