Y2CJ41 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Everyone on this topic WANTS to wrestle freestyle, but have a limited schedule with wrestling and LIFE going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig40 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 If ISWA would have just made a 1 tournament exemption for any of these 3 (USA Nationals, USA National Middle School Duals, and Heartland Elementary duals) there would not have been this outcry. They also should have taken in account for those wrestlers injured. The reason everyone is so pissed off is because the kids this rule is hurting are the kids that are wrestling every weekend, the kids that are training 3 days a week and doing private lessons in Greco, the kids that are trying to better themselves wrestling the best competition in the country, the kids that are going to the RTC's. The people who chose to have a vacation or take a week off are not on here pissed off, all the people that are posting are parents with children who work their butt off and just want their kids to be able to go to their state tournament and showcase how hard they have been working. So the reason I made this topic was in hope that ISWA would make a change once they saw how many people they were upsetting in this organization, but instead they turned blame on their members and didn't listen at all to our concerns. And yes I called and emailed Louis Rosbottom, who did not want to hear any of these concerns. The hundreds of dollars we spent at all 3 of the above events as a ISWA team member meant nothing to them, so yes I am bitter and completely unhappy with ISWA. What does this teach your kid? Why did he work hard to make these teams just to be punished by not being allowed in the state meet? The kids at RWA will continue to train freestyle and Greco and they will be ready to wrestle when the opportunity presents itself... apparently it won't be for ISWA events. takedownartist, TripleB, IU89 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 In the interest of participation, I would recommend that there are 2 dedicated weekends for freestyle during the shortened season. Weekend #1 would be scheduled where it hopefully does *NOT* conflict with the major ISWA-sponsored national folkstyle events that Sig has mentioned. Week #1 - Schedule 4 regional tournaments for freestyle. Could style it after the semistate arrangements or possibly have 5 and include a Indianapolis west-side tournament. In order to promote attendance and the value proposition at these, could bring in a few good clinicians to each regional site to run sessions during down times. Everyone likes "free" quality instruction! Week #2 - Freestyle State. Week #1 is not mandatory, however the top 4? 8? placers from the regional tournaments get seeded for freestyle state. If you didn't or couldn't participate in the regional tournament, you can still wrestle at freestyle state, but you have to go in the bracket as an unseeded wrestler Outside of those 2 weeks, encourage more of the events like the one held at Warren, which could be scheduled on weeknights and leave weekends open. Make these quick, largely unorganized events with the goal of bringing in a large amount of kids,letting them see wrestlers that aren't in their local club, and try out the instructions they've been working on for freestyle and greco. indypharmd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 There seems to be a great deal of consensus that ISWA folkstyle state for juniors/cadets is unnecessary. Perhaps, redundant. I know ISWA really would like to keep those junior and cadet entry fees at folkstyle state. But if they truly want to display a commitment to fs/gr, then eliminate junior/cadet folk state, which would add another weekend opportunity into the fs/gr calendar for tournaments. TripleB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Another splendid idea! I'm sure it will be construed as your kids not wanting to wrestle freestyle however. As I've said before there is a tremendous difference between encouraging people to do local tournaments and forcing them to do local tournaments. Freestyle and Greco are already the unwanted step-brothers and the ISWA is now just giving people a reason to not do the styles altogether. There seems to be a great deal of consensus that ISWA folkstyle state for juniors/cadets is unnecessary. Perhaps, redundant. I know ISWA really would like to keep those junior and cadet entry fees at folkstyle state. But if they truly want to display a commitment to fs/gr, then eliminate junior/cadet folk state, which would add another weekend opportunity into the fs/gr calendar for tournaments. As much as you are right the ISWA would NEVER do that. They would be throwing away 850 entries aka almost $30K! