UncleJimmy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Eww eww I got a response. This is fun. Maybe we should start a yearly thread that we can have both Illinios and Indiana people post on and we can really get the pot stirred up and build some hype behind these duels. I would love to see it. FYI I also wrestled in college in Illinios for a year. So I do have respect for them but I stick by my "piss on em" statement. Great idea. It can be like the old CNN Point/Counterpoint...and we could use some #SweetHashTags to make it fun!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Of course the discussion should take place on our board because theirs sucks in comparison. (Just trying to get the party started right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The irony that "infinate wisdom" used the wrong version of your is still cracking me up. And I'm going to shoot myself for pointing this out, but of course illinois has more depth, 6 million more people live there. throw45 and aoberlin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 There's no doubt they have more depth than us and far outdo us by almost any metric. But we are very, very strong by our standards this year at the top of almost every weight. According to national rankings, we would be favored in 6 of 14 matches in a straight-up, best-guy-available dual against Illinois right now. We also had a national Top 20 guy not place and a Top 5 national guy place 7th (both of those guys were ranked based on many out-of-state victories over top competition in the offseason). Our depth isn't Illinois' depth and we would be fooling ourselves to think so, but we're a strong state compared to the rest of the country. DelCo and vito pepperelli 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Ironically, a strong argument could be made that Illinois' one 4x undefeated champ, Josh Alber, would not have been a 4xer, much less undefeated, in Indiana. The unbiased truth is that every undefeated wrestler throughout history, no matter the era or state, needed some luck and timing to go even one season undefeated. Alber isn't the greatest Illinois wrestler of all time, but the stars were aligned for him. TShipleyViking, Coach Nieman and vito pepperelli 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 There's no doubt that illinois is an elite wrestling state. They have superior numbers, superior depth and they work on the international styles in a way that puts nearly every other state to shame. That said, their fans are notoriously delusional regarding their assessments of Indiana kids. Pay attention to their comments any time our guys beat their guys, and you'll slap your forehead in befuddled wonder. They have a tad more respect for indiana Region guys, because they feel some sort of geographical connection to them, but even still they posted derogatory things about the Tsirtsis boys, Howe, Escobedo, et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 "the better question is would he of even been a state champ here? i think he beats williams and i think vs yates this year its a toss up in my opinion rudy was his most dominate fresman and jr.yea 1 maybe 2 timer at bestr for red in illinois" HAHAHAHAHA wow. 2 timer "at bestr" if he lived in Illinois. And this year, the year that he has beaten Lamont, Nick Lee, and Pletcher(who beat Yianni earlier in the day) would be a toss up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) "the better question is would he of even been a state champ here? i think he beats williams and i think vs yates this year its a toss up in my opinion rudy was his most dominate fresman and jr.yea 1 maybe 2 timer at bestr for red in illinois" HAHAHAHAHA wow. 2 timer "at bestr" if he lived in Illinois. And this year, the year that he has beaten Lamont, Nick Lee, and Pletcher(who beat Yianni earlier in the day) would be a toss up. I agree with that. Yates beat three-timer Kris Williams in his senior year twice last year (Williams is now at Nebraska) and two-timer Dylan Duncan three times this year (Duncan is a major national player). Yates is tough as nails and would give Red as good or better of a battle than Lee did. Edited March 11, 2016 by busstogate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I think Lee would beat Yates. Coach Nieman and parris58 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datdude Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Lee would beat Yates by 4-6 points. Red would beat Yates as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Da problem wit Illinois da have to many champs. AAA AA A it wraslin - individual sport. Winning in da small divisons is like kissin your sister. My gosh why dont we play soccer and not keep score. Red most likely would be a 4x in Illionois. Andrew Howe would have been a 4x in Illionos - dose dat mean we are better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Only someone in serious denial would believe that Indiana is superior to Illinois as a wrestling state. There really is no comparison regarding depth and performance in Greco-Roman and freestyle. Illinois and indiana are two different animals entirely, as a whole. However, our elite guys, the truly elite, would be similarly elite in Illinois. Kentucky's truly elite would be elite in Illinois. The illinois fans aren't satisfied with merely being better than Indiana--they consistently downgrade our best guys and make ridiculous excuses when our guys beat theirs. They have a few voices of reason and common sense, but the majority are very disparaging and dismissive when discussing indiana's best. If