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MatFish

Moran brothers?

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Theo bowman had done some shady stuff in basketball in their short time as a program. If portage is ok with accepting them as students and they are good students who will graduate on time why does it matter? This isn't the NCAA where school are making profits off of students. I honesty don't see the big deal.

 

Because like it or not that's not the rule.  Bowman still has a program, btw. 

Why can't parents choose to put their kids in the best position to succeed without penalty?  I mean things change...people move for all kinds of reasons and want something different for their families. Granted, there have to be some restrictions, but if someone is willing to uproot their family and physically move to another school district where they have also enrolled their kids PRIOR to the start of a school year, whether it's for athletic reasons or any other extracurricular activity, why can't they do that without penalty?

 

As soon as you make exceptions (i.e. your underlined statement), you start right back down the slippery slope.  There is no perfect policy except no policy at all....

Transfers like this happen in all sports. not just wrestling.

 

And this is a wrestling forum and I am responding to a wrestling topic. 

3185 kids transfered this year 12 were found ineligible. 12 that's it 3 from the wrestling community. 2655 were given full eligibility.

 

So what you are saying is the IHSAA really doesn't micromanage that much?? Hmm....interesting.

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I think we are all aware of the rules. I'm asking why it matters in this case and not other cases that are happening right now? I'm aware Theo bowman has a program but they have only had a program for a short time. What 15 years in those time they have played kid who aren't even enrolled, had bench clearing brawl and played illegal transfers

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I think we are all aware of the rules. I'm asking why it matters in this case and not other cases that are happening right now? I'm aware Theo bowman has a program but they have only had a program for a short time. What 15 years in those time they have played kid who aren't even enrolled, had bench clearing brawl and played illegal transfers

 

I have no doubt you are aware of the rules, but maybe others aren't.  It matters in this case because apparently the administration at Crown Point thinks it does for the reasons already mentioned. Simple as that, really.  From what I can gather, the IHSAA lets schools essentially govern themselves.  Until someone cries harm, there is no foul. 

 

This specific case drips with irony given that the departing school is Crown Point, But in the end, I guess it doesn't matter. 

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Really what this may mean is that of the 3,000+ transfers only a handful have been contested by the sending school.  Most athletic administrators, regardless of the bitterness they might feel, don't take it out on teenagers.

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Really what this may mean is that of the 3,000+ transfers only a handful have been contested by the sending school. Most athletic administrators, regardless of the bitterness they might feel, don't take it out on teenagers.

Well in some cases the IHSAA has heard about it through other sources and chosen to investigate even though the previous school signed off.

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The only thing I can surmise is that CP was drawing their line in the sand and letting kids know that they couldn't just leave without a consequence. CP lost its longtime coach to retirement, one wrestler to Mt. Carmel, and then were about to lose 2 more to Portage. Perhaps this was their way of closing the doors and sadly it's the Moran brothers paying the price. I hope they do get to wrestle because we only get 4 years of high school.  I get both sides of the argument, but as another poster mentioned, it's ironic and funny that CP is now the moral police of transfers. 

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Really what this may mean is that of the 3,000+ transfers only a handful have been contested by the sending school.  Most athletic administrators, regardless of the bitterness they might feel, don't take it out on teenagers.

 

Correct.  Because one of the biggest life lessons sports participation is supposed to teach is if you don't like your situation just find a better set of circumstances instead of dealing with potential adversity.  

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Correct. Because one of the biggest life lessons sports participation is supposed to teach is if you don't like your situation just find a better set of circumstances instead of dealing with potential adversity.

Or if you don't like a job you should just stay there and be unhappy

I like this post it brings traffic to the site. It may be the same 5 guys posting but at least it's a hot topic

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Or if you don't like a job you should just stay there and be unhappy Nah, just quit your job and let someone us take care of your problems.

I like this post it brings traffic to the site. It may be the same 5 guys posting but at least it's a hot topic You're welcome. 

 

Let's make America and Indianamat great again!

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GOOD kids good family. Have known about these boys for awhile, they've been wrestling since they were both like 4 or 5 in the IKWF. My Family was excited when they headed they relocated to Indiana. The younger Moran came in to this year ranked #1, older Moran was stuck in a tough weight class. He has very few losses as a senior. Only losses I can think of are DeLapena in the ticket round, Reitz in the ticket round, and he lost Friday Night to Smiley last year on a penalty point?

Does not sound like Crown Point taught them much!

 

Shame on CP for NOT signing off! Keeping my fingers crossed for them, sounds like they are being made scapegoats, because the admin. and some families know the REAL REASON they left.

 

ALL THAT IS IN THE DARK WILL SOON COME TO THE LIGHT..........................................hhhhmmmm.

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I understand the rules and situation, Just wish the State would let parents do what they need to do Parent.. Kids may want to transfer move whatever, but ultimately it's Mom and Dad that make the choice. Be it a new job or a better life for their kids. A coaches influence can only go so far and i feel is a weak reason to halt a kid. Honestly it's not like the kids moved out of the house away from their parents. Got a house a job and started school just to play a sport a coach may or may not have influenced them to play. If the school paid them or gave them free stuff sure but this is clearly not the case.  Let them wrestle and the drama stop. Life is short and not worth wasting a kids dream away in a court battle. 

