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Nebraska at Penn State Jan 20th - Chad Red vs Nick Lee Round 2

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1 hour ago, Indysportsfan said:

I was typing the same thing -- it was obvious that Red's game-plan was to play defense as long as possible and hopefully get a TD at the end to seal the deal.

Same thing for the state finals. He wanted no part of forcing the action against Lee then and still doesn’t now. Difference is, proper officiating can change the outcome of a match. 

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50 minutes ago, hook and half said:

Loved it when Lee climbed up on the rail at Rec Hall and flexed to the audience.  How about when Lee’s dad ran in front of the TV camera and posed?

 

Exciting!

You’re seriously going to try and compare a win at a dual meet in Rec Hall to a win that capped off an undefeated career and fourth state championship in front of a hostile Bankers Life crowd that was 90% against him?  Get real. The C. Red hate is real and I don’t understand it.

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15 minutes ago, H.B. said:

You’re seriously going to try and compare a win at a dual meet in Rec Hall to a win that capped off an undefeated career and fourth state championship in front of a hostile Bankers Life crowd that was 90% against him?  Get real. The C. Red hate is real and I don’t understand it.

Agree. Funny post comparing the two, but they're different personalities and it was different situations.

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1 hour ago, hook and half said:

Loved it when Lee climbed up on the rail at Rec Hall and flexed to the audience.  How about when Lee’s dad ran in front of the TV camera and posed?

 

Exciting!

Hypocrisy. We all talked about that high school final like it was the match of the century. Bankers Life was packed to the gills and the roof nearly came off the place (two matches later when Joe Lee won by pin you could hear a pin drop). Christian Pyles on Flowrestling called it probably the greatest high school final ever.  There were almost three years of "will they meet? Oh, please I hope they meet. My life will be complete if they meet." Beforehand. 

 

And then, when Chad treats it like it was the match of the century and celebrates like a kid (he was a kid after all). The adults all say "how dare he? I'm shocked, shocked I say. He is giving me the vapors."

 

I said it then, I will say it again. Who cares how he celebrates? Four years undefeated? Finishing with a win over a nationally acclaimed opponent? Have at it.

Edited by wrestlenewbie

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2 hours ago, hook and half said:

Loved it when Lee climbed up on the rail at Rec Hall and flexed to the audience.  How about when Lee’s dad ran in front of the TV camera and posed?

 

Exciting!

It's your homeboy so you do. I bet you cried foul the 4 times CJ danced at Banker's Life. Good regular season win.  The dad and Lee just let me know how they really are though.  They shall meet again. Many on this board had Lee destroying CJ.  Didn't happen.  I'll contend CJ's trajectory is still higher. He got hot last year he'll do it again.  His dad I know to be a great person.  He'll get in his ear. Back to you hook and a half.  Just know when CJ get's some getback at Big Ten's you keep that same energy B. Because I will if he win's or loses.

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25 minutes ago, Leftenant Luers said:

It's your homeboy so you do. I bet you cried foul the 4 times CJ danced at Banker's Life. Good regular season win.  The dad and Lee just let me know how they really are though.  They shall meet again. Many on this board had Lee destroying CJ.  Didn't happen.  I'll contend CJ's trajectory is still higher. He got hot last year he'll do it again.  His dad I know to be a great person.  He'll get in his ear. Back to you hook and a half.  Just know when CJ get's some getback at Big Ten's you keep that same energy B. Because I will if he win's or loses.

Kudos to Red for his 4 titles but Red will never beat Lee again. Shouldn’t have in the first place had the ref  forced the action. College is a little different in that the refs won’t allow the dancing around as evidenced in today’s match. 

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Just now, 1prouddad said:

Kudos to Red for his 4 titles but Red will never beat Lee again. Shouldn’t have in the first place had the ref  forced the action. College is a little different in that the refs won’t allow the dancing around as evidenced in today’s match. 

This has got to be a joke. He had him beat today. He didn’t get a stall call in the neutral position. He got them while he was on TOP CONTROLLING LEE. I seriously do not understand what you all have against CJ. The fact that he does a little dance to celebrate after big wins? Reece Humphrey literally break dances after matches and it’s all fun. CJ does a dance in good spirit after people doubt him and it’s, “Have some class, act like you’ve been there before.” The hypocrisy when it comes to this kid is ridiculous and it’s a shame you all hate to see him succeed.

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9 minutes ago, 1prouddad said:

Kudos to Red for his 4 titles but Red will never beat Lee again. Shouldn’t have in the first place had the ref  forced the action. College is a little different in that the refs won’t allow the dancing around as evidenced in today’s match. 

