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Juniior Duals (Greco - FreeStyle)


cradleU

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While I think our process could use some tweaking, I do not believe it is the process as a whole is failing, I believe it is that our state as a whole does not take the dual events seriously or with great pride. You can see the other states take great pride in doing well at the dual events and it shows by their participation numbers in their top kids. On top of that, while our depth is getting better, after the top couple kids decline we start to suffer greatly. 

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This has always been a problem with the Duals Team.  I wonder how a team put together by a club or clubs would do?  By this I mean the ISWA letting someone put together a duals team, by no restrictions or requirements, and letting them fund raise for the trip expense, and the ISWA just paying the entry fee and giving permission to compete.  Do you think a better team could be assembled?

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(just opinion here).  I'm not sure it's always been a problem with the duals teams.  The Cadet/Junior duals teams were pretty darn competitive in the late 90s.  But since then, there have been many different choices for top talent in America and our best kids are doing different things.  I would guess that it's because it's not a quality experience if they don't all go and make the gold/silver placement rounds.

I'm also under the impression that they duals team now is selected by a group of guys picking who goes and what weight.

 

I've talked to a couple guys about setting a plan and introducing it at an ISWA board meeting, with the goal being similar to getting the alphas interested in competing in our duals teams.  We'll see if this can get any traction.

 

(ok, here I go being devil's advocate here).  Also, is it really that big of a deal that our cadet/junior/schoolboy duals team doesn't have the most competitive team?  The VA Beach team that Mrs. Cash put together was competitive and got IN some quality recognition and great matches for those guys.  Carmel had two guys on the Cadet duals team and it was a great experience for them.  Neither of them were in our varsity lineup last year.  If 'the alphas' of IN were on the cadet team, they wouldn't have the opportunities they did and because they were in the Purple placement pool they had matches that fit their needs at this point in their careers.  Why shouldn't we be thanking the ISWA for putting this opportunity?  I know Carmel does. 

 

I think it would be great if every state had every great kid from their state on their team and they all came to schoolboy/cadet/junior duals (which I believe is pretty close to happened in the 90's because there wasn't much else).  I also want to watch Burroughs vs Dake every Friday after the Patriots vs Seahawks game and before the Michigan vs tOSU football game, but truth is, Michigan has to play IU every once in a while.

 

Is it really a problem if "the alphas" of IN go somewhere else and get matches that fit them, and the development guys get their matches with schoolboy/cadet/junior duals.  I think we'd be naïve if we wanted 'the alphas' to compete in every tourney their level every weekend.  My thoughts are if you know what your getting into, then you cannot be upset with the results.  Just be real about what's being promoted that your getting into.

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If you want the state team to be that good then get your "studs" to do these events. Don't start bashing the kids who went out and gave their best because they wanted the experience and to represent. Some kids didn't even wrestle their normal weight. I noticed you have poynter at 126 and Stephenson at 132 but following on track those two rotated those weights meaning they were both giving up weight to begin with let alone against some of the best across the nation. These were the kids who wanted to go and dedicate themselves so live with it and don't bash them and how someone else could have done better. In the end there is almost always someone who could do better so praise the ones who try

Im confused where I "bashed" a kid saying that there are objectively better kids out there? Last I checked those kids didn't win a state title this year so they aren't the best of the best. I even said those kids will.get better. But in the sense of us wanting to be competive at the tournament as coach P alluded too we need to send our better wrestlers

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Brewer was the team leader for the MS Heartland Duals Gold team this past April and that group of talented young men came home with a third place finish. Quite a few of those same middle-schoolers participated in SB duals earlier this month and were very competitive as a squad, but due to some injuries and subsequent forfeits didn't place as high in GR/FS standings. The Blue Team gave up 5-6 weight's worth of forfeits, but were solid against the non-Gold pool types as the "developmental team". So, the quality of our wrestlers is there and we are closer to be on the cusp of contention with the big boys, especially for a state with our population size!

