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maligned

3A Team State Qualifying: thru State

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Does center grove add littell points and portage add points for Jake Moran?

Littell's a freshman and has no past points to add in, but his presence will be meaningful in the vote-in discussion. Portage sent some initial information on Moran but never followed up--probably because they were lapping the field without his points.

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Unfortunate that Carroll (Fort Wayne) is effectively going to be stealing a spot from a more deserving team for no other reason than geography. They wouldn't even be in consideration for a wild card spot if the top 10 automatically qualified, as they are more than 15 points from the 10th team on the list.

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Heres a hypothetical question:   What if you have a team that has a wrestler scoring a lot of points to the extent of winning a state championship.   Then the wrester announces he's not going to wrestle next year at the high school level.  Does his team still get his team points if he's not coming back?

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

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Is that really a hypothetical question? Obviously you are speaking of Joe Lee and MD

Ok your right,  but I was just trying to be a little funny in a subtle way.     So what does the "Joe Lee moving on" do to Mater Dei's team state score.  He scored 25 points for them based on the scoring sheet.   Without those, they drop out of the top 10.  Maligned should know.

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

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If you award a team for missing points based on a injury you should remove points when you know the wrestler will not be in the line-up.  I am hopeful Roncalli will get a spot; they performed well all season and had enough 'actual' points to make the field over 2 teams that will be attending the event.

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If you award a team for missing points based on a injury you should remove points when you know the wrestler will not be in the line-up.  I am hopeful Roncalli will get a spot; they performed well all season and had enough 'actual' points to make the field over 2 teams that will be attending the event.

This could be good for Roncalli.  It could  would move them to #10 and give them an automaticatic qualification and Roncalli wouldn't be subject to the vote of the "Committee of Power".    Not sure what the final scores are after state, but EMD was ahead of Roncalli by 11.      They probably will treat him as a SR and give them 14 points for Seniors qualifying for state, but that's 11 points less than they would have got.   

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This could be good for Roncalli.  It could  would move them to #10 and give them an automaticatic qualification and Roncalli wouldn't be subject to the vote of the "Committee of Power".    Not sure what the final scores are after state, but EMD was ahead of Roncalli by 11.      They probably will treat him as a SR and give them 14 points for Seniors qualifying for state, but that's 11 points less than they would have got.  

We've said this many times: the qualification process is a competition. It comes with a mix of bad luck and bad draws and good luck and good draws. It also comes with lots of scenarios that aren't figured into scoring so that it can remain a competition. And it's been very effective in getting the following season's top teams into the event (with the current "Category" system for controlling for tournament path difficulty, at least the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 from the season-ending duals rankings for all 3 classes the following year were involved in team state).

Outside of the scoring, the only small thing that's "post-adjusted" is a sophomore or junior injured or transfer ineligible fully before sectional begins. As of now, there are no other rules in place to adjust scores. If we have specific suggestions like the one discussed here, please definitely suggest it to me to propose or to voting members of the committee before next season so we can look at them. But it's unfortunately not the type of thing that's going to be changed after the fact when it's one of a dozen scenarios we could list if we wanted to get into all the minutiae we could explore for making projected scores as absolutely accurate as possible. For this season, I think you can appreciate how it's simply too late to change or add rules on the fly.

Edited by maligned

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We've said this many times: the qualification process is a competition. It comes with a mix of bad luck and bad draws and good luck and good draws. It also comes with lots of scenarios that aren't figured into scoring so that it can remain a competition. And it's been very effective in getting the following season's top teams into the event (with the current "Category" system for controlling for tournament path difficulty, at least the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 from the season-ending duals rankings for all 3 classes the following year were involved in team state).

Outside of the scoring, the only small thing that's "post-adjusted" is a sophomore or junior injured or transfer ineligible fully before sectional begins. As of now, there are no other rules in place to adjust scores. If we have specific suggestions like the one discussed here, please definitely suggest it to me to propose or to voting members of the committee before next season so we can look at them. But it's unfortunately not the type of thing that's going to be changed after the fact when it's one of a dozen scenarios we could list if we wanted to get into all the minutiae we could explore for making projected scores as absolutely accurate as possible. For this season, I think you can appreciate how it's simply too late to change or add rules on the fly.

No problem.   I understand the situation and you know I love what you guys do.    Proabably  something legit  to discuss for next years rules.

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Really is unfortunate that Hobart isn't eligible for a vote in. We lose 3 seniors, gain 2 tough freshman. Not really sure on how the point system works but I am disappointed we wont have a shot to be able to compete against some of the best teams from around the state. What do we have to do to score more points?? Does our SOS have to go up? We finished 6th in the state tournament with 3 wrestlers advancing into Saturday, 5 points behind power house PORTAGE. Yes I do understand that this is a dual tournament, but please explain to me how we can better our chances to get into this tournament? Please give me a point breakdown... I AM LOST

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Really is unfortunate that Hobart isn't eligible for a vote in. We lose 3 seniors, gain 2 tough freshman. Not really sure on how the point system works but I am disappointed we wont have a shot to be able to compete against some of the best teams from around the state. What do we have to do to score more points?? Does our SOS have to go up? We finished 6th in the state tournament with 3 wrestlers advancing into Saturday, 5 points behind power house PORTAGE. Yes I do understand that this is a dual tournament, but please explain to me how we can better our chances to get into this tournament? Please give me a point breakdown... I AM LOST

Here's the link to the scoring charts:https://sites.google.com/site/inwrestlingcoaches/news/selection2017-18

 

The main thing is that we're projecting who will be the best duals teams next year. This means points are much more heavily weighted toward underclassmen. You return 10 but only 4 that were at semi-state or beyond. The 3 teams from your semi-state who are about 25 points ahead of you in vote-in consideration all have 10-13 starters returning and 6-10 were at semi-state or beyond in each case. If you want consideration in the crowded 3A landscape, you pretty much have to get at least semi-state points from a minimum of 10 guys. You lost 6 before that level plus gave up a very costly forfeit at sectional. I hope this helps.

