Jump to content

Class Wrestling - Exposure


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Exposure is the only argument I need for class wrestling - much better than current stats or future estimated stats.  Class wrestling will benefit multiple things...   #1 College Recruitment.  Benef

We do have our 2nd place banner of 2014 in our school gym. We treat IHSWCA Team State as THE true measuring stick for a team state championship. Not the IHSAA individual tournament.

Kids will have added state qualification and placement added to their resumes earlier. Our kids are competing with others in neighboring states that are achieving those credentials earlier. It is not

You mean the individual tournament that has team scoring like the NCAAs?

Yes, we would consider ourselves more of a true Team State Champion if we beat Yorktown and Bellmont in a dual meet style tournament rather than out scoring them at Individual State.

Good point.  But in most gyms I go to, I see IHSAA banners for state championships and runner ups or even 3rd place.     I don't see IHSWCA banners hanging, not that there would be anything wrong with that.    Are you guys putting up the 3rd place team state banner at Northmont?   

But you definitely would have put been putting up an IHSAA banner this year if things were classed, and you guys would have gotten it in "the alternate universe with classed wrestling in Indiana".

We also have a HUGE team picture in our entrance of our school Right next to our 1995 and 1996 state football championship teams and our 2000 state runner up Baseball team.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, we would consider ourselves more of a true Team State Champion if we beat Yorktown and Bellmont in a dual meet style tournament rather than out scoring them at Individual State.

We also have a HUGE team picture in our entrance of our school Right next to our 1995 and 1996 state football championship teams and our 2000 state runner up Baseball team.

That's Awsome.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, we would consider ourselves more of a true Team State Champion if we beat Yorktown and Bellmont in a dual meet style tournament rather than out scoring them at Individual State.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I for one as a fan enjoy the "tournament" rather than dual meet format for acquiring a state championship. Even though we, Monrovia, have faired well it doesn't carry the amount of water that an OVERALL state title does. Obviously this is my opinion only.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I for one as a fan enjoy the "tournament" rather than dual meet format for acquiring a state championship. Even though we, Monrovia, have faired well it doesn't carry the amount of water that an OVERALL state title does. Obviously this is my opinion only.

I love our individual tournament. But that's exactly what it is, an individual tournament. I love team state as well and if we are talking about team state championships, that is the true measure in my opinion. We have a classed team state tournament now so small schools have a team state championship to shoot for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Class wrestling + Open enrollment = Title chasing?

I think there is very real potential for this. We certainly see it in our surrounding states. I'm not sure this is the worst thing though, providing class wrestling created benefits in quantity and quality, we could probably live with it

Link to post
Share on other sites

Class wrestling + Open enrollment = Title chasing?

Wait,  I thought the ultimate goal was to win the title.    Isnt every school chasing a title.   Or is it in Indiana, we give up for going for the title.   But well try to do our best so they will give us respect comments on Indianamat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait,  I thought the ultimate goal was to win the title.    Isnt every school chasing a title.   Or is it in Indiana, we give up for going for the title.   But well try to do our best so they will give us respect comments on Indianamat.

 

I am referring to individual titles.  I'll provide you an example:

 

If I'm an incoming freshman and I know that a returning champ is going to be at my weight for potentially the next 1-2 years at 3A, I will enroll prior to my freshman year at a 1A or 2A school to enhance my chances of winning 1 or more titles.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am referring to individual titles.  I'll provide you an example:

 

If I'm an incoming freshman and I know that a returning champ is going to be at my weight for potentially the next 1-2 years at 3A, I will enroll prior to my freshman year at a 1A or 2A school to enhance my chances of winning 1 or more titles.  

Doesn't it happen a lot that incoming freshaman already enroll at the school that's good because they have a significant chance of winning at the more competitive school.   See Y2's example referenced many times  of Cascade and Danville and Tri-West  in #TheCounty.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't it happen a lot that incoming freshaman already enroll at the school that's good because they have a significant chance of winning at the more competitive school.   See Y2's example referenced many times  of Cascade and Danville and Tri-West  in #TheCounty.

 

Sorta my point, albeit underhandedly.  Open enrollment "solves" the problem - if you can't beat them, join them. But in the class wrestling scenario here come the kids from the big school down to the small school chasing titles and taking away spots from kids who actually live in the small town. 

 

In my opinion, class wrestling is not the best solution to increasing participation. There will always be kids/programs caught in the numbers game (e.g. the school who just squeaks into 3A competing with schools 4 times its size).