Never say never after a 5-4 match.  Look, you are either clairvoyant or lack discernment completely.....I'm guessing the later.  If he majored him I might play your game. He did not. What I saw was a close match. Penalty points decided that match.  Even a person who makes arbitrary statements like you I would think could see that.  But then I saw where you are from.....now I digress.

Edited by Leftenant Luers

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6 minutes ago, H.B. said:

This has got to be a joke. He had him beat today. He didn’t get a stall call in the neutral position. He got them while he was on TOP CONTROLLING LEE. I seriously do not understand what you all have against CJ. The fact that he does a little dance to celebrate after big wins? Reece Humphrey literally break dances after matches and it’s all fun. CJ does a dance in good spirit after people doubt him and it’s, “Have some class, act like you’ve been there before.” The hypocrisy when it comes to this kid is ridiculous and it’s a shame you all hate to see him succeed.

Stalling is stalling whether it’s from the neutral, down or top position. 

Im not hating on the celebration cause I enjoy the excitement as much as the next guy. 

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1 hour ago, H.B. said:

This has got to be a joke. He had him beat today. He didn’t get a stall call in the neutral position. He got them while he was on TOP CONTROLLING LEE. I seriously do not understand what you all have against CJ. The fact that he does a little dance to celebrate after big wins? Reece Humphrey literally break dances after matches and it’s all fun. CJ does a dance in good spirit after people doubt him and it’s, “Have some class, act like you’ve been there before.” The hypocrisy when it comes to this kid is ridiculous and it’s a shame you all hate to see him succeed.

People had things to say about Reece Humphrey dancing after matches back in high school so no it was not all fun.

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Did I miss something or did my DeLorean drop me off in 2016?  Their HS match was dissected and critiques ad nauseum back then.  Not sure anything new can be added to that discussion or should be at this point  

Guys in 2019 and these guys have been in college a few years.  Let’s live this in the present and what is happening now.  I’m guessing we will see these two cross paths a few more time.  

Edited by MattM

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11 hours ago, wrestlenewbie said:

Christian Pyles on Flowrestling called it probably the greatest high school final ever. 

I can’t be the only one who disagrees, right? I understand that it could be viewed as one of the greatest finals based off of hype, situation, and resumes, but the match itself was certainly not the most exciting final I’ve seen.

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15 hours ago, H.B. said:

This has got to be a joke. He had him beat today. He didn’t get a stall call in the neutral position. He got them while he was on TOP CONTROLLING LEE. I seriously do not understand what you all have against CJ. The fact that he does a little dance to celebrate after big wins? Reece Humphrey literally break dances after matches and it’s all fun. CJ does a dance in good spirit after people doubt him and it’s, “Have some class, act like you’ve been there before.” The hypocrisy when it comes to this kid is ridiculous and it’s a shame you all hate to see him succeed.

I think it has more to do with the antics of the father after the Lee match than what CJ did.  Just my opinion.

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15 hours ago, H.B. said:

He didn’t get a stall call in the neutral position. He got them while he was on TOP CONTROLLING LEE.

There is a reason why a wrestler in top position gets a 5 count & must move up above the waist before the count is finished or they get a stall call. It is because simply clinging to a leg is not controlling an opponent.

Red did a nice job of riding Lee in the second period but it was at the expense of stalling twice by clinging to a leg.

I have nothing against Red. I love seeing all Indiana boys doing well nationally & at the collegiate level. CJ has not performed to the best of his ability thus far this season, but I have faith that he can & will turn things around by tournament time (both Big10's & NCAA's).

I see Red's biggest flaw at the collegiate level (i.e. against upper level talent) being his lack of offense on his feet. He doesn't seem to have a go to shot other than countering his opponent's shot. And when you need to score at the end of a match, this is a major flaw.

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Although it came out in Nick Lee's favor, honestly I thought that Red wrestled the better of the two. Yes, Lee got the first takedown. Red got that takedown on the scramble in the second period to match it, and I thought that Red was the better top rider of the two.

I'm a fan of both of these wrestlers - I'd like to see them both put their best match forward and then whoever wins it wins it.

I think in Chad's case, he *has* to open up on offense. I am confused why he isn't - he is lightning quick and he should be able to take shot attempts and recover if necessary. Maybe he would rather wrestle a counter-attack style but I think he could effectively go on the attack and in the worst case put it into a scramble situation

Hoping for a rematch in Big10 tourney

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34 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

There is a reason why a wrestler in top position gets a 5 count & must move up above the waist before the count is finished or they get a stall call. It is because simply clinging to a leg is not controlling an opponent.

Red did a nice job of riding Lee in the second period but it was at the expense of stalling twice by clinging to a leg.

I have nothing against Red. I love seeing all Indiana boys doing well nationally & at the collegiate level. CJ has not performed to the best of his ability thus far this season, but I have faith that he can & will turn things around by tournament time (both Big10's & NCAA's).