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Really is unfortunate that Hobart isn't eligible for a vote in. We lose 3 seniors, gain 2 tough freshman. Not really sure on how the point system works but I am disappointed we wont have a shot to be able to compete against some of the best teams from around the state. What do we have to do to score more points?? Does our SOS have to go up? We finished 6th in the state tournament with 3 wrestlers advancing into Saturday, 5 points behind power house PORTAGE. Yes I do understand that this is a dual tournament, but please explain to me how we can better our chances to get into this tournament? Please give me a point breakdown... I AM LOST

Its pretty simple just like a wrestling match.  You're guys don't score enough points, you lose and don't advance.

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Really is unfortunate that Hobart isn't eligible for a vote in. We lose 3 seniors, gain 2 tough freshman. Not really sure on how the point system works but I am disappointed we wont have a shot to be able to compete against some of the best teams from around the state. What do we have to do to score more points?? Does our SOS have to go up? We finished 6th in the state tournament with 3 wrestlers advancing into Saturday, 5 points behind power house PORTAGE. Yes I do understand that this is a dual tournament, but please explain to me how we can better our chances to get into this tournament? Please give me a point breakdown... I AM LOST

Think you would've been within 5 points of portage in a dual?

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Think you would've been within 5 points of portage in a dual?

Just using the tools available to us which would be Maligned's Genius ratings.   Hobart had a 65.43 rating  and Portage a 103.87.   So based on the predictor,  Portage would have beaten Hobart by 38 points.

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

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Thanks for the info guys! Better luck next year I guess. 

 

And no I don"t think that we would be in a running for a state title if we went, Portage has an awesome dual team that would put some big points on us, I am just trying to state my case because we do have a tough team that might deserve to be there over some, and the goal is to wrestle our toughest schedule (That is why we picked up EMD, CASTLE, JEFFERSONVILLE, ETC.) ..But because we come out of one of the toughest sectionals, regionals, and semi-states (Portage in all) we get punished for it. Merrilville comes from the EC sectional...6 of their kids made it to regionals without wrestling, Not trying to bash any team for their hard work, I just don't like the system to be honest... Now that I got that off my chest, Indianamat has done a great job this year with everything, and I would like to thank them for their hard work. 

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Is there anyway to expand the field??? I know the answer is no.... but this one is going to be tough! Got a bunch of really qualified teams in the running for the last two spots. To be honest, no way that I would be able to pick two. Who's everyone got, and why?

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Is there anyway to expand the field??? I know the answer is no.... but this one is going to be tough! Got a bunch of really qualified teams in the running for the last two spots. To be honest, no way that I would be able to pick two. Who's everyone got, and why?

So far for the "Committee of Power",  we got Sports tickets, burger joint certificates,  we got special wrestling cupcakes from the gourmet cupcake place and were putting together a pledge to by 20 Indiamanat  T-Shirts and pledge to buy 10 copies of next years Indianamat preview magazine.    Oh, were you talking about wrestling the resume of the returning team next year.  We got that also. 

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Doesn't Merriville always pass b/c of school rules? So 3 of those teams will get in??

Pretty sure school rules has nothing to do with it.  More along the lines of...they like their schedule the way it is and aren't enamored by where team state is on the calendar.  

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Thanks for the info guys! Better luck next year I guess. 

 

And no I don"t think that we would be in a running for a state title if we went, Portage has an awesome dual team that would put some big points on us, I am just trying to state my case because we do have a tough team that might deserve to be there over some, and the goal is to wrestle our toughest schedule (That is why we picked up EMD, CASTLE, JEFFERSONVILLE, ETC.) ..But because we come out of one of the toughest sectionals, regionals, and semi-states (Portage in all) we get punished for it. Merrilville comes from the EC sectional...6 of their kids made it to regionals without wrestling, Not trying to bash any team for their hard work, I just don't like the system to be honest... Now that I got that off my chest, Indianamat has done a great job this year with everything, and I would like to thank them for their hard work. 

Difficulty in different paths is built in. We use a Category system that awards more or less regional qualifiers per weight class based on how crowded your sectional is. We do the same at regional in terms of awarding semi-state qualifier points. Again, I recommend reading the procedures. And everyone is with you. We don't like the system. But one thing it does have going for it is that we've consistently projected the best teams in the following season with the scoring system we use. We all feel handcuffed by not having an all-in event, but the track record of getting the best teams to Team State has been much better with our current system than it was with the geographic system used by the IHSAA.

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5 of the top 8 3A automatic qualifiers are from the Evv SS (BBurg, Avon, Col East, Mater Dei, Castle).  You want to redistrict SS and put Hendricks County in New Castle?  Okay by me!

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