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Wrestlebacks Poll

Wrestlebacks  

201 members have voted

  1. 1. Are You In Favor of Wrestlebacks

    • Yes
      168
    • No
      32


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7 minutes ago, MattM said:

Well they say they randomly select the pattern that is followed from the available variation.   Not sure who or what actually randomly makes the selection though. 

Yeah exactly. If they use a computer program, which program? If a person does it, who? 

Id like to see some transparency at least. 

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I'm all for wrestle backs. Keep more mats out covering that wrestling mat subfloor called a basketball court. Let these kids earn their true respective spots on the podium.You can not compare wrestling to any other sport. Crazy to do so. You can play football you can play basketball.   You don't play wrestling. It's not a game. Again if you haven't been on a wrestling mat and won or lost. You simply have no idea what this sport is about and why we love it. And should never be allowed make rules or set up our tournament format. 

 

Phil Cook

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51 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

Indiana has a one of a kind format . Why make excuses to change what others envy, they know it’s tough that’s why others States don’t do it . Indiana Wrestling is a Leader

So...they envy it because they know it is better.  But they won't do it??? Because... all the other states are sissys?? Like PA, NJ, OH, IL, CA....

I don't think you can technically say we are 'leading' unless someone follows.

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10 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:

I also voted no. We always get caught up in wrestlebacks debate. I think common sense separation of the champions would fix this. 

It fixes the possibility of a better order for the top 4 placers.   But that method doesn’t help solve one of the main arguments these guys are making for wrestlebacks.  That the potential high state placer who took 2nd in regional to a stud will possibly draw a stud #1 in the ticket round.  Thus eliminating one of them from state placement. You're not solving that issue unless you either have wrestle-backs or ignore the regional placements all together and seed the event.  Though the second method would draw more complains from coaches.   

Edited by MattM

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10 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:

I also voted no. We always get caught up in wrestlebacks debate. I think common sense separation of the champions would fix this. 

How do you seperate the champs when you dont who they are.  Your rankings are good, but they cant predict with certainty who the champ is.

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Seed the 4 champs at semi state use the same formula

no rankings used 

1. Head to head

2. State series 

3. Record 

Regional champ A( returning champ I’m beaten)  1 seed 

regional runner up A 3rd placer 

regional champ B( returning undefeated 3rd) 2 seed 

with our current formula you separate A&B with the 2 champs drawing each regionals 4th place finisher. Separating the possible strong runner ups. 

Adding more rounds(time) to the state series from my sources will always be a non starter 

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3 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:

Seed the 4 champs at semi state use the same formula

no rankings used 

1. Head to head

2. State series 

3. Record 

Regional champ A( returning champ I’m beaten)  1 seed 

regional runner up A 3rd placer 

regional champ B( returning undefeated 3rd) 2 seed 

with our current formula you separate A&B with the 2 champs drawing each regionals 4th place finisher. Separating the possible strong runner ups. 

Adding more rounds(time) to the state series from my sources will always be a non starter 

I see.  Kind of like Ohio seeds at the state tournament from their districts.  But youre only ptotecting semi state champs.  Why not get everybody placed right with wrestlebacks.  With the good wrestlers lost at semi state and are 15 to 20% estimated placers lost in first round at state, were not giving the right medals to the right people.

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5 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:

Forget wrestleback anytime a higher seed losses we should just have a automatic rematch clause if upset minded kids are really that tough they should prove it twice 

Why should they have to prove it twice. Many people, including myself, have overlooked said wrestler and he then comes in shocks the world. Not only is that exciting for the wrestler, but the fans go nuts. As an example and it's not to take anything away from anyone:

Evv SS had an absolute stud come into town, undefeated, highly ranked, already put on the podium by many people, and gets beat. Both athletes knew what was on the line. I don't think I've ever heard Ford Center erupt the way it did that day. It wasn't boo's. It wasn't chants of rematch. Just pure insane loudness taking over.Thats the excitement that this great sports brings out in not only the athletes, but the fans as well. 

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22 minutes ago, MOWrestler said:

So...they envy it because they know it is better.  But they won't do it??? Because... all the other states are sissys?? Like PA, NJ, OH, IL, CA....

I don't think you can technically say we are 'leading' unless someone follows.

Your words .... “Sissy’s” ... not mine. 

Innovation = Leadership, Improvement, Development, Solution, Team Work, Creativity, Ideas. 

