Westforkwhite Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 How do you see multi class wrestling helping our kids get recognized and recruited by Colleges? Or let everyone know why you feel it would hurt Exposure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 How do you see multi class wrestling helping our kids get recognized and recruited by Colleges? Or let everyone know why you feel it would hurt Exposure? Kids will have added state qualification and placement added to their resumes earlier. Our kids are competing with others in neighboring states that are achieving those credentials earlier. It is not easy to market yourself compared to those other state's kids. barrydjr and WadeDuPont 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOWrestler Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Kids will have added state qualification and placement added to their resumes earlier. Our kids are competing with others in neighboring states that are achieving those credentials earlier. It is not easy to market yourself compared to those other state's kids. This might be a more reasonable argument about the class system than its potential to boost numbers. But in the end it is just PR to say you are a State Champ etc... Your skills have to back it up. I was wondering how many classes different states have and found this article on InterMat form 2014. Those interested in this topic might find it interesting. http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/13237 . Also brings up the issue of "How many classes?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOWrestler Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Those interested in this topic might also find the following data interesting. This is from 2016 and has NCAA D1 qualifiers by STATE (inf you scroll down a bit) http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40254-by-the-numbers-2016-ncaa-s#.WKxzM_LGpG0 and here is one from 2014 http://news.theopenmat.com/college-wrestling-news/2014-ncaa-division-i-qualifiers-by-home-state/36062. I am not motivated enough to cross reference this data with whether or not a state has a class system or single class.... But, based on the number of posts on these topics maybe someone will Edited February 21, 2017 by MOWrestler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 This might be a more reasonable argument about the class system than its potential to boost numbers. But in the end it is just PR to say you are a State Champ etc... Your skills have to back it up. I was wondering how many classes different states have and found this article on InterMat form 2014. Those interested in this topic might find it interesting. http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/13237 . Also brings up the issue of "How many classes?" Whether it's PR like you want to say, it still works. I promise you a college coach would be more interested if you are a state qualifier in a classed system than a semi-state qualifier in a one class system. Those interested in this topic might also find the following data interesting. This is from 2016 and has NCAA D1 qualifiers by STATE (inf you scroll down a bit) http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40254-by-the-numbers-2016-ncaa-s#.WKxzM_LGpG0 and here is one from 2014 http://news.theopenmat.com/college-wrestling-news/2014-ncaa-division-i-qualifiers-by-home-state/36062. I am not ***NO NO NO***ious enough to cross reference this data with whether or not a state has a class system or single class.... But, based on the number of posts on these topics maybe someone will http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html This is not updated for a while, but this is a general look at who has class and who doesn't. Hint...almost everyone has class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westforkwhite Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Whether it's PR like you want to say, it still works. I promise you a college coach would be more interested if you are a state qualifier in a classed system than a semi-state qualifier in a one class system. I tend to agree with this statement. I however don't have the experience dealing with College Coaches that many of the posters on the board do, but I'm not seeing much of an argument against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOWrestler Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Whether it's PR like you want to say, it still works. I promise you a college coach would be more interested if you are a state qualifier in a classed system than a semi-state qualifier in a one class system. http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html This is not updated for a while, but this is a general look at who has class and who doesn't. Hint...almost everyone has class. I agree PR helps. I mean that's what marketing is. So I think from an EXPOSURE standpoint your argument is valid. I know my son wrestles up in MI in the off season and is competitive with or beats 'state placers' but is only a SSQ here. I'm just saying that you have to back it up to actually make it @ the college level. barrydjr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I agree PR helps. I mean that's what marketing is. So I think from an EXPOSURE standpoint your argument is valid. I know my son wrestles up in MI in the off season and is competitive with or beats 'state placers' but is only a SSQ here. I'm just saying that you have to back it up to actually make it @ the college level. I have seen that for years, it's nothing new to see non-state qualifiers in Indiana beat placers from other states. However that placer is still getting more attention from college coaches. MOWrestler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have seen that for years, it's nothing new to see non-state qualifiers in Indiana beat placers from other states. However that placer is still getting more attention from college coaches. Pretty much every kid I have had who made it to at least semi-state received either some sort of letter, call, or conversation with interested college coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Pretty much every kid I have had who made it to at least semi-state received either some sort of letter, call, or conversation with interested college coaches... From out of state or only Indiana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 From out of state or only Indiana? Mainly Indiana for sure, but there have been Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois schools as well. The majority have been in state though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The class wrestling contingent believes that small school wrestlers deserve to get college recognition moreso than a more talented (but possibly not state-level) wrestler from a large school. That is the argument, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The class wrestling contingent believes that small school wrestlers deserve to get college recognition moreso than a more talented (but possibly not state-level) wrestler from a large school. That is the argument, correct? MOWrestler and Coach Nieman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The class wrestling contingent believes that small school wrestlers deserve to get college recognition moreso than a more talented (but possibly not state-level) wrestler from a large school. That is the argument, correct? Just the same as the 1A Quarterback gets All-State honors while a 6A Quarterback that is just as good or better gets none because there are 6 DI Quarterbacks at 6A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westforkwhite Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Tha Just the same as the 1A Quarterback gets All-State honors while a 6A Quarterback that is just as good or better gets none because there are 6 DI Quarterbacks at 6A. That fails the fairness sniff, but it it's very logical from an exposure perpestive. MOWrestler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 That fails the fairness sniff, but it it's very logical from an exposure perpestive. Let's take it a step further... The 1A kid's school celebrates the award, kid gets his picture on the wall, he get a big plaque, he brings recognition to the school and community. Maybe a few of the youngsters now try to emulate this guy when they are playing pickup football games. All positives in my book. Do people tell him that there are 6 DI Quarterbacks in 6A and shame him for his 1A award? Does he throw away his award? Do people tell him, "that's cool, but you wouldn't be that good in 6A?" Those are all statements I have heard in regards to class wrestling. The 6A quarterbacks still get exposure, they still get recognition and in all honesty I bet they could care less about the 1A award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber_bob Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If the purpose of classing the state tournament is to get more exposure, more state qualifiers, etc., would anyone rather expand the state finals to 32 wrestlers per weight class, rather than classing it. Still 1 state champ, more kids to call themselves state qualifiers. base 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westforkwhite Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Let's take it a step further... The 1A kid's school celebrates the award, kid gets his picture on the wall, he get a big plaque, he brings recognition to the school and community. Maybe a few of the youngsters now try to emulate this guy when they are playing pickup football games. All positives in my book. Do people tell him that there are 6 DI Quarterbacks in 6A and shame him for his 1A award? Does he throw away his award? Do people tell him, "that's cool, but you wouldn't be that good in 6A?" Those are all statements I have heard in regards to class wrestling. The 6A quarterbacks still get exposure, they still get recognition and in all honesty I bet they could care less about the 1A award. I think what you are suggesting could be true, and I would bet there would be a few programs that would benefit. However in all the anecdotal examples provided by you and others at small schools, they have one thing in common, they cared about wrestling. If a tree falls and there is no one there.... Just the same with additional placement opportunities created by class would fall on mostly on deaf ears at 1A schools. It won't go unheard at places like Prarie Hgts or Shenandoah, but interestingly enough they have shown mostly opposition towards class. So if the schools that stand to reap the greatest placing benefits from multi class are against, who are we really advocating for? I would argue its schools that largely don't care as much about wrestling, which won't have the expected impact of driving real gains in participation statewide. Edited February 21, 2017 by Westforkwhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Being a state qualifier or placer at a small school is a big deal. It would be celebrated and bring recognition to the program and individuals. Central Noble had a pep rally for their wrestlers. West Noble announced during the orange thingy game that their wrestler won and it was the first time in 40 years they had a state placer. Small towns and communities live through their high school athletes and love to follow their successful programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think what you are suggesting could be true, and I would bet there would be a few programs that would benefit. However in all the anecdotal examples provided by you and others at small schools, they have one thing in common, they cared about wrestling. If a tree falls and there is no one there.... Just the same with