Jump to content
navy80

Carmel Disciplined for Sauna Suits

Recommended Posts

Indy news sources reporting Carmel wrestlers forfeiting 19 matches this year for using illegal sauna suits.  

But all wrestlers still allowed to wrestle in sectionals. 

We could potentially see an 0-19 record on a state ranked kid? 

I used a sauna suit in early 2000‚Äôs. When did they become illegal?ūü§Ē

Edited by navy80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was over 10 years ago they made the plastics  illegal for safety concerns.  We used to wear those all the time back in the day.   

I heard the individual record changes caused some, lets call it seeding anamolies in the sectional bracket.   Carmel has some good wrestlers for sure,  and they are now way underseeded as a result.   It probably will hurt some of the other wrestlers in the sectional bracket more than Carmel,  as they will draw a lower seeded Carmel wrestler, but  wouldn't have drawn the Carmel wrestler with the real records of the Carmel wrestlers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, navy80 said:

Indy news sources reporting Carmel wrestlers forfeiting 19 matches this year for using illegal sauna suits.  

But all wrestlers still allowed to wrestle in sectionals. 

We could potentially see an 0-19 record on a state ranked kid? 

I used a sauna suit in early 2000‚Äôs. When did they become illegal?ūü§Ē

I believe that became illegal in the 80's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"forced to forfeit matches throughout 19 different competitions during the season" 

Does that mean it happened on 19 separate occasions (as in repeat violations), or that Carmel found out about 19 incidents all at once and then self reported?     

C'mon, Man!   someone needs to write "no details" next to this story like dual results. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Soooo....Carmel gets to put together a word document correcting who they say broke the rules?  On 19 different occasions.   No more, no less.     And as best I can tell the seeding at sections changed not one bit.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, pritchem said:

Soooo....Carmel gets to put together a word document correcting who they say broke the rules?  On 19 different occasions.   No more, no less.     And as best I can tell the seeding at sections changed not one bit.   

As a coach when doing seeding if you put a legitimate top kid lower you will hurt your kid more than you think will help them. Making them unseeded means they will draw into the top 1 or 2 seed early and thus "capturing" that seed and then knocking a top seed to the consolations earlier than expected. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, pritchem said:

Soooo....Carmel gets to put together a word document correcting who they say broke the rules?  On 19 different occasions.   No more, no less.     And as best I can tell the seeding at sections changed not one bit.   

The records recorded on track (Frankfort Sectional) reflect more losses than what are recorded on the spread sheets above. This looks like a mess. Not good for sure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

As a coach when doing seeding if you put a legitimate top kid lower you will hurt your kid more than you think will help them. Making them unseeded means they will draw into the top 1 or 2 seed early and thus "capturing" that seed and then knocking a top seed to the consolations earlier than expected. 

That is a fair point.     The Patriots didn't win because the balls were underinflated and the Carmel doesn't dominate because they wore sweat suits.  They just both happen to be elite teams and fun to take a jab at sometimes.   They will bounce back from this. 

Edited by pritchem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm saddened to read this. Maybe there's another side to the story, but these are experienced coaches who definitely should know better.

I'm happy the kids are allowed to wrestle sectionals, especially the seniors.

Hope they don't re-seed the sectionals.  That may penalize some of the Carmel kids, but also more likely will penalize the other kids who are now "seeded" and will be upset by the non-seeded wrestler.

All in all, what a mess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plastics were legal in the 80's and 90's.  I can't remember the exact year that the University of Michigan deaths occurred but that was the time of the rule change.  Carmel has some very good wrestlers and should easily win their sectional.  I would hope that the seeds do not change since they should be based on skill and head-to-head (not forfeits).   Changing seeds would hurt other wrestlers, not the wrestlers who broke the rules.  I would have voted to suspend the coaches for the state tournament series, they know better!    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to make it a federal offense but...

If I had a "decent" kid at say 145 (be it sectional/regional/SS/S) and he's going against the Carmel kid (again theoretical weight..could be any weight) and my kid gets taken out say in ticket round by the Carmel 145. If I was a coach I think I would want to look at the weight loss plan for the Carmel kid, no? What if one or more of his qualifying weigh ins, and more importantly his scratch one, came during the period when the #SuanaSuit was used? Seems to me that just wouldn't be right or fair, no? Maybe he doesn't make 145 without the aid of the illegal #SuanaSuit and thus should not have been entered in the 145lb class at all? I dunno...just seems we should be past this kind of issue nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Appears to be no changes in seeds.  For example, the 106 bracket has Chundi (18-12) seeded over Anthony Elijah (22-0).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a better way of saying this was that of the 19 matches involved, Carmel had at least one wrestler that was penalized for wearing suits and only those wrestlers had their match record changed.

And for the  8 wrestlers that were involved,   they were not penalized for every match in that 19 match range, but had to forfeit in just the some of the matches meaning they didn't wear Sauna suits before every match and must be just only being penalized when they were identified to have worn suits.

So what that said above,  records weren't changed that dramatically as compared to what it looks like.   I kind of thought originally they had to at least take a loss in all 19 matches.

 

IMO- I know its a tough administrative call,  but Im glad the wresters get to participate in sectionals.   I think its a good learning moment for the whole wrestling community,  and no need to throw the total book at these guys and make them sacrificial lambs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Galagore said:

Don't mean to make light, but the first time I read this thread (and a few times while reading the thread) I thought "sauna" was "santa" at first glance...

When I read it, I was checkin' it twice too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Is that an intentional "Santa" pun,   Maligned checkin his list twice like Santa to see is naughty  or nice.

 

ūüėČ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FC118 said:

Plastics were legal in the 80's and 90's.  I can't remember the exact year that the University of Michigan deaths occurred but that was the time of the rule change.  Carmel has some very good wrestlers and should easily win their sectional.  I would hope that the seeds do not change since they should be based on skill and head-to-head (not forfeits).   Changing seeds would hurt other wrestlers, not the wrestlers who broke the rules.  I would have voted to suspend the coaches for the state tournament series, they know better!    

no. I wrestled in the 80's. they were not legal at that time.

Here is a story from 1985 that confirms there were not legal.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/wellness/1985/11/27/wrestling-to-make-weight/b86b3727-278c-4e82-831c-83f9bf937355/?utm_term=.e6e0122ca3f3

Edited by chambers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

√ó
√ó
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.