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swain358 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 We are down to one maybe two kids wrestling at freestyle state and one kid wrestling at Greco state. Last year we had 11 at freestyle state. The year before that we sent 12. Two tournament rule wiped out pretty much our entire group of guys that wanted to wrestle (14).. It is what it is.. Just going to focus on Summer Folkstyle team camp we have coming up.. Hopefully this ridiculous qualification rule is gone next year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Morgan Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 We could always go back to the place top 3 at a local tournament rule. Ryanjw2153 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrick Snyder Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I just wanted to mention that I personally would hate to see Folkstyle State go away. For us at Brownsburg it is an important part of the beggining of our off-season. We certainly don't think it is unnecessary for Cadets and Juniors. We always bring a huge crowd. Our guys always get outstanding competition...our developmental guys get to wrestle on a big stage and if they last long enough get to wrestle a hammer. Our hammers get mutiple matches and eventually tough matches. #PainTrain Snyder KyleM and Anthony Snyder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grappleapple Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 There seems to be a great deal of consensus that ISWA folkstyle state for juniors/cadets is unnecessary. Perhaps, redundant. I know ISWA really would like to keep those junior and cadet entry fees at folkstyle state. But if they truly want to display a commitment to fs/gr, then eliminate junior/cadet folk state, which would add another weekend opportunity into the fs/gr calendar for tournaments. I love ISWA Folkstyle state. Obviously it's also a very popular tournament. I wouldn't change it at all. My sons do wrestle freestyle and Greco as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Nevertheless, this entire thread was about boycotting freestyle state, for whatever reason, but this doesn't hurt the ISWA even remotely close to as much as it does our current and future Indiana wrestlers - regardless of the reason. So, with that said, the real issue becomes informing EVERYONE as to why. Below I have attached a link that some of us have seen but that we all need see: Let's change Indiana's culture together!! Coach makes some excellent points. But I'd be very surprise if anyone's goal was to "hurt" the ISWA. The only way individuals that feel "wronged" by establishment of any kind, to voice their displeasure is through protest, in this case boycott. So while it's difficult to disagree with coach hull and the fact that the boycott path hurts the kids and Indiana wrestling first and foremost. History has shown absolutely that if your not prepared to step out of line for what you believe in, NOTHING will change. Least of all establishment. I was not really in favor of this "boycott" until the ISWA "process" hit me at home. And I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case with most, if not all, that are choosing this path. IMO it's the governing bodies responsibility to be flexible in these situations. And they have not been. Here's a crazy idea... NO QUALIFICATION necessary for freestyle state. NONE. If the number one goal is truly to have the greatest number of kids compete in freestyle, why then are the kids and their families given any challenge at all when it's come to competing???? I don't think it's a stretch to say numbers at freestyle state would be very nearly equal to folkstyle state if no qualification was necessary. I've stayed away from getting involved in this since my kids were absolutely screwed by the ISWA not granting a waiver for their documented injuries. In the beginning, I wanted to give the ISWA an opportunity to do the right thing in granting injury wavier. It's very simple. We have doctor and PT documentation but still denied. And I'm supposed to respect that type of irresponsible leadership from our governing body??? It's pathetic. But, this is just my story, and my sons are only two Indiana wrestlers. But both want to have an opportunity to compete if they are physically able. From where I sit, it would appear to be a simple case of indifference. Granted, appearance can be deceiving, until it's consistent. And if nothing else it has been consistent. Allowing these "situational qualifiers" is nothing less than a slap in the face to those kids that have legitimate situations that don't allow them to compete or qualify. So, PRAY TELL. What, EXACTLY, would be the worst case scenario of no qualifying for freestyle state??? And would it even approach this debacle? grappleapple and IU89 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Coach makes some excellent points. But I'd be very surprise if anyone's goal was to "hurt" the ISWA. The only way individuals that feel "wronged" by establishment of any kind, to voice their displeasure is through protest, in this case boycott. So while it's difficult to disagree with coach hull and the fact that the boycott path hurts the kids and Indiana wrestling first and foremost. History has shown absolutely that if your not prepared to step out of line for what you believe in, NOTHING will change. Least of all establishment. I was not really in favor of this "boycott" until the ISWA "process" hit me at home. And I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case with most, if not all, that are choosing this path. IMO it's the governing bodies responsibility to be flexible in these situations. And they have not been. Here's a crazy idea... NO QUALIFICATION necessary for freestyle state. NONE. If the number one goal is truly to have the greatest number of kids compete in freestyle, why then are the kids and their families given any challenge at all when it's come to competing???? I don't think it's a stretch to say numbers at freestyle state would be very nearly equal to folkstyle state