I think someone mentioned it earlier in the posting, but these top shelf wrestlers know each other really well through past national team/travel team tournaments. They communicate via social media (SnapChart, Instagram, etc.) almost daily if not hourly in some cases. They know who is doing what - where and when... ! I know my son loves to hang with his "buddies" from Lake Central, Chesterton, Penn, Edgewood, Castle, Tell City and Madison in addition to the friends he has made from the metro Indy area. These kids know who the other "bangers" are in their age groups across the other weight classes better than a lot of the parents do. So a big question that should be asked is, "How does the team get the best to participate?"

For solutions... If there could be a greater colloboration and consideration with team leaders, association leaders, academy/club coaches and parents, we might see a few improved outcomes in these dual events? Also, I did notice that the TN SB team had "Check into Cash" singlets on, so corporate sponsorship must exist at least in the Volunteer State...

 

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Is Indiana willing to put the proper emphasis on Freestyle again now that the rules have came back around?   That is the question in think that needs answers before we can say if it's worth it to try and develop a competitive national team.  Is the ISWA willing to make Freestyle an emphasis again even if at it take a little away from their Folkstyle dates and at first their profit from it?  Are many the coaches at the youth level willing to make Freestyle a emphasis again even if it means setting some training time aside and if they can't coach it then helping their kids get to a training cente that can? Are more wrestlers/parents at the youth level willing to expand there year out to Freestyle season again?  If not then we will continue to be in a hole when it comes to the development needed to have a relevant MS and HS national team.   Why because the lack of that emphasis and development had been the age were have been in for the last 10-15years.   The age that all these HS kids grew up in.

Let's not forget we are still battling to recover from the "dark ages" of Freestyle wrestling here in IN.  Most kids eligible for the current teams grew up with little focus on Freestyle due to the poor rules which causes a general lack of IN interests in competitions.  So it's not hard to fathom that many HS kids have done little to no Freestyle in several years. You can say athletes are athletes and wrestlers are wrestlers, but it still hard to get a primarily Folkstyle wrestler caught up enough to compete on a National level in Freestyle in a short time of training.  Several of out current top guys grew up in that "dark age" and at this point may not want to participate in National Freestyle events due to the fact they could get beat by a couple none ranked kids catching them in "Freestyle moves."  If you are still tying to get recruited to wrestle somewhere taking those losses would be something you are cautious about.  I'm not saying they are scared to compete in general, but Freestyle just isn't a style they are comfortable enough in at a national level.  It's a product of the poor system that we and the governing body had in place as these guys were coming up through the youth system.   

We are still a big Folkstyle state and the Freestyle systems still on wobbly legs.  If it improves hopefully that mean we will see more of our elemntery and especially MS kids try and stick with the Freestyle season.  Are we as a state putting enough emphasis on growing Freestlye interest and providing oppertunities? Or are we still driving Folkstyle to such a point that Freestlye is just that extra thing some people decide to do?  I think we can still be a Folkstyle 1st state without feeling like  Freestyle doesn't have much of a place in the state.    

Sure our elementary system has been strong in getting solid wrestlers intestested in traveling to tough out of state duals.  The MS system is offering more tough state competitions and even sending some tough teams out of state.   So yes we have a pool of kids coming up that have experience traveling and facing tough competition.  However, most of that has still been for Folkstyle events.  Again a result of the Freestle "dark age" period driving out state to become ultra Folkstyle.   So unless some focus chances I believe as those kids grow through the system they will make the same choice our current HS kids are.  They will stick with the Folkstyle events and most will not worry about Freestlye as they develop.  

 

Is it possible to get those same elementary and especially MS age travel kid (parents) to be interested in Freestyle event (team or dual)?  As a state are we again willing to place some emphasis on this as the elemntery and especially MS level?  If not then where will the development of Freestyle talent come from that will make for a competitive National Cadet and Junior team level.  If we want to stop our MS and HS Freestyle teams from being an afterthought nationally, then we must not make Freestyle such a distant afterthought in our states youth development process.  If not then we can continue to be a ultra Folkstyle state, but I'm not sure that emphasis has translated to the national or college level growth we would like to see from Indiana.    

Edited by MattM
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