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navy80

Semi-State Ticket Round!

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Life isn't fair all the time. But got to keep working and be the best you can. Goes back to working your butt off everyday and want it. Remember it is semi state shouldn't be an easy matches left out there......

Just keep beating who you're put up against.

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Our system does suck, but we are aware of it and it makes Indiana wrestling exciting...however, it's just plain ridiculous...and in my opinion it's laziness...We should have wrestle backs throughout the entire tournament

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Our system does suck, but we are aware of it and it makes Indiana wrestling exciting...however, it's just plain ridiculous...and in my opinion it's laziness...We should have wrestle backs throughout the entire tournament

It's not laziness. It's by design. They don't mind having longer days at semi-state, as long as more money can come in through attendance and the "we're only here to crown a champion" principle is upheld. This was proven by the addition of regional 4th placers to semi-state without it even being requested. They've said a bunch of times they don't like people placing above someone who beat them and they like the idea of more schools being represented at state, which happens when you have the random draws and allow lesser wrestlers to have a better chance to advance.

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It's not laziness. It's by design. They don't mind having longer days at semi-state, as long as more money can come in through attendance and the "we're only here to crown a champion" principle is upheld. This was proven by the addition of regional 4th placers to semi-state without it even being requested. They've said a bunch of times they don't like people placing above someone who beat them and they like the idea of more schools being represented at state, which happens when you have the random draws and allow lesser wrestlers to have a better chance to advance.

There was some extra pressure for that 3rd and 4th place match that is forsure!

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It's not laziness. It's by design. They don't mind having longer days at semi-state, as long as more money can come in through attendance and the "we're only here to crown a champion" principle is upheld. This was proven by the addition of regional 4th placers to semi-state without it even being requested. They've said a bunch of times they don't like people placing above someone who beat them and they like the idea of more schools being represented at state, which happens when you have the random draws and allow lesser wrestlers to have a better chance to advance.

To put into layman's terms.   Basketball doesn't have basketball backs, so wrestling shouldn't have wrestle backs.  Per the opinion of the IHSAA board who are a majority of former basketball coaches.

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To put into layman's terms.   Basketball doesn't have basketball backs, so wrestling shouldn't have wrestle backs.  Per the opinion of the IHSAA board who are a majority of former basketball coaches.

This is true, but they take it a few steps further with rigidness across all sports: no seeding, random draws, fully geographic, no consideration of school size or quality in distributing teams into sectionals. Because of that, they view wrestling as already being granted lots of favors by guys being able to lose matches for 3 weeks and still go to state and by us being able to do seeding at sectional.

 

My opinion has always been that we have to do a better job of comparing wrestling to track and swimming: you've got everybody together in the same building on the same day--go ahead and run the event as a normally run wrestling event and let the best advance as track and swimming would. Not doing wrestlebacks in an event like semi-state is like doing randomly drawn heats for swimming or track regionals and taking heat winners to state regardless of times even though you had everybody in the same facility and could have pit them against each other to try to find the genuine best group.

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Wrestle backs here is a situation we are possibly coming across. At the CP regional 132 the 1 seed suffered a concussion during his victory and didn't wrestle again. Sounds like he will not wrestle this weekend - so an alternate would take his place. That alternate was the 4 seed from his sectional that lost to Jack Tolin as he won the regional easily. This leaves out kids who beat that 4 seed during sectional.

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Wrestle backs here is a situation we are possibly coming across. At the CP regional 132 the 1 seed suffered a concussion during his victory and didn't wrestle again. Sounds like he will not wrestle this weekend - so an alternate would take his place. That alternate was the 4 seed from his sectional that lost to Jack Tolin as he won the regional easily. This leaves out kids who beat that 4 seed during sectional.

For me, this is also part of the problem. We're hung up on fighting for wrestlebacks at all levels when semi-state is the obvious one that produces injustices. What you're describing is more a faulty system of designating the alternate. With the seeding system at sectionals and the pairing system at regionals, every wrestler has every chance to prove he or she is good enough to advance. At semi-state, this is not the case. Random pairings across 4 sites produces many injustices to the extent that the genuine best 4 end up in 4 different brackets only about 40% of the time.

 

In your case, we just need different alternate selection criteria. For me it should be this for choosing the semi-state alternate from among the regional first-round losers:

1. highest place from sectional

2. If there's a tie, then the one who lost to the highest regional placer gets the spot

 

It should be that for alternates to state as well:

1. the highest regional placer from among the 4 semi-state quarterfinal losers should be the alternate

2. If there's a tie, give the spot to the individual who lost to the highest semi-state placer.

 

As we have it now, we're almost certain to select a sectional 4th placer every time when higher placers from their own sectional were available.

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Ft Wayne 145: 

 

#17 Barr v #19  Wyro  - these 2 have split 2 matches this year

 

#3 Rasler v #7 Winner  - a matchup between two top 10 ranked wrestlers

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For me, this is also part of the problem. We're hung up on fighting for wrestlebacks at all levels when semi-state is the obvious one that produces injustices. What you're describing is more a faulty system of designating the alternate. With the seeding system at sectionals and the pairing system at regionals, every wrestler has every chance to prove he or she is good enough to advance. At semi-state, this is not the case. Random pairings across 4 sites produces many injustices to the extent that the genuine best 4 end up in 4 different brackets only about 40% of the time.

 

In your case, we just need different alternate selection criteria. For me it should be this for choosing the semi-state alternate from among the regional first-round losers:

1. highest place from sectional

2. If there's a tie, then the one who lost to the highest regional placer gets the spot

 

It should be that for alternates to state as well:

1. the highest regional placer from among the 4 semi-state quarterfinal losers should be the alternate

2. If there's a tie, give the spot to the individual who lost to the highest semi-state placer.

 

As we have it now, we're almost certain to select a sectional 4th placer every time when higher placers from their own sectional were available.

Yes agreed !

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In your case, we just need different alternate selection criteria. For me it should be this for choosing the semi-state alternate from among the regional first-round losers:

1. highest place from sectional

2. If there's a tie, then the one who lost to the highest regional placer gets the spot

 

As we have it now, we're almost certain to select a sectional 4th placer every time when higher placers from their own sectional were available.

I'm gald the MattM alternate plan proposed in circa 2000 is finally starting gaining steam.   :)  Although I've mention in the event of a tie it should go to the person who came from the regional winners sections.  Logic being they would have came from the slightly tougher sectional.  But your plan also has some logic too it unlike the current one of just filling spot with someone who may have only even won 1 match in the entire sectional.  But the IHSAA isn't as concerned with finding the best alternate since it is a low number group every year.  This version is a quick way to find a good alternate option without having a wrestle-back to figure it out.  

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To put into layman's terms.   Basketball doesn't have basketball backs, so wrestling shouldn't have wrestle backs.  Per the opinion of the IHSAA board who are a majority of former basketball coaches.

That is true, but they have a large number of players to sub-in and out of the game at all time to ensure that one player having a couple errors doesn't eliminate the entire team from the competition.  Same for about any team sport.  Most individual sports multiple people to move on based on best scores (gymnastics), times (swimming/track/cross-country), or round (golf).  Wrestling only issues is we are not able to compete against all other opponents at once, so wrestle-backs are the closest option to competing against the field that we have.  Really most are only asking for wrestle-back to help ensure the random draw doesn't interfere with determining who is actual the best 4 to compete that day.

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Geesh...next you will want 1's seeded at state so there is no chance for things like red/Lee before finals. Lol

Would've made a great Friday night match.  The place would have been packed!

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