IrishPanther6512 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Oldtimer said: BS call all the way around. That ref is a huge supporter of the Irish and the CYO program so he will give the benefit to the mcginns and boys. Mulkey got robbed and that’s all there is to it. All I can say is they need to find a way to keep refs from supporting schools out of there matches and do a better job at it. Cant blame Snyder for being pissed because I would have been too. He musta said something to Russel to get tossed. So does that mean J.D. Minch shouldn't ref matches when North Mont wrestles Edited February 18, 2018 by IrishPanther6512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kookie953 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, IrishPanther6512 said: So does that mean J.D. Minch shouldn't ref matches when North Mont wrestles If you’re associated with a school...alumni, former coach, live in the district, etc...then no, you shouldn’t officiate those matches. This goes for anyone, including BBurg. Just to avoid this situation. Powerline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runner-up Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kookie953 said: If you’re associated with a school...alumni, former coach, live in the district, etc...then no, you shouldn’t officiate those matches. This goes for anyone, including BBurg. Just to avoid this situation. Even if you think you can be impartial, just the illusion of there being any bias is enough taint a match or duel for some fans or wrestlers. When I was in high school, we had a teacher who was also a wrestling official. I had no idea. He would make sure he would only take assignments that were not associated with us in any way. I never would have known, but we were added to a different tournament due to a weather related cancellation. He happened to have already been contracted for the tournament, but made sure he was not involved in any of our schools matches. Powerline and Kookie953 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Silence Dogood said: How many times has anyone reading this thread seen a stalling call from a front headlock? Never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, IrishPanther6512 said: So does that mean J.D. Minch shouldn't ref matches when North Mont wrestles In a semi final state match....yes bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, runner-up said: Even if you think you can be impartial, just the illusion of there being any bias is enough taint a match or duel for some fans or wrestlers. When I was in high school, we had a teacher who was also a wrestling official. I had no idea. He would make sure he would only take assignments that were not associated with us in any way. I never would have known, but we were added to a different tournament due to a weather related cancellation. He happened to have already been contracted for the tournament, but made sure he was not involved in any of our schools matches. Here is the problem with that. Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie? 4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials. There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays. One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today. It would just be a nightmare. If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites. loscoz and rdrodd1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, SWINfan said: Here is the problem with that. Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie? 4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials. There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays. One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today. It would just be a nightmare. If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites. The reason it's a problem here is that he made a match-deciding stall call in a position that is extremely rare for a stall call to be made as opposed to a stalemate call. And he has the personal connection to the school that was favored by the call. Kookie953 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said: The reason it's a problem here is that he made a match-deciding stall call in a position that is extremely rare for a stall call to be made as opposed to a stalemate call. And he has the personal connection to the school that was favored by the call. We all get that. It's easy to see after the fact. But from a logistical standpoint it would be very difficult. And how many Cathedral matches has he refereed in his career where there was no such call? I get how it looks. But I think you have to look at it as was it the right call or not and take where a guy went to school 30-40-50 years ago. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, SWINfan said: We all get that. It's easy to see after the fact. But from a logistical standpoint it would be very difficult. And how many Cathedral matches has he refereed in his career where there was no such call? I get how it looks. But I think you have to look at it as was it the right call or not and take where a guy went to school 30-40-50 years ago. JMO Many thought it was a bad call before knowing of the connection. It just looks worse knowing the connection. So these situations where such a bias can be inferred should be avoided to the extent possible. Powerline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Guys it’s OK to insult his refereeing skills. You could say it was a horrible call. It is your opinion to say he’s the worst referee ever. You could even say that he should be banned from refereeing. But to assault the mans character something altogether different. effectively you’re calling him a cheater. SWINfan and rdrodd1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, hook and half said: Guys it’s OK to insult his refereeing skills. You could say it was a horrible call. It is your opinion to say he’s the worst referee ever. You could even say that he should be banned from refereeing. But to assault the mans character something altogether different. effectively you’re calling him a cheater. I