Jump to content

If wrestling was a class sport........


Recommended Posts

Just a question that goes both ways-

If wrestling was a class sport how many lower class school wrestlers would be more successful? 

How much harder would higher class school wrestlers have to work? 

 

If other sports weren't a class sport, how many wouldn't make it out of sectionals? 

We live near the stateline and Ohio is a Division wrestling state. Makes one ponder? Does anyone know how many states actually have class wrestling? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 208
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Speaking solely from a 1A selfish standpoint.  If wrestling became classed......I'd likely transfer my son to a larger school.  Because in my opinion.....without a "Tournament of Champions", most of t

The academy training is a huge advantage here.  We have club and our off-season, but many of our younger guys and high school guys supplement it with Red Cobra and Contenders.  We did not have this op

I get Jelly-Of-The-Month Club as compensation where I work, but I’m not really complaining.  It’s the gift that keeps on givin all year long.

Posted Images

6 minutes ago, wrestleliferfan said:

Just a question that goes both ways-

If wrestling was a class sport how many lower class school wrestlers would be more successful? 

How much harder would higher class school wrestlers have to work? 

 

If other sports weren't a class sport, how many wouldn't make it out of sectionals? 

We live near the stateline and Ohio is a Division wrestling state. Makes one ponder? Does anyone know how many states actually have class wrestling? 

45 states was mentioned other day.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, wrestleliferfan said:

Just a question that goes both ways-

If wrestling was a class sport how many lower class school wrestlers would be more successful? 

How much harder would higher class school wrestlers have to work? 

 

If other sports weren't a class sport, how many wouldn't make it out of sectionals? 

We live near the stateline and Ohio is a Division wrestling state. Makes one ponder? Does anyone know how many states actually have class wrestling? 

Thanks bro.  We have skirted this many times this year.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, wrestleliferfan said:

Just a question that goes both ways-

If wrestling was a class sport how many lower class school wrestlers would be more successful? 

Depends on how many qualifiers would be coming and how many divisions. If you take two classes(150ish teams per class) and 16 state qualifiers per division you would have about 12 more small school wrestlers making it to state and about 4 more big school wrestlers making it to state.

Quote

How much harder would higher class school wrestlers have to work? 

See above and the "working harder" theme is hard to gauge, I know many kids that I would consider hard workers that probably won't make it to state. 

 

Quote

If other sports weren't a class sport, how many wouldn't make it out of sectionals? 

We live near the stateline and Ohio is a Division wrestling state. Makes one ponder? Does anyone know how many states actually have class wrestling?

45ish, give or take a couple, the New England states are funny as they have their own state championships then a New England championships.

Need more specific in terms of "other sports."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking solely from a 1A selfish standpoint.  If wrestling became classed......I'd likely transfer my son to a larger school.  Because in my opinion.....without a "Tournament of Champions", most of the time kids from the larger schools would be perceived as better.  Yes......I realize national accolades would separate a wrestlers worth to recruiters.  However....I personally feel a 1 class system is one of the beauties of this sport here at home.

In regards to a wrestler becoming more successful......they simply need to have the hunger & drive to accomplish those things.  My personal feeling......is that there is no difference between a kid at a small school vs a kid at a larger school in regards to becoming "elite".  You have the same opportunities at open rooms, club training, ISWA events, national events, etc.  Ultimately it's a choice.  How hard is a kid willing to work on & off the mat at ALL the attributes that define a great athlete.....and not just someone whose athletic.  Now, becoming "good" is a different story.  

Having better practice partners in season, larger room (more partners), wrestling a tougher schedule, etc., will all play a factor in kids who primarily wrestle from Nov to Jan/Feb. in distancing themselves from peers at smaller programs.  But that's a much different animal than truly pursuing future wrestling goals.

Ill be the first to admit I don't have all the answers.  And I'm sure it could possibly help grow the sport some on a lower level.  But I'm fairly confident that "classing" things would create an influx of your better wrestlers (including youth) beginning to gravitate more towards larger programs.  Again....this is just my perspective on one facet of "class wrestling".  I understand that there are other angles that I've not spoken on.  But ultimately.....this is an individual sport within a team concept.  So weakening competition so more kids can be successful who aren't putting in the work.....seems counter-productive to everything this sport stands for. Of which....is a major reason an old baseball guy like me has fallen in love with it.  No excuses....and nobody to blame but the man in the mirror.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although you accumulate points as a team, lets be honest, wrestling is an individual sport. I don’t believe there would be a reason to classify individuals. You want the best wrestlers period wrestling in the state finals and that’s truly what we get now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wchew20 said:

Although you accumulate points as a team, lets be honest, wrestling is an individual sport. I don’t believe there would be a reason to classify individuals. You want the best wrestlers period wrestling in the state finals and that’s truly what we get now. 

 

3 hours ago, Dmsmelby said:

 

Indiana has a very good system in place.  Class team state and keep individuals together.  Only thing I’d change is make state at the end of the year like it was.  