 

Go to Illinois' forum and they are arguing for going back to a 2 class or 1 class system. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting you bring up Prairie Heights.  Didn't score a point this weekend and disappointing for such a talented team.     Go with me on this:    Say we hypothetically jump to the alternate universe with class wrestling.  I would say in that world, they probably would of won the Class A state wrestling championship this weekend.  And at 2:00 PM today, they would have had their State Championship assembly in the gym with whole school watching.    Coach and wrestlers would of been heroes and the janitor would be clearing out the spot in the trophy cabinet.   Cheerleaders would be doing a great cheer and everybody would feeling swell at the ole Prairie Heights high school.  

 

Back to the real world.  Coaches are talking while cleaning out the wrestling room,  saying "we at least competed with the big teams and got there respect.   Don't have anything to show for it, but we put up a good fight".

Ouch

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ouch

Love Prairie Heights and not picking on you guys,  but had to use you guys to make a point     So lets get the opinion  from someone in your shoes.   In a Class tournament, depending how you classed it, your likely  state champions.     Or you got current world state,  you scored no points but you got the consolation of being the most competitive small school.   Even though Monrovia might be getting a big head after this weekend and think they are the toughest small school.  What would you rather have, Small class state champs or be the little school that competes well with the big guys.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The goal behind this topic was to discuss exposure, and it seems we've digressed (myself included). So to redirect I'd like to ask the question...

 

Can anyone put forth a solid argument that multi class wrestling won't help exposure? As it seems this topic strongly favors class wrestling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Love Prairie Heights and not picking on you guys, but had to use you guys to make a point So lets get the opinion from someone in your shoes. In a Class tournament, depending how you classed it, your likely state champions. Or you got current world state, you scored no points but you got the consolation of being the most competitive small school. Even though Monrovia might be getting a big head after this weekend and think they are the toughest small school. What would you rather have, Small class state champs or be the little school that competes well with the big guys.

No harm done. Keep it the way it is currently. Classed Team State Duals have been great for us. Placed 4th in first year of it, runner-up 2 years ago to AC, then won it the past 2 year and going back next year. Single class individual state finals. We have had 7 qualifiers (2 of which placed) the past 3 years. We like to roll with the big dogs even though there's a chance we are gonna get picked off, but that happens. We also are capable of picking some of them off too. We have a great schedule for the most part: we get to see Goshen, Lafayette Harrison, Yorktown, Jimtown, Elkhart Memorial, Garrett in duals throughout the year. Going to Mishawaka and placing in the top 7 with some of the top teams in the state, getting 5 medalists the past 2 years each is always fun. Did we underachieve this past weekend, absolutley. But that's the way it goes. 3 kids on the podium at 160 we beat earlier this year, 1 on the podium at 182 we beat this year. Plus a couple at 145. We have great coaches, family support, and kids that bust their butts everyday. They go to Scholastic Duals, Virginia Beach, Disney Duals, rtc's, open tournaments, etc. Our numbers are up for various reasons: regular season success, sectional champs, regional champs, team state champs, relationships with kids/parents,the tradition at PH, and whatever else you can think ok.

Not sure if I answered some/any/all of your questions, but I say leave it as it is now. Would I like to see more wrestlers, absolutley. I get tired of wrestling schools giving up several ff's in a hs dual. In our ms schedule, it's even worse. We have 30+ kids, tonight we received I believe 8-9 ff's in both matches each. I don't think going to classes is the cure-all answer to get more kids competing. I don't know if anyone does. Too many variables to fix that problem I believe.

Edited by rookie78
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the one argument more than any other where I come down fully on the class wrestling side of things. I distinctly remember whooping an Ohio state placer at an offseason camp. I was a one time semi state ticket rounder and never got past the regional other than that.

 

It blew my mind when that kid told me he was getting interest from colleges, because I sure as hell wasn't attracting any attention.

 

Yes, you still have to have the quality to back it up when you get there. But at the end of the day, a college scholarship is about a hell of a lot more than wrestling. It's an opportunity for an education that that kid may not have otherwise had access to. Anything that can help increase that opportunity is a good thing in my book.

 

I still love the idea of a single class though. In my perfect world, colleges would recognize IN SSQ as the same level as a classed state qualifier. That's not the world we live in though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exposure is the only argument I need for class wrestling - much better than current stats or future estimated stats.  Class wrestling will benefit multiple things...

 

#1 College Recruitment.  Benefits start Year 1.  College coaches (DI, DII, DIII, & JuCo) first look at achievements of sophomores and juniors.  Unless you're already an all-american, that is only going to include state achievements.  Small school wrestlers from other states tend to get those achievements earlier in high school, which gets them looked at earlier by college coaches.  Most college coaches consider your senior year too late to start recruiting.  More exposure earlier in high school will mean more college offers for our small school wrestlers, some of whom might not have considered wrestling in college as an option.