think people are saying the connection puts him in a position for people to question things and that should be avoided. Powerline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1prouddad Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said: I think people are saying the connection puts him in a position for people to question things and that should be avoided. I think it's digging for excuses. dangood1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangood1 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Exactly, wasnt like he wasnt called for it once already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerline Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, SWINfan said: Here is the problem with that. Can you imagine the logistics it would take to constantly change officials every time a wrestler from a school stepped on the mat where a referee had some tie? 4 mats, 104 schools, only so many officials. There is no way you could plan ahead and at the least it would cause delays. One might say well just have that ref step back if school X is on his mat, but Cathedral for example had several wrestlers in a row on the same mat today. It would just be a nightmare. If a referee is good enough to call the State Finals, he didn't get there by playing favorites. For the semi-state or state finals it’s not that hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Sounds like#paintrain went off the rails today with Lee the only one getting it done and their leader getting the boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kookie953 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, MD92 said: Sounds like#paintrain went off the rails today with Lee the only one getting it done and their leader getting the boot. My knee-jerk reaction is to call #dbag, but we have more class than that. Tonight didn’t go as we wanted, but congrats to all those that won and congrats to the Irish. Still proud of the #paintrain, and will miss watching these seniors do their thing. Feel blessed to have been able to watch BLee and that my kid gets to look up to and follow his example. Kudos to all individual winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk21 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 25 minutes ago, Powerline said: For the semi-state or state finals it’s not that hard For real... semis on two mats only.. with known mat assignments. Doesn’t seem too difficult Powerline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, Powerline said: For the semi-state or state finals it’s not that hard Fair enough. You handle the logistics next year. Get the school every official went to and organize the officials to avoid said team on any mat at any point in the Finals. With that many teams, only 4 mats and not knowing who will win and therefore be on what mat ahead of time. Think it might be a tad harder than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, nighthawk21 said: For real... semis on two mats only.. with known mat assignments. Doesn’t seem too difficult If you are going to do it, it needs to be done from round 1. Not doing so would be akin to saying its okay if officials cheat on the kids that have already lost, but not the winners. Don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk21 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, SWINfan said: If you are going to do it, it needs to be done from round 1. Not doing so would be akin to saying its okay if officials cheat on the kids that have already lost, but not the winners. Don't see that happening. It is done from round one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtimer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It should have been a stalemate call not a bias Irish call. I have never been a fan of that ref because he has always been for cathedral. Hell he reffed when I was wrestling in the CYO and that was in the 70s. He was terrible all day long. I did see that they gave him 1 final match and it was on one that no way in hell he could screw that one up. It did cost Brownsburg the team title not alone a wrestler a shot for state title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Rather you make that call is debatable but it was definitely stalling by definition. Personally I would call stalemate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 49 minutes ago, SWINfan said: Fair enough. You handle the logistics next year. Get the school every official went to and organize the officials to avoid said team on any mat at any point in the Finals. With that many teams, only 4 mats and not knowing who will win and therefore be on what mat ahead of time. Think it might be a tad harder than you think. Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there. Powerline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kookie953 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Just now, Y2CJ41 said: Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there. Exactly. This. In all sports many refs self-police / refuse themselves if they’re associated with a school. I didn’t know wrestling didn’t do this until tonight. Powerline and BrianLefeve 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said: Most refs will self scratch schools they are associated with. For instance you won't see Greg Moe ref a Central Noble match since he is the principal there. That's a little different than a guy that graduated from a school half a century ago (approx lol). I get the basic concern though. I just don't think it had anything to do with the call. NONE of us do as no one else in his head. I can say this, and I'm sure I'll get hammered for it, but I'll bet any officials will agree with me. Again, I haven't officiated a game (I did baseball) in 25 years. But I can say that as an official you are working as hard as you can to get each call right and when you are in the middle of a close call your mind isn't thinking about which team is which. It's only after the action stops do you process things. piscis1956 and runner-up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts