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Westforkwhite

Class Wrestling - Potential Benefits

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Calculations in reference to the total medals the state hands out. If we go to 3 classes, 3A only gets 33% of the medals, yet they represent 63% of the students (and likely near that % of the total wrestlers in the state). Which means a perspective boy in a 1A school would be approximately 6 times as likely to qualify/place just by virtue of going to a smaller school.

 

OK, so you are talking the percentage not actual number of medals won by the bigger schools...because clearly that number would only be able to increase...

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If we are going to split to classes based on size, why not on economic level.  Large schools with 60-100% Free lunch have a entire list of reasons it is difficult to field a team. Why not split based on that as well?  Leave individual state alone, everyone doesn't need a trophy.

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If we are going to split to classes based on size, why not on economic level.  Large schools with 60-100% Free lunch have a entire list of reasons it is difficult to field a team. Why not split based on that as well?  Leave individual state alone, everyone doesn't need a trophy.

Everyone won't get a trophy, actually no one gets a trophy in the state tournament.

 

Based on NFHS data 3.2% of our wrestlers go to state, double that...and we still aren't even close to "everyone getting a trophy."

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Everyone won't get a trophy, actually no one gets a trophy in the state tournament.

 

Based on NFHS data 3.2% of our wrestlers go to state, double that...and we still aren't even close to "everyone getting a trophy."

no, but you are getting closer.....lol

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I'd have been really sad to not see Mason Parris wrestle the best of the best at State.  With under 600 students, I can't imagine Lawrenceburg would have been in the "Large School" class.

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I'd have been really sad to not see Mason Parris wrestle the best of the best at State.  With under 600 students, I can't imagine Lawrenceburg would have been in the "Large School" class.

You mean like he did in the finals....right?

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There is a lot more difficulties in growing wrestling than just size of the school.  Look at our inner city schools with 1800 students and can barely field a program.  There are difficulties that some of the best coaches can't overcome.  So if you are going to divide individual state up based on size, why not socioeconomic status?  Or lets just simply divide individual state into three categories, really good teams, mediocre teams, and the not so good teams.  Then it doesn't matter how big your school is or what your issues are.  Individual state needs to stay the same because that is part of the excitement.  I mean honestly how many people cheered for individuals they didn't know when they were wrestling against a wrestler from Perry, Cathedral, Evansville, Portage, etc.    

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There is a lot more difficulties in growing wrestling than just size of the school.  Look at our inner city schools with 1800 students and can barely field a program.  There are difficulties that some of the best coaches can't overcome.  So if you are going to divide individual state up based on size, why not socioeconomic status?  Or lets just simply divide individual state into three categories, really good teams, mediocre teams, and the not so good teams.  Then it doesn't matter how big your school is or what your issues are.  Individual state needs to stay the same because that is part of the excitement.  I mean honestly how many people cheered for individuals they didn't know when they were wrestling against a wrestler from Perry, Cathedral, Evansville, Portage, etc.    

How about we just have 1 weight class? It will be exciting seeing Brayden Curtis try to beat Brayton Lee. Or even Joe Lee trying to take down Andrew Davison! Think of all the potential matches we are missing.

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Actually I was going to suggest a king of the mat at the end.  Starting with HWT and working down to 106 to be fair.  Come on, who wouldn't stay for that?  I'm just saying individual state is just fine the way it is.  

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I think if we want to grow high school wrestling, we shouldn't focus on changing the top tournament, we should focus on youth programs and middle schools!

 

What is your suggestion for fixing youth programs and middle schools?

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Well for once I'm gonna agree with Y2 on something. Which half the time I don't and just keep my mouth shut lol. The benefits of having class wrestling would be more kids and schools would get involved in the state tournament for their respective class. A class 1 average kid could have the chance to actually make it to state. Is it making our sport better? Possibly by attracting more kids into a program that have success, again in their respective class, would open up more people's eye seeing their hometown school taking so many to a state tournament. A lot of sports in Indiana are divided into class. now can some 1a class schools compete with the 3a? Yes but it's opening up a greater horizon for more kids to join smaller schools and have more of a chance at success. Programs like brownsburg, portage, EMD, are at the top because they always find success in their programs and attract more kids then the normal. That's just my opinion, prolly get drilled for it.

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As more kids are enjoying success earlier they might even be more tempted to do more off-season activities like RTC's, camps, national level events, etc. Which would help our depth in that our kids would be putting more time in during the off-season.

 

Note: Success could be anything from coming close to qualifying for state to being a high placer or champ, just depends on the kid.

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I think if we want to grow high school wrestling, we shouldn't focus on changing the top tournament, we should focus on youth programs and middle schools!

 

Now we are getting somewhere. I see this as a big issue in our area. Not that youth clubs have low numbers, but there are lots of ff's in most schools lineups. We have 21 weight classes in our conference for ms (which is probably a few too many). We have wrestled 9 duals so far this season. Only 1 of those didn't give up a single FF. Here is what the rest have had: 9, 6, 4, 2, 6, 9, 5, 6. Our ms numbers have dropped a little this year also. We generally have 45-50 kids, this year about 35. I work in the elementary school, been in the middle school for 10 years prior. I am recruiting kids all the time. I think you are right, got to start fixing the number situation at the lower levels first, then carry over a lot of these kids and keep the numbers up in the hs ranks.

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I know it will never happen, but I think it would help if teams could enter more than one kid per weight class into the sectional tournament. We lose very quality kids each year because they do not want to sit on the JV. Regional/semi state level kids that can't make the line up end up quitting rather than waiting for their shot on the varsity.

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Now we are getting somewhere. I see this as a big issue in our area. Not that youth clubs have low numbers, but there are lots of ff's in most schools lineups. We have 21 weight classes in our conference for ms (which is probably a few too many). We have wrestled 9 duals so far this season. Only 1 of those didn't give up a single FF. Here is what the rest have had: 9, 6, 4, 2, 6, 9, 5, 6. Our ms numbers have dropped a little this year also. We generally have 45-50 kids, this year about 35. I work in the elementary school, been in the middle school for 10 years prior. I am recruiting kids all the time. I think you are right, got to start fixing the number situation at the lower levels first, then carry over a lot of these kids and keep the numbers up in the hs ranks.

 

What is your suggestion for fixing youth programs and middle schools?

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What is your suggestion for fixing youth programs and middle schools?

I don't really have any to speak of that haven't already been discussed.

 

Recruit, recruit, recruit. Get in to the schools as much as possible and promote it. Get to the kids before year round elementary basketball takes over. Make it fun. Take kids to club tournaments. Don't emphasize winning so much at an early age, let the kids learn, handle defeat in a positive way. Move towards compression shirt/shorts. Invite/recognize kids at ms/hs matches. We have an autograph session with the hs team the week of the State Finals that our ms and club kids really like.

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This is a very difficult subject which is why most don't mess with it.  The high school season is long and takes so much time and energy from coaches.  I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel, let's share information and see what successful programs are doing.  I know many coaches around the state coach only during the high school season and have no time, interest, or desire to work with the middle schools or elems.  However, on the flip side of that, there are several coaches of top programs that live wrestling.  I see them all summer long at every tournament, RTC, camps, and etc. It is difficult to find parents/coaches willing to put in the time to set up a youth program, friendship duals, elem camps, visiting the area schools for promotion.  I like the idea of combining youth programs with in district schools or area schools.  It brings in a larger number of kids, the more kids, the more likely they will want to come back.  Plus coaches can split time possibly.  However, with recruiting, school choice, there are many against it.  Middle school state was a great addition along with having conference tournaments. I think the change in uniform is coming and that will attract more athletes into wrestling.  A lot of the complaints I hear from middle school students on why they will not go out for the sport is the singlet.  Sorry if you were looking for earth shaking ideas, maybe some of the great coaches we have here in Indiana can share their secrets.

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I mean the honest answer is you need to be insane and willing to eliminate any free time.

 

Here is an example of my typical week

 

  • Monday
    • Work 8:00am - 3:00
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Beginner Group 5:45-6:45
    • Intermediate group 6:45-7:45
  • Tuesday
    • Work 
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
  • Wednesday
    • Work 8:00am - 3:00
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Beginner Group 5:45-6:45
    • Intermediate group 6:45-7:45
  • Thursday
    • Work 
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
  • Friday
    • Work 
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Friday Night live 5:45-6:45
  • Satuday
    • High School Tournament
  • Sunday
    • Youth Tournament

 

Me and Darrick share this responsibility with me leaning more towards head of our youth program.

 

You have top be willing to put the time in to be successful which honestly means you have to sacrifice a lot of your time. 

 

There are things you can do to help not burn you out such has have dads help and recruit wrestlers to stay after and give you a hand.

 

For the babies the dads don't have to know much about the sport just be able to watch supervise and correct.

 

For my older group I have dads help and they tend to learn and ask questions along side the kids. 

 

The benefit of this is they feel more comfortable in a corner on the weekends which means you're not running around to every match because the kid doesn't have a coach.

 

If there are academies around USE them. A closed door mentality is the worst thing for a program. Different ideas and philosophies are crucial to growth in knowledge in the sport. You as a coach can not know everything be able to admit that.

 

We have a pretty good youth turnout and would be willing to at least offer what has worked for us.

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I mean the honest answer is you need to be insane and willing to eliminate any free time.

 

Here is an example of my typical week

 

  • Monday
    • Work 8:00am - 3:00
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Beginner Group 5:45-6:45
    • Intermediate group 6:45-7:45
  • Tuesday
    • Work
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
  • Wednesday
    • Work 8:00am - 3:00
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Beginner Group 5:45-6:45
    • Intermediate group 6:45-7:45
  • Thursday
    • Work
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
  • Friday
    • Work
    • High School Practice 3:20-5:30
    • Friday Night live 5:45-6:45
  • Satuday
    • High School Tournament
  • Sunday
    • Youth Tournament

Me and Darrick share this responsibility with me leaning more towards head of our youth program.

 

You have top be willing to put the time in to be successful which honestly means you have to sacrifice a lot of your time.

 

There are things you can do to help not burn you out such has have dads help and recruit wrestlers to stay after and give you a hand.

 

For the babies the dads don't have to know much about the sport just be able to watch supervise and correct.

 

For my older group I have dads help and they tend to learn and ask questions along side the kids.

 

The benefit of this is they feel more comfortable in a corner on the weekends which means you're not running around to every match because the kid doesn't have a coach.

 

If there are academies around USE them. A closed door mentality is the worst thing for a program. Different ideas and philosophies are crucial to growth in knowledge in the sport. You as a coach can not know everything be able to admit that.

 

We have a pretty good youth turnout and would be willing to at least offer what has worked for us.

So much truth written in this post right here.

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Well for once I'm gonna agree with Y2 on something. Which half the time I don't and just keep my mouth shut lol. The benefits of having class wrestling would be more kids and schools would get involved in the state tournament for their respective class. A class 1 average kid could have the chance to actually make it to state. Is it making our sport better? Possibly by attracting more kids into a program that have success, again in their respective class, would open up more people's eye seeing their hometown school taking so many to a state tournament. A lot of sports in Indiana are divided into class. now can some 1a class schools compete with the 3a? Yes but it's opening up a greater horizon for more kids to join smaller schools and have more of a chance at success. Programs like brownsburg, portage, EMD, are at the top because they always find success in their programs and attract more kids then the normal. That's just my opinion, prolly get drilled for it.

Average wrestlers have the chance to make it to state in our current system.  Did we see an increase in the numbers at Turkey Run after their state champ several years ago?

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