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NWCA Duals schedule


rookie78

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I would like to point out the success and growth of the Heartland Duals out in Council Bluffs. Fred Franklin is the guy that puts that on. It is truly an amazing event. The organization is incredible. The facilities and competition are second to none. This event has grown into a monster. They had around 30 elementary and 30 middle school teams this year (from many states).

 

Then you look at two other events that used to be the tops for these age groups (AAU duals in Kingsport and Middle School National Duals in Danville). These two events are in decent locations and venues, but they do not come close to what you get out in Council Bluffs. Like the duals in question, these other events are dying.

 

The bottom line is that if we stay par for the course and don't continue to improve our events, someone else will put on a bigger better event. Not sure what it is, at the high school level. Perhaps many kids are just waiting to go to the monster that is Virginia Beach Duals? We need to make some changes or our event will continue to dissolve.

 

Triple B.... do you think that we could put on a dual that could be similar to what you were able to witness at the Heartland Duals???? And... Did you make it over to the casino???

Mattyb - quite a few of us had the opportunity to experience Kingsport and Heartland this month. I'd not say Kingsport was suffering. The interesting thing about the two were that there were few groups that overlapped other than PA, IL & IN. The geographical and affiliation differences are probably more at play than anything else.

 

The odd thing about about this discussion is no one is voicing what seems to be the clear issue regarding choice and value other than Joe C. Is it possible to inquire what the kids' and parents' decision points were? This is probably only the case if offered/earned a spot on Gold/Silver but took the dark horse option...  Kids like the swag now. The elementary kids and parents were really pleased with JMILL & Lauren's gear for Heartland esp for the rate charged. So, the value and coolness factors played a role in customer satisfaction. 

 

Has anyone engaged a chamber of commerce/tourism office to help the event like visitkingsport.com or the group from Council Bluffs. That type of partnership can't hurt either....

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This event has devolved to become a decent regional dual.  Absolutely not a big time, big deal event.  I think some folks believe it is still a big event but it clearly isn't.  Joe posted that only 6 states are represented. That much alone should tell you what you need to know.

 

If the host state can't even put together all their best on one team, then why would other states waste the effort and travel here with their own best?  We are left with an average regional tournament instead of the premier event it used to be. (Even when it was in Delaware with their screen door factories)

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Mattyb - quite a few of us had the opportunity to experience Kingsport and Heartland this month. I'd not say Kingsport was suffering. The interesting thing about the two were that there were few groups that overlapped other than PA, IL & IN. The geographical and affiliation differences are probably more at play than anything else.

 

The odd thing about about this discussion is no one is voicing what seems to be the clear issue regarding choice and value other than Joe C. Is it possible to inquire what the kids' and parents' decision points were? This is probably only the case if offered/earned a spot on Gold/Silver but took the dark horse option...  Kids like the swag now. The elementary kids and parents were really pleased with JMILL & Lauren's gear for Heartland esp for the rate charged. So, the value and coolness factors played a role in customer satisfaction. 

 

Has anyone engaged a chamber of commerce/tourism office to help the event like visitkingsport.com or the group from Council Bluffs. That type of partnership can't hurt either....

 

Good point with the chamber of commerce but they need to  get better  teams first.

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Mattyb - quite a few of us had the opportunity to experience Kingsport and Heartland this month. I'd not say Kingsport was suffering. The interesting thing about the two were that there were few groups that overlapped other than PA, IL & IN. The geographical and affiliation differences are probably more at play than anything else.

 

The odd thing about about this discussion is no one is voicing what seems to be the clear issue regarding choice and value other than Joe C. Is it possible to inquire what the kids' and parents' decision points were? This is probably only the case if offered/earned a spot on Gold/Silver but took the dark horse option...  Kids like the swag now. The elementary kids and parents were really pleased with JMILL & Lauren's gear for Heartland esp for the rate charged. So, the value and coolness factors played a role in customer satisfaction. 

 

Has anyone engaged a chamber of commerce/tourism office to help the event like visitkingsport.com or the group from Council Bluffs. That type of partnership can't hurt either....