I don't know how 45 states do it with class wrestling. Those poor kids in classed states.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wchew20 said:

So you’re saying there is no argument against it? 

Tell me why 90% of the states have class wrestling and we are the exceptions. Tell me in what way does it benefit wrestlers and more importantly the sport of wrestling by having no classes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m always up for a good debate so I’ll start here.

 

1. You rebuffed  my intital post that states my point as “I would want to see the best wrestlers in the state competing in the state finals”with “everyone else does it”. 

2. You answered my 2nd question with a question. (That doesn’t make for much of a debate).  

3. I’ll state my point again. Again As a fan, I would want to see the best wrestlers compete in the states largest event. Why wouldn’t you as a fan? If I’m a wrestler and have an half ounce of competiveness, I want to beat the best. You think Mason Parris would be happy showing everyone is the best 2A wrestler in Indiana? That trophy would mean nothing to him. I can’t say I know the monetary variances, but if it’s about the kids and about the fans that pay to go to events, I have stated why they both benefit from it. It essentially hands out more trophies, which is barely a step above participation trophies. I say all this coming from a 1A school. 

Feel free to address my previous questions and points beyond “everyone else is doing it” along with answering the questions you posed from your point of view. I am actually very curious to hearing your points. Have you ever polled coaches, administrators, or athletic directors on their feelings on the subject? I’m not saying I know everything, but if you truly want to get other points of view on the subject and have a debate (which I believe is the purpose of the forum) then let’s do better. If not, I’ve at least stated my points. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, wchew20 said:

I’m always up for a good debate so I’ll start here.

 

1. You rebuffed  my intital post that states my point as “I would want to see the best wrestlers in the state competing in the state finals”with “everyone else does it”. 

2. You answered my 2nd question with a question. (That doesn’t make for much of a debate).  

3. I’ll state my point again. Again As a fan, I would want to see the best wrestlers compete in the states largest event. Why wouldn’t you as a fan? If I’m a wrestler and have an half ounce of competiveness, I want to beat the best. You think Mason Parris would be happy showing everyone is the best 2A wrestler in Indiana? That trophy would mean nothing to him. I can’t say I know the monetary variances, but if it’s about the kids and about the fans that pay to go to events, I have stated why they both benefit from it. It essentially hands out more trophies, which is barely a step above participation trophies. I say all this coming from a 1A school. 

Feel free to address my previous questions and points beyond “everyone else is doing it” along with answering the questions you posed from your point of view. I am actually very curious to hearing your points. Have you ever polled coaches, administrators, or athletic directors on their feelings on the subject? I’m not saying I know everything, but if you truly want to get other points of view on the subject and have a debate (which I believe is the purpose of the forum) then let’s do better. If not, I’ve at least stated my points. 

 

You can't answer my questions, that's fine because it would hurt your argument. I understand because you are the same as the others.

You're a fan, I don't care about you, I care about the health of the sport and the number of kids participating in the sport. If there is a good product on the mat people will come, they won't care about classes. 

Gable Steveson has won three world titles and is wrestling in a classed system right now.  How will he survive? Why is he even doing it? He probably is going to throw his medal in the trash with the other four classed medals he has. Such a great rebuttal because YOU think one kid would 

Feel free to tell me why Gable Steveson left a single class state to go wrestle in a classed state. I can't wait to hear this reasoning since only the top kids would want to wrestle in a single class state according to you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sig40 said:

Gable most likely left so he could wrestle as a 7th and 8th grader. 

He didn't leave until he was in the 8th grade, so one extra year? That's quite a move to do that and leave winning a few state titles in a single class state.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

You can't answer my questions, that's fine because it would hurt your argument. I understand because you are the same as the others.

You're a fan, I don't care about you, I care about the health of the sport and the number of kids participating in the sport. If there is a good product on the mat people will come, they won't care about classes. 

Gable Steveson has won three world titles and is wrestling in a classed system right now.  How will he survive? Why is he even doing it? He probably is going to throw his medal in the trash with the other four classed medals he has. Such a great rebuttal because YOU think one kid would 

Feel free to tell me why Gable Steveson left a single class state to go wrestle in a classed state. I can't wait to hear this reasoning since only the top kids would want to wrestle in a single class state according to you.

I agree that as a college resume builder a class system is advantageous, but without wrestle backs i doubt we get full value as many coaches will still avoid our tournament. 

You lose me at participation however. NY had initial gains but has receded to below pre class numbers now. (As pointed out numerous times, we are at the mercy of data collection we know little about). The perception that class will significantly boost 1A overall numbers just doesnt make sense, and our 2A and 3A forfeit rates are better than the comparables. Where does focusing on 12% of the market make sense as strategie for growth. Small schools will still face the same problems they always have, classing wont change that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

You can't answer my questions, that's fine because it would hurt your argument. I understand because you are the same as the others.