Indiana Wrestling are Leaders 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, 1prouddad said:

Why should they have to prove it twice. Many people, including myself, have overlooked said wrestler and he then comes in shocks the world. Not only is that exciting for the wrestler, but the fans go nuts. As an example and it's not to take anything away from anyone:

Evv SS had an absolute stud come into town, undefeated, highly ranked, already put on the podium by many people, and gets beat. Both athletes knew what was on the line. I don't think I've ever heard Ford Center erupt the way it did that day. It wasn't boo's. It wasn't chants of rematch. Just pure insane loudness taking over.Thats the excitement that this great sports brings out in not only the athletes, but the fans as well. 

That was a joke 

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Throw out the UPSETS. It's not really what wrestle backs are about IN MY OPINION. It's those studs hitting each other at regionals. Then drawing a stud in ticket round. One of them go home. 4 kids in other bracket that more than likely can't beat any of the kids. The goal is to have the best wrestlers at state!!! 

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7 hours ago, maligned said:

I even wonder sometimes if drawing them into "stars knocking off stars too early" isn't beating a dead horse. They have that in all of their other sports tournaments--which is what they insist on comparing us to.

I think instead there's an argument to be built that we're NOT being treated like other sports. All other sports have their tournaments conducted in the way states around the country conduct them and in the way their sport's culture dictates--except ours. We're the only ones forced to fit into a box that is completely disassociated from the rest of the season structure and the sport nationally.  

AND I think we can give examples of other individual sports that have similarities to ours that they don't realize; namely, track, swimming, and gymnastics. In those sports, at each tournament round, we have the best people all together in one space and we find the genuine best and advance them. That's how wrestling works. We never do a tennis-style single elimination tournament, from the youth ranks up through college. Instead, we get everyone in one space and spend a day figuring out the pecking order. It would be silly to get a bunch of swimmers together, randomly draw them into 4 heats, and say each heat winner gets to advance. We're all together at the same pool--let's go ahead and have some prelims and finals and pick the genuine best 4. Wrestling is the same, but they need to be invited to see it outside the "upsets happen" narrative or even the "my star lost too early in the tournament" argument....in my very humble opinion.

The swimming analogy is the best I have ever heard.

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1 hour ago, ontherise219 said:

I was 100 percent for wrestle backs but talking to different people they do not want to punish the kids who scored upsets. 

I am for using the Same system at state . 

How are they being punished? Win the next match you are in the finals. Lose the next and you still have a chance to go to State you now just need to prove it wasn’t a fluke. Get back to the 3rd place match and if you have to wrestle the kid you beat already good for you and good for him. Beat him again and prove you are the better wrestler.

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1 hour ago, takemtothemat said:

Throw out the UPSETS. It's not really what wrestle backs are about IN MY OPINION. It's those studs hitting each other at regionals. Then drawing a stud in ticket round. One of them go home.

It's not just your opinion, this is exactly what wrestle backs are about. The wrestlers that truly deserve to move on - will. And guess what, upsets will still happen.

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I have been on the short end of the stick of a bad ticket round draw. No fun at all. I guess it is a part of the sport, but I cringe when I see kids go home and kids with 10-15 losses make it because of a good draw. Then again though those 10 losses could be from wrestling a perry or portage or other top program type of schedule. However, that isn't always the case. I would love to see wrestle backs at semi state. 

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What about wrestlebacks to a true second at all levels of the tournament?  I haven’t done the math and this may not even be possible.  

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One thing that bothers me about no wrestle backs is that we have this really difficult process to get to state, the kid makes it and then he just gets one little moment on the stage if he loses.  The basketball player gets 40 minutes, football player gets whole game, baseball player gets 7 innings.  

We have our best talent to showcase, but we want the least amount of wrestling.  Get the kids out of their fast as we can, so we can see our best wrestlers less. We talk about a great accomlplishment, then we minamalize it.  Lets get less exposure for college coaches.  Lets make placing based on a system of chance, not overall experience.  

If it really bothers you that you have to beat a guy twice,  then the only way you would meet twice would be the 3rd place match.  So then give the win to the guy that won earlier.  Maybe you eliminate a match,  ill take that sacrifice in exchange for eliminating hundreds of wrestleback matches.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

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Unfortunately people with very limited wrestling knowledge make these decisions. They are happy with the final product (State Finals) because they know we will never not attend the state tournament based off of the current format. It's easier to keep it how it is, so why change it?

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8 hours ago, SIACfan said:

It's not just your opinion, this is exactly what wrestle backs are about. The wrestlers that truly deserve to move on - will. And guess what, upsets will still happen.

Yes upsets will happen. Just not why I'm for wrestlebacks.  You and everyone else loves a good upset.  Well unless it happens to your kid.  

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It sounds like they are not in favor of adding additional rounds, so what would we have to give up? Less kids advance but get wrestlebacks? 

Doesnt sound like they will give something for nothing. 

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