I know John Cook works with the local visitor's bureau very closely. They help out by "donating" some hotel rooms and other things. However, one thing I saw was that the local hotels jack up their prices by $30-50 for the weekend due to it being an "event weekend."

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I appreciate the blame for the downfall of the event...however don't let facts get in the way of your thoughts.

 

2008- 14 + New England states in York, Pennsylvania
2009- 12 + New England states in York, Pennsylvania
*2010- 12 states(Colorado, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia)
2011- 11 states(Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia)
2012- 10 states(Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Virginia)
**2013- 9 states(Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia)
2014- 7 states(Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Minnesota, Ohio, Virginia)
2015- 7 states(Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Minnesota, Ohio, Virginia)
2016- 6 states(Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, North Dakota, Ohio)
*First year at Wabash
***First year for the Gorillas
 
I'm pretty certain the Gorillas were not the reason for the recent loss of Michigan, Minnesota, and Virginia.
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If the host state can't even put together all their best on one team, then why would other states waste the effort and travel here with their own best?  We are left with an average regional tournament instead of the premier event it used to be. (Even when it was in Delaware with their screen door factories)

 

Limit the Event to one to two teams per state if thats what you want....Thats what Cadet and Junior Duals does. However this isn't that event...it's a regional level all star dual where you field a team and go there is no need for there to be state affiliation nor do the kids on your team have to even live in your state.

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If the host state can't even put together all their best on one team, then why would other states waste the effort and travel here with their own best?  We are left with an average regional tournament instead of the premier event it used to be. (Even when it was in Delaware with their screen door factories)

 

Is that what Michigan, Pennsylvania, Iowa, etc are saying?  Then the answer is to only allow 2 schools per state and magically all the states will come.  Problem solved.  Kick the boogie man out.

Limit the Event to one to two teams per state if thats what you want....Thats what Cadet and Junior Duals does. However this isn't that event...it's a regional level all star dual where you field a team and go there is no need for there to be state affiliation nor do the kids on your team have to even live in your state.

 Nor be in high school, it appears Ohio had some 8th graders

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Jones, I think that Kingsport helped their cause this year by allowing 6th graders. I think that Frank (the guy who runs that one) saw a fall off and made a change to boost his event this year. Prime example of making an adjustment to give your customers what they want.

 

With this said, it appears that an adjustment or two may be in order to keep this event going strong. Not sure what they would be? Would like to hear some ideas from the folks that have been around this event.

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I appreciate the blame for the downfall of the event...however don't let facts get in the way of your thoughts.

 

...
 
I'm pretty certain the Gorillas were not the reason for the recent loss of Michigan, Minnesota, and Virginia.

 

I never blamed you for the downfall.  The loss of teams is what created the openings for other teams like the gorillas.

 

I am saying that the prestige of this event has fallen, so other states are not going to bring their best, either.  We can keep it as a good regional dual event to get younger wrestlers more experience or we can take a lot of effort to bring it back to what it once was.  It would be nice to have a real folkstyle national duals event, whether it's this one or a different one.

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The problem with the event is very simple and until it is fixed, the event will slowly crumble.  I heard words mentioned this year that I have never heard before since it moved to Indiana.  Words like "it needs to move back to the East Coast so those states will get involved again".

 

The issue is just as Joe mentioned.  The teams from the other states have stopped coming.  Why are the Renegades and Gorillas allowed to compete? Why did they even get spots in the event in the first place?  Its quite easy.  You have an event that can handle 24-32 teams and it only has 18 teams.  The tournament chair needs a certain amount of money to make the tournament go and that means he needs as many $550.00 entry fees as he can get.  If he does not have enough teams to pay the bills, and if Joe calls and wants to put a team in, he is going to say yes.  Its that simple.  The only thing stopping him at 6 Indiana teams is that he knows in his heart that 6 Indiana teams is too many for a "national event".