if no qualification was necessary. I've stayed away from getting involved in this since my kids were absolutely screwed by the ISWA not granting a waiver for their documented injuries. In the beginning, I wanted to give the ISWA an opportunity to do the right thing in granting injury wavier. It's very simple. We have doctor and PT documentation but still denied. And I'm supposed to respect that type of irresponsible leadership from our governing body??? It's pathetic. But, this is just my story, and my sons are only two Indiana wrestlers. But both want to have an opportunity to compete if they are physically able. From where I sit, it would appear to be a simple case of indifference. Granted, appearance can be deceiving, until it's consistent. And if nothing else it has been consistent. Allowing these "situational qualifiers" is nothing less than a slap in the face to those kids that have legitimate situations that don't allow them to compete or qualify. So, PRAY TELL. What, EXACTLY, would be the worst case scenario of no qualifying for freestyle state??? And would it even approach this debacle? According to Coach Hull, your sons not getting a waiver is the fault of the people who bitched and moaned about last years last second waiver process. It's painfully obvious that the 2 meet rule was the ISWA's attempt to force wrestlers to local club meets, to financially help the local clubs. Perhaps the local club weekend meet is not the appropriate business model anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Really 11 pages for this? Top 3 at a tournament and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grappleapple Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I'd rather everyone be able to get in, rather than go with a top 3 scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Here's (yet another) possible solution... First, extend Freestyle/Greco season a few weeks. Move up Folkstyle state 2 weeks and push back Freestyle/Greco state 1 week. 3 ways to qualify for state: A- On an ISWA team. Make a list of which teams auto qualify its members. These wrestlers all train seriously and will train for Freestyle specifically for state. B- Place top 3 at one local tournament. Set criteria for what a qualifying tournament must be. C- Participate at 3 local events (2 if season isn't extended). Wrestlers who can't qualify with A or B could use the extra experience and preparation before state. Medical waivers are up for debate. For very rare circumstances, they can help. But they also open the door for abuse of the system. Feel free to rip this idea apart or add to it. Edited April 29, 2016 by GrecoCoach Sig40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If we MUST have qualifying criteria, we should add something like attending 2 RTC practices is equal to a local event. Considering most practices are 2 hours you get way more mat time than going to a local event. Going from just under 800 to 650 from 2014 to 2015 at freestyle state says the qualifiers are not helping. Right now without a few tournaments live on trackwrestling there are only 620 wrestlers qualified for state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If there is no requirement for qualifying then how do you suggest we get kids to wrestle in local events? Why would a club want to host an event if there wasn't a requirement to participate? Ohio has a requirement to compete in their State Finals. Illinois does not. Illinois had about 650 for their State Greco last week and over 950 for FS this weekend. Both states have a petition process to make the trip to Fargo. I am thinking something like this... Wrestle in a USAW National or Regional event prior to the State Final regardless of style, counts as a one event waiver Extend the season and require 2 events. See above for the waiver Place Top 3 in a local event-automatic qualify All American in FS or GR previous year-automatic qualify. Injury waiver-only if on Physician's Letterhead and must be out for 2 weeks or more. Sig40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grappleapple Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 We would participate in local tournaments even if we didn't have to, because it's competition. But, if you have to promote local tourneys, make there be team competitions and allow schools to put whatever kid they wanted on a team. I know my kids would love to wrestle alongside some of their friends from other schools. Make the medals be something the kids want. Keep a record-book for each season where you can post past-winners, most pins, etc. And, most importantly, promote the tourney like crazy. Wrestlers want to wrestle. Take away any qualifier for state. I don't understand the reasoning behind them. If the numbers are declining at state, why put any more restrictions on it? Folkstyle state is very well attended, and there are no qualifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 If there is no requirement for qualifying then how do you suggest we get kids to wrestle in local events? Why would a club want to host an event if there wasn't a requirement to participate? Ohio has a requirement to compete in their State Finals. Illinois does not. Illinois had about 650 for their State Greco last week and over 950 for FS this weekend. Both states have a petition process to make the trip to Fargo. I am thinking something like this... Wrestle in a USAW National or Regional event prior to the State