 

Sorry if i offended anyone. Just my 2 cent.

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I'm not sure i understand so everyone that leaves a trash job just doesn't work anymore? That doesn't seem right. indianamat has been great

 

Clearly you didn't get the sarcasm, so I'll stop.

 

As for jobs in the adult world and high school sports, I think you're comparing apples and oranges.  Extra curricular participation is a privilege not a right; schools are educational institutions first and foremost. 

 

Whether you like the eligibility policies of the IHSAA or not, those are the rules.  If you don't like the rules, don't participate or contact your local Principal/AD and lobby for them to be changed.  

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The flaw in the system is that the IHSAA generally only investigates eligibility when either the old or new school attempts to block transfer on their portion of the transfer report. That is why a vast majority of transfers are eligible without any pushback or without the IHSAA batting an eye, because both schools signed off. In cases where transfers are blocked by one school, the IHSAA then relies upon the resentful school from which the kid has transferred (or in very rare cases, the school that doesn't want to allow the athlete to transfer in) to build and present their case for ineligibility. It is not that the IHSAA does or does not micromanage the transfer process, the problem is that the entire eligibility investigation system is prejudiced against the athlete from the beginning. If you do any actual research into the IHSAA or case review panel decisions, you tend to see the same schools attempting to block transfers by any decent athlete, across all sports, leaving their school system. Because how dare anyone attempt to leave their school. The irony, like many have already said, is that we all know those same schools are more than willing to accept athletic transfers into their program without self-reporting or attempting to block those incoming transfers' eligibility.

 

I am not making statements as to the Morans case specifically, because I, like 99% of the people on this message board, do not know all the facts, have not spoken to any of the involved parties, and have not been present to hear the evidence, hearing, or appeal process. From what I do know, I believe the brothers should be eligible to compete and that this was a decision made by the parents in the best interest of their children and the family as a whole.

 

It is also my opinion that the Morans are also caught in the middle of bad blood that CP feels toward Portage for one reason or another. One specific circumstance that I know of is that CP felt bitter and slighted by Portage sending their second team to the super dual last year, so that Portage's varsity could travel to Michigan for a competition with nationally ranked teams. The CP administration has also made an issue of that situation. Makes one wonder if the Morans weren't high caliber athletes or if they had moved somewhere other than Portage, would the IHSAA even be involved? Also ironic is that while CP is celebrating the college eligibility victory of Jason Tsirtsis, they're also working to steal high school eligibility from the Morans. Just plain sad.

 

Here's a link to an article from 2010, which addresses the implementation of the case review panel and eligibility rules as the pertain to open enrollment. It's an interesting read. However, a quick overview the case review panel rulings shows that it has been less successful than hoped by Tony Bennett, in that it upholds the decision of the IHSAA a vast majority of the time. I guess that's why there's always the opportunity to appeal to state court as well.

 

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_news/new-law-expected-to-increase-appeals-of-ihsaa-eligibility-decisions/article_cc057e79-6261-5f78-843c-831a30f8f112.html

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I really could care less. Honestly I think it's dumb, it is a unfortunate situation for jonathon mostly being a senior. I don't think it will effect his college career I'm sure there are many college who would be lucky to have him. I think overall they(who ever made the choice to transfer) knew the risk when doing this. Maybe I have a different point of view because I get to hear a lot different stories. I'm sure this won't be the last time this is a issue. I do enjoy the conversation.

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I understand the rules and situation, Just wish the State would let parents do what they need to do Parent.. Kids may want to transfer move whatever, but ultimately it's Mom and Dad that make the choice. Be it a new job or a better life for their kids. A coaches influence can only go so far and i feel is a weak reason to halt a kid. Honestly it's not like the kids moved out of the house away from their parents. Got a house a job and started school just to play a sport a coach may or may not have influenced them to play. If the school paid them or gave them free stuff sure but this is clearly not the case.  Let them wrestle and the drama stop. Life is short and not worth wasting a kids dream away in a court battle. 

 

Sorry if i offended anyone. Just my 2 cent.

There have been instances where kids will stay with family or friends in order to compete at a certain school.

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I am not making statements as to the Morans case specifically, because I, like 99% of the people on this message board, do not know all the facts, have not spoken to any of the involved parties, and have not been present to hear the evidence, hearing, or appeal process. From what I do know, I believe the brothers should be eligible to compete and that this was a decision made by the parents in the best interest of their children and the family as a whole. These two sentences are a contradiction. 

 

 

Here's a link to an article from 2010, which addresses the implementation of the case review panel and eligibility rules as the pertain to open enrollment. It's an interesting read. However, a quick overview the case review panel rulings shows that it has been less successful than hoped by Tony Bennett, in that it upholds the decision of the IHSAA a vast majority of the time. I guess that's why there's always the opportunity to appeal to state court as well. Define success. Upholding decisions doesn't define success or failure. That's like blaming a district attorney for having a 95% conviction rate. 

