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Melloh and Mulkey

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5 hours ago, Oldtimer said:

BS call all the way around. That ref is a huge supporter of the Irish and the CYO program so he will give the benefit to the mcginns and boys. Mulkey got robbed and that’s all there is to it. 

All I can say is they need to find a way to keep refs from supporting schools out of there matches and do a better job at it. 

Cant blame Snyder for being pissed because I would have been too. He musta said something to Russel to get tossed. 

So does that mean J.D. Minch shouldn't ref matches when North Mont wrestles

Edited by IrishPanther6512

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3 minutes ago, IrishPanther6512 said:

So does that mean J.D. Minch shouldn't ref matches when North Mont wrestles

If you’re associated with a school...alumni, former coach, live in the district, etc...then no, you shouldn’t officiate those matches.  

This goes for anyone, including BBurg. Just to avoid this situation.

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6 minutes ago, Kookie953 said:

If you’re associated with a school...alumni, former coach, live in the district, etc...then no, you shouldn’t officiate those matches.  

This goes for anyone, including BBurg. Just to avoid this situation.

Even if you think you can be impartial, just the illusion of there being any bias is enough taint a match or duel for some fans or wrestlers.

When I was in high school, we had a teacher who was also a wrestling official. I had no idea. He would make sure he would only take assignments that were not associated with us in any way. I never would have known, but we were added to a different tournament due to a weather related cancellation. He happened to have already been contracted for the tournament, but made sure he was not involved in any of our schools matches.

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8 minutes ago, runner-up said:

Even if you think you can be impartial, just the illusion of there being any bias is enough taint a match or duel for some fans or wrestlers.

When I was in high school, we had a teacher who was also a wrestling official. I had no idea. He would make sure he would only take assignments that were not associated with us in any way. I never would have known, but we were added to a different tournament due to a weather related cancellation. He happened to have already been contracted for the tournament, but made sure he was not involved in any of our schools matches.

Here is the problem with that.  Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie?  4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials.  There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays.  One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today.  It would just be a nightmare.  If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites.

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5 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

Here is the problem with that.  Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie?  4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials.  There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays.  One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today.  It would just be a nightmare.  If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites.

The reason it's a problem here is that he made a match-deciding stall call in a position that is extremely rare for a stall call to be made as opposed to a stalemate call. And he has the personal connection to the school that was favored by the call. 

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4 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

The reason it's a problem here is that he made a match-deciding stall call in a position that is extremely rare for a stall call to be made as opposed to a stalemate call. And he has the personal connection to the school that was favored by the call. 

We all get that.  It's easy to see after the fact.  But from a logistical standpoint it would be very difficult.  And how many Cathedral matches has he refereed in his career where there was no such call?   I get how it looks.  But I think you have to look at it as was it the right call or not and take where a guy went to school 30-40-50 years ago.  JMO

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4 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

We all get that.  It's easy to see after the fact.  But from a logistical standpoint it would be very difficult.  And how many Cathedral matches has he refereed in his career where there was no such call?   I get how it looks.  But I think you have to look at it as was it the right call or not and take where a guy went to school 30-40-50 years ago.  JMO

Many thought it was a bad call before knowing of the connection. It just looks worse knowing the connection.  So these situations where such a bias can be inferred should be avoided to the extent possible. 

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 Guys it’s OK to insult his refereeing skills. You could say it was a horrible call. It is your opinion to say he’s the worst referee ever.   You could even say that he should be banned from refereeing. 

 

But to assault the mans character something altogether different.

 

effectively you’re calling him a cheater. 

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33 minutes ago, hook and half said:

 Guys it’s OK to insult his refereeing skills. You could say it was a horrible call. It is your opinion to say he’s the worst referee ever.   You could even say that he should be banned from refereeing. 

 

But to assault the mans character something altogether different.

 

effectively you’re calling him a cheater. 

I think people are saying the connection puts him in a position for people to question things and that should be avoided.  

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24 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

I think people are saying the connection puts him in a position for people to question things and that should be avoided.  

I think it's digging for excuses. 

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1 hour ago, SWINfan said:

Here is the problem with that.  Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie?  4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials.  There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays.  One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today.  It would just be a nightmare.  If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites.

For the semi-state or state finals it’s not that hard

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Sounds like#paintrain went off the rails today with Lee the only one getting it done and their leader getting the boot. 

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15 minutes ago, MD92 said:

Sounds like#paintrain went off the rails today with Lee the only one getting it done and their leader getting the boot. 

My knee-jerk reaction is to call #dbag, but we have more class than that.  Tonight didn’t go as we wanted, but congrats to all those that won and congrats to the Irish.

Still proud of the #paintrain, and will miss watching these seniors do their thing.  Feel blessed to have been able to watch BLee and that my kid gets to look up to and follow his example.

Kudos to all individual winners.

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26 minutes ago, Powerline said:

For the semi-state or state finals it’s not that hard

Fair enough.  You handle the logistics next year.  Get the school every official went to and organize the officials to avoid said team on any mat at any point in the Finals.  With that many teams, only 4 mats and not knowing who will win and therefore be on what mat ahead of time.  Think it might be a tad harder than you think.

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2 minutes ago, nighthawk21 said:

For real... semis on two mats only.. with known mat assignments. Doesn’t seem too difficult

If you are going to do it, it needs to be done from round 1.  Not doing so would be akin to saying its okay if officials cheat on the kids that have already lost, but not the winners.  Don't see that happening.

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2 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

If you are going to do it, it needs to be done from round 1.  Not doing so would be akin to saying its okay if officials cheat on the kids that have already lost, but not the winners.  Don't see that happening.

It is done from round one

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It should have been a stalemate call not a bias Irish call. I have never been a fan of that ref because he has always been for cathedral. Hell he reffed when I was wrestling in the CYO and that was in the 70s. He was terrible all day long. I did see that they gave him 1 final match and it was on one that no way in hell he could screw that one up. It did cost Brownsburg the team title not alone a wrestler a shot for state title. 

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49 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

Fair enough.  You handle the logistics next year.  Get the school every official went to and organize the officials to avoid said team on any mat at any point in the Finals.  With that many teams, only 4 mats and not knowing who will win and therefore be on what mat ahead of time.  Think it might be a tad harder than you think.

Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there.

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Just now, Y2CJ41 said:

Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there.

Exactly.  This.  In all sports many refs self-police / refuse themselves if they’re associated with a school.  

I didn’t know wrestling didn’t do this until tonight.

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4 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there.

That's a little different than a guy that graduated from a school half a century ago (approx lol).  I get the basic concern though.  I just don't think it had anything to do  with the call.  NONE of us do as no one else in his head.  

I can say this, and I'm sure I'll get hammered for it, but I'll bet any officials will agree with me.  Again, I haven't officiated a game (I did baseball) in 25 years.  But I can say that as an official you are working as hard as you can to get each call right and when you are in the middle of a close call your mind isn't thinking about which team is which.  It's only after the action stops do you process things.  

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