I see Red's biggest flaw at the collegiate level (i.e. against upper level talent) being his lack of offense on his feet. He doesn't seem to have a go to shot other than countering his opponent's shot. And when you need to score at the end of a match, this is a major flaw.

If you are so great a seeing "flaws''; did you correct your own?  Did you wrestle in college? Have you ever heard of being solid? Do you know how difficult it is to score at the highest levels? If not I call flag on the post!

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13 minutes ago, Leftenant Luers said:

If you are so great a seeing "flaws''; did you correct your own?  Did you wrestle in college? Have you ever heard of being solid? Do you know how difficult it is to score at the highest levels? If not I call flag on the post!

Hey relax!  I also give advice on NFL games, cooking shows, and wheel of fortune

Doesn't mean I'm right or that I've done all of these, but it's ok on a message board to have an opinion

So Leftenant - you think they should spot them the R,S,T,L,N,E on the final puzzle??  😄

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20 minutes ago, Leftenant Luers said:

If you are so great a seeing "flaws''; did you correct your own?  Did you wrestle in college? Have you ever heard of being solid? Do you know how difficult it is to score at the highest levels? If not I call flag on the post!

Just curious as to what you see as Chad's flaws?  He is 6-7 against D1 competition this year.  Is that what you expect?  Is that meeting Chad's expectations?

I have nothing against Chad at all, but facts are facts and this has not been a stellar year for him and he is not trending in a Championship direction.

And no, I didn't wrestle at that level nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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8 minutes ago, base said:

Hey relax!  I also give advice on NFL games, cooking shows, and wheel of fortune

Doesn't mean I'm right or that I've done all of these, but it's ok on a message board to have an opinion

So Leftenant - you think they should spot them the R,S,T,L,N,E on the final puzzle??  😄

The Major General Heavy Handz Aka Leftenant Luers is always calm...I just call em like I see 'em.  And no I don't think they should spot them the R,S,T,L,N,E.

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2 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

Just curious as to what you see as Chad's flaws?  He is 6-7 against D1 competition this year.  Is that what you expect?  Is that meeting Chad's expectations?

I have nothing against Chad at all, but facts are facts and this has not been a stellar year for him and he is not trending in a Championship direction.

And no, I didn't wrestle at that level nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

No excuses...I have FlowGold so I've seen all of his matches. I believe he was hurt earlier in the year. How do you know what his expectations are?  I believe he is an All-American.  I don't think the season is over.  He isn't being dominated. He lost some close matches that he probably should have won but haven't we all?  I don't have time to debate you on the word flaw.  He needs to be more assertive is what I'll offer. Nothing more.  Since you aren't or never were an elite wrestler, you are probably looking at these loses through Scrub Lenses.  Study more. Learn the sport.  Appreciate greatness when you see it.  Holiday Inn is for Lames.

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22 minutes ago, Leftenant Luers said:

No excuses...I have FlowGold so I've seen all of his matches. I believe he was hurt earlier in the year. How do you know what his expectations are?  I believe he is an All-American.  I don't think the season is over.  He isn't being dominated. He lost some close matches that he probably should have won but haven't we all?  I don't have time to debate you on the word flaw.  He needs to be more assertive is what I'll offer. Nothing more.  Since you aren't or never were an elite wrestler, you are probably looking at these loses through Scrub Lenses.  Study more. Learn the sport.  Appreciate greatness when you see it.  Holiday Inn is for Lames.

I don't.  I'm asking.  You seem to present yourself as knowing more than everyone else.  

I am not looking through any "lenses" but am simply asking questions that are fair and reasonable to anyone that knows anything about the sport, whether they wrestled at the collegiate level or not.

I've you've read this thread and the other college thread and paid attention, you would have read that I thought Chad would win the match.  You would have also read discussions on what could have been holding Chad back this year and at NO point did I ever act as if I knew the answer.  I simply asked questions and posed possibilities (injury, health, weight management, etc. for example).  At some point, people must understand the difference between asking a question or posing a possibility to making an accusation.  Perhaps you can do that while teaching me the definition of the word flaw?  I'd welcome that discussion.

Lastly, if you have seen me make any remarks about Chad that were disrespectful, please point them out to me.  Chad was one helluva a HS wrestler.  He was an NCAA All-American as a redshirt freshman.  His sophomore year, to this point has not held up to that level.  Yet there is time.  It can still happen.  But the fact is he is 6-7 against D1 competition.  It doesn't take an NCAA All-American to know that is not what most would expect from an All-American.  Again, to clarify, the criticism is about his performance, not him.  There IS a difference.

Enjoy your day on your high horse.

Edited by SWINfan

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