 

 

Thank you for the post, it was a good read.  I have to get off this forum for the day, it's given me a headache!

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Clearly you didn't get the sarcasm, so I'll stop.

 

As for jobs in the adult world and high school sports, I think you're comparing apples and oranges.  Extra curricular participation is a privilege not a right; schools are educational institutions first and foremost. 

 

Whether you like the eligibility policies of the IHSAA or not, those are the rules.  If you don't like the rules, don't participate or contact your local Principal/AD and lobby for them to be changed.  

 

You're absolutely right. Extra-curricular participation is a privilege, not a right. However, I don't see anybody governing a student's right to transfer for participation in the robotics club, the marching band, student government, or any other non-athletic extra-curricular activity, and transfers of those natures happen as well. Also, right or wrong, if our legislature decided to enact laws permitting open enrollment, the IHSAA rules should be similarly changed. Regardless, the power should not be in the hands of the coach, administrator or school system that is bitter about a student's departure from their district.

 

And to simply say, "don't participate," is short sighted. Many athletes rely on their athletic pursuits as much as their academics in making it to college and/or in pursuing their own path after high school.

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You're absolutely right. Extra-curricular participation is a privilege, not a right. However, I don't see anybody governing a student's right to transfer for participation in the robotics club, the marching band, student government, or any other non-athletic extra-curricular activity, and transfers of those natures happen as well. Also, right or wrong, if our legislature decided to enact laws permitting open enrollment, the IHSAA rules should be similarly changed. Regardless, the power should not be in the hands of the coach, administrator or school system that is bitter about a student's departure from their district. Again, apples and oranges. The IHSAA governs athletics.  Robotics, Band, etc.  have their own governing bodies and they make the rules.  As they say, he who has the gold makes the rules.  Accepting open enrollment students  is still  a local school corporation decision, not at the state level (yet, anyway). 

 

And to simply say, "don't participate," is short sighted. Many athletes rely on their athletic pursuits as much as their academics in making it to college and/or in pursuing their own path after high school. I actually hope that's not true.  What's the percentage of HS athletes who participate in college athletics?  5% or less?  How many receive an athletic scholarship?  Less than 1%?

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You're absolutely right. Extra-curricular participation is a privilege, not a right. However, I don't see anybody governing a student's right to transfer for participation in the robotics club, the marching band, student government, or any other non-athletic extra-curricular activity, and transfers of those natures happen as well. Also, right or wrong, if our legislature decided to enact laws permitting open enrollment, the IHSAA rules should be similarly changed. Regardless, the power should not be in the hands of the coach, administrator or school system that is bitter about a student's departure from their district.

 

And to simply say, "don't participate," is short sighted. Many athletes rely on their athletic pursuits as much as their academics in making it to college and/or in pursuing their own path after high school.

I look at the open enrollment, and its a Pandora's box.   I still think its silly that the politicians in this state promote open enrollment, but if I want to go for Athletic reasons its bad.   IMO, athletics are part of the education process and its not like you totally compartmentalize.    But I do agree that what school you participate at significantly improves your chances of getting the rare scholarship.    Note its about 6% of high school athletes compete at the NCAA level and over 2% receive scholarships,  and there's more that compete the NAIA and Juco level.            For example,  some kids are fortunate where they live and get better coaching and exposure opportunities to get the scholarship.

 

Also I  all know about the Moran's is what I read on this forum.    If its true that there father relocated to another school district for employment reasons,  I think that supersedes any other criteria such as "coaching  in the off season from the school your moving to".  How could the IHSAA even try to even judge or understand the fathers intent that he moved his kid for wrestling.  Its like the IHSAA is speculating on the fathers intentions.   Even if somebody is crazy enough to sell their house and move for their kids High School athletics,  you still to believe them even if they're lying about relocating for a commute or job.   

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Why is it ok for any kid to transfer between Indy schools and not get penalized? Over an hour drive from one school to another but it's ok because it's the same city?! It's BS imo. It shouldn't be an IHSAA decision if a family wants to move to another city.

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I think it says a lot that most of these cases get reversed when appealed. And listen getting them back is bad for us but at some point common sense needs to prevail.

 

I got to meet the 2 guys at the IHPO and both are awesome kids.

 

I agree you should not be allowed to "recruit" but there is no evidence of that. Vega is a great coach with a great program the saying is if you build it they will come. 

 

So my fingers are crossed for my bretheren up north and hope it all turns out good because ultimately its whats better for the fans of the sport. 

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I think it says a lot that most of these cases get reversed when appealed. And listen getting them back is bad for us but at some point common sense needs to prevail.

 

I got to meet the 2 guys at the IHPO and both are awesome kids.

 

I agree you should not be allowed to "recruit" but there is no evidence of that. Vega is a great coach with a great program the saying is if you build it they will come. 

 

So my fingers are crossed for my bretheren up north and hope it all turns out good because ultimately its whats better for the fans of the sport. 

Ohh sooo you're overlooking the #SuperChargers

 

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