 

If the event could be marketed better and get back to the glory days where there were 10-14 states represented with multiple teams, then teams like the Renegades and the Gorillas would not even be allowed into the event due to no open spots.  This would be a great thing.

 

As far as what the make up of the teams should be.  Once again, it goes back the the glory days where this event was much deeper and there were many more "state sponsored" teams.  It even says in writing, in the entry packet info for the event, t something to the effect of "this is a national championship event and the states are encouraged to build their teams by using a qualifying system"  It also mentions using the best underclassmen from the state finals.  All of this goes back to what the event once was versus what it has become.  The states that are here now (other than Colorado, Indiana, and Illinois) do not know what it once was, and the states that were once there (see EAST COAST and OHIO) are no longer there.  It is a completely different event today.

 

Nobody is wrong in their views.  Its just different now than it once was.  I for one wish we could get the event back to 24 teams from 12-14 states with teams full of the very best kids in the country filling dual meet teams and fighting for state bragging rights.  That can happen if it is marketed correctly and if there is a corporate sponsor added to the mix.  After that happens, then get with Joe or another sponsor (I may know one...hmmmm) to break out the killer gear and help offset the cost of our best kids being on the team and everything takes care of itself.

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To me it also seems some of the better/best kids are becoming selective of which tournaments and how many tournaments they are going to in the off season.  For example you can travel around to different RTC's in Indiana and roll with some pretty great/best kids around for free and longer times.  Indiana wasn't the only team that had better/best kids spread around on different teams. The Illinois team that won have kids from around the Chicago area (Info came from one of the other Illinois team coaches).  Sometimes the best teams aren't the ones that have the greatest talent, but have the best chemistry.  I saw a lot of kids having fun during this tournament and there was some very tough kids.  I saw National champs, state champs, state and national placers in almost every match.  I know it used to be even bigger, but still has a lot of quality kids. 

 

I think the most impressive thing I took away from this weekend was that there are a lot of Indiana kids wrestling out of season. 

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Perhaps you missed where the Gold team placed higher and beat the Gorillas team. Don't let facts get in your way. 

 

I think it's you who has missed the point.  If boys would rather wrestle on the Gorillas team, knowing that it most likely will not be the best team from Indiana, then maybe the Gold and Blue teams need to change their ways......just sayin'.

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I think it's you who has missed the point. If boys would rather wrestle on the Gorillas team, knowing that it most likely will not be the best team from Indiana, then maybe the Gold and Blue teams need to change their ways......just sayin'.

Please stay in the shallow end, you're going to hurt yourself playing with the big kids. The other poster stated that the very best would rather wrestle for the Gorillas, I pointed out that his statement was not the truth, as the Gold team not only placed higher, but beat them head to head. So you see, that means that the best wrestlers for the most part, wrestled for the Gold team since they won. I hope that helped you to understand my point and the difference between fact and fiction, thanks for chiming in, it was fun.

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Please stay in the shallow end, you're going to hurt yourself playing with the big kids. The other poster stated that the very best would rather wrestle for the Gorillas, I pointed out that his statement was not the truth, as the Gold team not only placed higher, but beat them head to head. So you see, that means that the best wrestlers for the most part, wrestled for the Gold team since they won. I hope that helped you to understand my point and the difference between fact and fiction, thanks for chiming in, it was fun.

Your point is well taken, but my point is if not all but "any" of the top kids at any weight class choose to participate in an "other than Indiana gold or blue team", there must be a reason.  Further to my point, if the 6 wrestlers on the Gorillas team who beat their corresponding opponent on the Indiana Gold team would have wrestled on said team, I believe we would have had better results.  Do you not agree? 

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The couple of kids that the Gold team wanted that went to the Gorillas because of the atmosphere, relationship with Nick, Joe, and the rest of the Gorillas. The gear is far better for a more reasonable price. Sweet gear can change a lot of minds.

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I don't need to measure anything on my body with a ruler to justify my point, especially when I'm speaking the truth. Coulda, shoulda, woulda is a fun place to live, I just prefer to live in the real world, where facts can be proven with results and data.

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