 

#2 Youth Participation.  Benefits won't show for a few years.  When a program has state champs, state placewinners, and state qualifiers year after year, it is much easier to grow your youth program.  Kids like to see the success and continue the tradition.  That's been a huge factor for Mater Dei, Bellmont, Yorktown, etc.  With class wrestling you will see more small schools start to build their own legacy.

 

#3 Future Coaches.  Benefits won't show for several years.  One thing that is holding us back as a state from getting to the next level is a lack of high school coaches with college wrestling experience.  I'd be surprised if more than half of our head coaches wrestled in college.  If we can get more of our wrestlers competing in college, then some of them will come back and coach high school, junior high, or youth clubs.  That will improve our overall quality of wrestling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

#3 Future Coaches.  Benefits won't show for several years.  One thing that is holding us back as a state from getting to the next level is a lack of high school coaches with college wrestling experience.  I'd be surprised if more than half of our head coaches wrestled in college.  If we can get more of our wrestlers competing in college, then some of them will come back and coach high school, junior high, or youth clubs.  That will improve our overall quality of wrestling.

I'd like to expand on that as I see this as a REALLY big benefit that would lead to better depth.

 

It doesn't mean a kid has to wrestle for four years or even have a lot of success. Being around a college program will benefit you from higher level coaching and being around numerous wrestling styles. 

 

I have many college teammates that can't necessarily make the commitment to being a high school or middle school coach, but are helping out the youth clubs in their area. Imagine having guys that wrestled in college as your youth club coaches.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Disagree about class wrestling improving exposure. There is much bigger return in off season tournaments for exposure than high school wrestling! Mostly tournaments during football season! College coaches have more free time, are actively searching, and in the early wrestling season spirit!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Disagree about class wrestling improving exposure. There is much bigger return in off season tournaments for exposure than high school wrestling! Mostly tournaments during football season! College coaches have more free time, are actively searching, and in the early wrestling season spirit!

 

So because there are off-season tournaments, that means that more athletes being recognized for state placement won't lead to more exposure? 

Tournaments during football season don't help small schools much as many of them need those boys in order to field a football team.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So because there are off-season tournaments, that means that more athletes being recognized for state placement won't lead to more exposure?

Tournaments during football season don't help small schools much as many of them need those boys in order to field a football team.

Not saying the first question isn't true, but don't see enough evidence for me to think it's impact justifies the change.

 

Statement about small schools is true, but most tournaments during football season are on Sunday. But some you don't get to go to like super 32's. We are 3a and most my kids are multi-sport athletes, I get it! BUT if their passion is to wrestle in college this is one of the best things they can do to be seen, in my opinion!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not saying the first question isn't true, but don't see enough evidence for me to think it's impact justifies the change.

 

Statement about small schools is true, but most tournaments during football season are on Sunday. But some you don't get to go to like super 32's. We are 3a and most my kids are multi-sport athletes, I get it! BUT if their passion is to wrestle in college this is one of the best things they can do to be seen, in my opinion!

I think your point about off season tournaments is a good one, however you've not really spoken to why you believe multi class wouldn't help. For us to expect out-of-state coaches to understand what a SSQ means or that an SQ doesn't have the advantage of wrestlebacks, I think is unwise. SQ or SP means more than SSQ, and it's very possible this gets kids more looks. I'm I missing something or leaving out an important part of the equation?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think your point about off season tournaments is a good one, however you've not really spoken to why you believe multi class wouldn't help. For us to expect out-of-state coaches to understand what a SSQ means or that an SQ doesn't have the advantage of wrestlebacks, I think is unwise. SQ or SP means more than SSQ, and it's very possible this gets kids more looks. I'm I missing something or leaving out an important part of the equation?

I have on other post, so not to bore people I just kept it simple!

 

Last year as most know my son lost his only match at ticket round and was a SS Qualifier. It sucked and he beat himself up over it for a long time (think till he made it past that point this year).

 

But 1 of the highlights of this was going to off season tournaments in Michigan, Iowa, Virginia, Florida and others where he wrestled SQ, SP, and even State champs. After beating most of these kids they start asking things like who is this kid, where did he come from, and etc....

 

The hype factor of an unknown is powerful at these tournaments.

 

As far as multi-class, my issue lies in the details. I believe the problem is not with classing but classing school size only. By not including schools that are less popular in wrestling in all classes (example: teams with 1-15 season record if lucky) you are not improving the sport just shifting the focus.

Link to post
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.