additional placement opportunities created by class would fall on mostly on deaf ears at 1A schools. It won't go unheard at places like Prarie Hgts or Shenandoah, but interestingly enough they have shown mostly opposition towards class. So if the schools that stand to reap the greatest placing benefits from multi class are against, who are we really advocating for? I would argue its schools that largely don't care as much about wrestling, which won't have the expected impact of driving real gains in participation statewide. Interesting you bring up Prairie Heights. Didn't score a point this weekend and disappointing for such a talented team. Go with me on this: Say we hypothetically jump to the alternate universe with class wrestling. I would say in that world, they probably would of won the Class A state wrestling championship this weekend. And at 2:00 PM today, they would have had their State Championship assembly in the gym with whole school watching. Coach and wrestlers would of been heroes and the janitor would be clearing out the spot in the trophy cabinet. Cheerleaders would be doing a great cheer and everybody would feeling swell at the ole Prairie Heights high school. Back to the real world. Coaches are talking while cleaning out the wrestling room, saying "we at least competed with the big teams and got there respect. Don't have anything to show for it, but we put up a good fight". MonroviaMadDog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swain358 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Interesting you bring up Prairie Heights. Didn't score a point this weekend and disappointing for such a talented team. Go with me on this: Say we hypothetically jump to the alternate universe with class wrestling. I would say in that world, they probably would of won the Class A state wrestling championship this weekend. And at 2:00 PM today, they would have had their State Championship assembly in the gym with whole school watching. Coach and wrestlers would of been heroes and the janitor would be clearing out the spot in the trophy cabinet. Cheerleaders would be doing a great cheer and everybody would feeling swell at the ole Prairie Heights high school. Back to the real world. Coaches are talking while cleaning out the wrestling room, saying "we at least competed with the big teams and got there respect. Don't have anything to show for it, but we put up a good fight". I thought we had a classed team state for this reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westforkwhite Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Interesting you bring up Prairie Heights. Didn't score a point this weekend and disappointing for such a talented team. Go with me on this: Say we hypothetically jump to the alternate universe with class wrestling. I would say in that world, they probably would of won the Class A state wrestling championship this weekend. And at 2:00 PM today, they would have had their State Championship assembly in the gym with whole school watching. Coach and wrestlers would of been heroes and the janitor would be clearing out the spot in the trophy cabinet. Cheerleaders would be doing a great cheer and everybody would feeling swell at the ole Prairie Heights high school. Back to the real world. Coaches are talking while cleaning out the wrestling room, saying "we at least competed with the big teams and got there respect. Don't have anything to show for it, but we put up a good fight". I see the potential benefit for them and others, don't get me wrong, but they seem to see it differently. It's quite possible they are in the minority among their 1A peers in feeling that way, but they are also in the minority of 1A schools in terms of their commitment to the sport. I don't know if there is a correlation, but there might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I thought we had a classed team state for this reason? Good point. But in most gyms I go to, I see IHSAA banners for state championships and runner ups or even 3rd place. I don't see IHSWCA banners hanging, not that there would be anything wrong with that. Are you guys putting up the 3rd place team state banner at Northmont? But you definitely would have put been putting up an IHSAA banner this year if things were classed, and you guys would have gotten it in "the alternate universe with classed wrestling in Indiana". Edited February 21, 2017 by Wrestling Scholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonroviaMadDog Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I see the potential benefit for them and others, don't get me wrong, but they seem to see it differently. It's quite possible they are in the minority among their 1A peers in feeling that way, but they are also in the minority of 1A schools in terms of their commitment to the sport. I don't know if there is a correlation, but there might be. I'll take one class and our 8th place finish overall. (Silly small schools.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swain358 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Good point. But in most gyms I go to, I see IHSAA banners for state championships and runner ups or even 3rd place. I don't see IHSWCA banners hanging, not that there would be anything wrong with that. Are you guys putting up the 3rd place team state banner at Northmont? But you definitely would have put been putting up an IHSAA banner this year if things were classed, and you guys would have gotten it in "the alternate universe with classed wrestling in Indiana". We do have our 2nd place banner of 2014 in our school gym. We treat IHSWCA Team State as THE true measuring stick for a team state championship. Not the IHSAA individual tournament. Edited February 21, 2017 by swain358 base, Wrestling Scholar and throw45 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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