you don't believe me, just check in over there once in a while, especially when indiana kids beat theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) While it's true everyone is entitled to their opinion and IN has vastly improved over the past 5-7 years at the national level. IL numbers alone are much high as far as participation in the sport. That alone create a huge depth difference. I do believe IL has been top 2 in fargo AA's for a few years now I do also know for a fact that a Yates vs Red match could have happened... Edited March 12, 2016 by MCKAJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TShipleyViking Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 i dont understand why people knock on red so much, his freshman year almost everybody cheered for him then by his senior year it was a lot against him. why can't people just be more positive forward all the wrestlers, nick lee is a stud, chad red is a stud. there are lots of studs, red doesn't have to prove himself to anyone other than himself yet he is still the best and has proved that to everyone, reds celebration and words on the telly this year at state weren't bad, they were directed toward all the doubt and he deserved to say what he said. he a great kid, a great wrestle, and has a great future in store, just like many. backtothemat, KarlHungus and indypharmd 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I think some people don't feel comfortable with the way he celebrates after a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I think some people don't feel comfortable with the way he celebrates after a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loscoz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If Chad Red lived in Illinios then we would not be having this conversation and would be talking about Nick Lee and who came in second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guru Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If Chad Red lived in Illinois, he'd be a god and they'd be taking credit for creating the next Burroughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40254-by-the-numbers-2016-ncaa-s ^ interesting article by flowrestling and I think really contributes to this discussion. Every state is going to drink their own kool-aid to some extent but when it comes down to the numbers between Illinois and Indiana there is no comparison, which most people on this board have agreed. However, the same could be said when it comes to PA and every other state... there really is no comparison. So Illinois should come down off of their pedestal and join the rest of us. Chad Red is a 4x undefeated wrestler in what is an ever improving wrestling state. He has earned his number 1 national ranking and like all 4x undefeated wrestlers he experienced some luck with his timing blended with obvious hard work, technical skills, and natural talent. NCAA Qualifiers By State:PA - 63OH - 31IL, NJ - 27CA - 19MI - 15NY - 12IA - 11MN - 10CO, MO, VA - 9FL, GA, IN - 7OK - 6MD, OR, WA - 5AZ, CT, SD - 4KS, KY, NC, TX, WV - 3DE, HI, NE, WI - 2AL, ID, NM, SC, TN, UT, VT, WY - 1Canada - 1Finland - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There is Pennsylvania on their own tier then Illinois is with Ohio, New Jersey, and California on the second tier. Illinois is definitely a top 5 state consistently where arguments could be made for the #2 or 3 any year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) so 2 of the 4 you have listed in the 2nd tier are single class states.... *stirs the pot* Edited March 21, 2016 by MD92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) NCAA Qualifiers By State: PA - 63 OH - 31 IL, NJ - 27 CA - 19 MI - 15 NY - 12 IA - 11 MN - 10 CO, MO, VA - 9 FL, GA, IN - 7 OK - 6 MD, OR, WA - 5 AZ, CT, SD - 4 KS, KY, NC, TX, WV - 3 DE, HI, NE, WI - 2 AL, ID, NM, SC, TN, UT, VT, WY - 1 Canada - 1 Finland - 1 While those numbers are quite informative, they do not tell the whole story. If you dig just a little deeper & rank the states by qualifiers per capita the list looks only a little different. PA - 1/202,972 IA - 1/283,466 NJ - 1/331,044 OH - 1/374,005 IL - 1/440,059 IN - 1/942,408 CA - 1/2,042,237 As you can see, Pennsylvania is still king with 1 qualifier for every 202,972 residents. What is noteworthy is that while Iowa is not impressive with pure numbers they are in per capita. Also worth noting is that California is not so impressive when considering per capita - only 1 qualifier for roughly every 2 million residents. Lastly, while Illinois is still impressive they do fall from a tie for 3rd to 5th, but they are still superior to Indiana by a factor of just more than 2. Edited March 23, 2016 by SIACfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 But size of state shouldn't matter...if you work hard enough, right? Sorry, the smart alec in me just couldn't resist. IU89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) But size of state shouldn't matter...if you work hard enough, right? Sorry, the smart alec in me just couldn't resist. Actually the per capita numbers proves that statement to be correct. Iowa is a small state by population yet churns out a very impressive number of elite wrestlers, and California is the largest state in the nation & has a very poor per capita number. Edited March 23, 2016 by SIACfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm curious how you can tell kids from California work harder than ones in California based off of per capita numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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