Final regardless of style, counts as a one event waiver Extend the season and require 2 events. See above for the waiver Place Top 3 in a local event-automatic qualify All American in FS or GR previous year-automatic qualify. Injury waiver-only if on Physician's Letterhead and must be out for 2 weeks or more. Local tournaments are dying because people don't want to sit in a gym all day long any more. The model for the local events is a dying one unless you are creative and are able to bring in the masses. Kids get a lot better experience at an RTC with multiple partners, hands on coaching, and not having to worry about a 5lbs or 2 year age difference. Ohio has qualifiers, top six at one of six tournaments all on different weekends, for cadets and juniors ONLY. Schoolboy and below do not have to qualify. Michigan requires Schoolboy and below to participate in one local event to qualify for state. The folkstyle tournaments are doing fine and yet there is no standard qualifier for folkstyle state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 And volunteers like me are losing their interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 The past two years have killed my excitement for freestyle season. At the beginning of the season I'll ask kids if they are going to be able to get their qualifiers in. Only a few will say they will be able to and thus a room of 25-30, only a handful are truly working on freestyle. Three years ago I had 17 kids at state, now I have three going. It is tremendously easier to tell a kid to mark off ONE weekend to wrestle freestyle than three during an already hectic spring time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takedownartist Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) The killing of Freestyle by Folkstyle is hard for me to watch. I asked many parents " Why isn't your little guy wrestling Freestyle and/or Greco? " Top 3 answers: 1. He doesn't understand it. 2. They do not give rides for freestyle. 3. Not enough weekends to get 2 qualifiers . The first two ones are easy to answer. 1. Wrestle at a local RTC or even local club that wrestles until Freestyle State. 2. Fargo is the biggest tournament in the world with the most college coaches watching which btw is Freestyle and Greco. What is more impressive....a Folkstyle State Champ or a Freestyle National Champ who won in a weight class that was stacked with state champs? Who would you recruit? 3. Not so much easily explained. Please ISWA lets update some requirements.....let's make our future Fargo Teams even better by not restricting the kiddies. Edited April 29, 2016 by takedownartist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ds Dad Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 How about this. Coaches want cadet and junior folkstyle state right? We don't have enough freestyle and greco tournaments and coaches and parents can't get kids to two tournaments right? So why not run local folkstyle tournaments to a certain point say mid to late January. Have a kids state tournament at that point. Run freestyle and greco tournaments the rest of the way. This will allow the elementary, middle school, JV kids and high school kids that lose at sectional, regional and semi-state to get more freestyle and greco tournaments in. Then either the day after or the weekend after have a cadet, junior, senior, university and veteran folkstyle state. Then freestyle from there. I'm sure the top 16 kids in the state that want to wrestle at folkstyle state would be willing to do that. This will in turn give them more opportunities at freestyle and greco tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualwrestlingfan Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Youth and high school sports have it all wrong. College and professional/Olympic sports are to blame. Majority of kids and parents are focusing on one sport all year long regardless if it's wrestling, basketball, baseball, football, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, softball, volleyball, or etc. All in hopes for a free education and/or a payday which maybe a quarter or less will achieve. The 3 styles of wrestling are a good example. Then we wonder why kids get burned out or become injured. There are 12 months in a year and we can have 4 sports seasons in which kids can play different sports and use different muscle groups. Limit sports seasons to 3 months max. This would help smaller schools compete in more sports as well. If you only want to do wrestling all year, then have freestyle in the fall, folkstyle in the winter, greco in the spring, and do combination style of the three in summer. Freshen it up for the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Per TrackWrestling counts last year there were 827 wrestlers that qualified for state with only 647 wrestling. Of those 647, 70 of them were most likely waiver kids. This year 667 have qualified for state, this is without including Chesterton Duals, Carmel Duals(2 days), Warren Mystery Meat, and the CIA last chance. Sadly it looks as if it will be tough to crack the 500 mark this year. #GoodbyeFreestyle #NiceKnowingYou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGarcia Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Wonder what kind of mystery (Meat) they was serving at Warren? Edited May 2, 2016 by TeamGarcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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