You're a fan, I don't care about you, I care about the health of the sport and the number of kids participating in the sport. If there is a good product on the mat people will come, they won't care about classes. 

Gable Steveson has won three world titles and is wrestling in a classed system right now.  How will he survive? Why is he even doing it? He probably is going to throw his medal in the trash with the other four classed medals he has. Such a great rebuttal because YOU think one kid would 

Feel free to tell me why Gable Steveson left a single class state to go wrestle in a classed state. I can't wait to hear this reasoning since only the top kids would want to wrestle in a single class state according to you.

You have avoided every question I have asked and to try to say I didn’t answer your question which I have twice now. I’ve addressed the advantages from a wrestler’s point of view, and the advantages from a fans perspective (which you stated you don’t care about, and is ironic because without fans this forum  or even website for that matter doesn’t exist). I’ve actually stated what I didn’t know as well. You have brought “everyone else is doing it” and the exception to to the rule. You have stated nothing but generalizations with no points behind them. There may be valid points to the argument for class, but it’s obvious they aren’t coming from you. Good try on the redirect, but I’m sure everyone else picked up on that too. You do a lot of good work here, but since your more interested in proclaiming yourself right, instead of actually proving it to everyone who is actually interested in the topic, there is no Discussion to be had here with you.  

Edited by wchew20
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Westforkwhite said:

I agree that as a college resume builder a class system is advantageous, but without wrestle backs i doubt we get full value as many coaches will still avoid our tournament. 

You lose me at participation however. NY had initial gains but has receded to below pre class numbers now. (As pointed out numerous times, we are at the mercy of data collection we know little about). The perception that class will significantly boost 1A overall numbers just doesnt make sense, and our 2A and 3A forfeit rates are better than the comparables. Where does focusing on 12% of the market make sense as strategie for growth. Small schools will still face the same problems they always have, classing wont change that.

Thank you for bringing relevant information and having points here. As someone who is truly interested in the topic and hearing pros and cons for it, it is much appreciated. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wchew20 said:

You have avoided every question I have asked and to try to say I didn’t answer your question which I have twice now. I’ve addressed the advantages from a wrestler’s point of view, and the advantages from a fans perspective (which you stated you don’t care about, and is ironic because without fans this forum  or even website for that matter doesn’t exist). I’ve actually stated what I didn’t know as well. You have brought “everyone else is doing it” and the exception to to the rule. You have stated nothing but generalizations with no points behind them. There may be valid points to the argument for class, but it’s obvious they aren’t coming from you. Good try on the redirect, but I’m sure everyone else picked up on that too. You do a lot of good work here, but since your more interested in proclaiming yourself right, instead of actually proving it to everyone who is actually interested in the topic, there is no Discussion to be had here with you.  

So again why did Gable Steveson who has won WORLD TITLES leave a single classed state to win throwaway medals in Minnesota? 

You can't answer that question can you? Imagine that.

Why are 75% of the state qualifiers from big schools(700+ students)?
Why are 82% of the state placers from big schools?
Why are 84% of the state champions from big schools?

Why can't you seem to answer questions with real answers instead of "Mason Parris would throw his medal away if he was in a classed system." Did he tell you that? Amazingly all these world class wrestlers aren't flocking to our state to wrestle in our single class system. I can't imagine why more Ohio guys aren't coming to wrestle in our superior state tournament.

Ohh.. here is some data in case you wonder where my made up stats are coming from.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18PWUXrlIjvzl_-I-HaflCB2w-r0a_sTkH-WWOcFKl2g/edit?usp=sharing

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Westforkwhite said:

I agree that as a college resume builder a class system is advantageous, but without wrestle backs i doubt we get full value as many coaches will still avoid our tournament. 

You lose me at participation however. NY had initial gains but has receded to below pre class numbers now. (As pointed out numerous times, we are at the mercy of data collection we know little about). The perception that class will significantly boost 1A overall numbers just doesnt make sense, and our 2A and 3A forfeit rates are better than the comparables. Where does focusing on 12% of the market make sense as strategie for growth. Small schools will still face the same problems they always have, classing wont change that.

So we should let 1A wrestling die? Ohhh I know, they should just work harder.

Note wrestling participation is down across the country, even in our great single class state. What are we going to blame that on? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

So we should let 1A wrestling die? Ohhh I know, they should just work harder.

Note wrestling participation is down across the country, even in our great single class state. What are we going to blame that on? 

So you are acknowledging that class systems aren't enough to maintain participation rates, i'm glad we agree.

The data doesn't support class wrestling as a participation savior. If having the great class system cant keep numbers up, maybe we should look at other ways to get kids out for wrestling.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Westforkwhite said:

So you are acknowledging that class systems aren't enough to maintain participation rates, i'm glad we agree.

The data doesn't support class wrestling as a participation savior. If having the great class system cant keep numbers up, maybe we should look at other ways to get kids out for wrestling.

Show me the data, I like hard numbers.

By your own statement a single class system isn't maintaining participation rates either. 

Link to post
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.