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How To: Indiana as a top 5 wrestling state


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I actually intend on pursuing refereeing as a part-time job in order to help pay some college expenses! Thanks for the productive post!

 

Refereeing should never be a part-time job. It should be a passion. Otherwise you will be just like all the other referees who are single handedly holding back wrestling in our state.

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Refereeing should never be a part-time job. It should be a passion. Otherwise you will be just like all the other referees who are single handedly holding back wrestling in our state.

Part-time job in terms of I will not support my life on it. I love the sport of wrestling. I wrestled for thirteen years and continue to actively advocate for IHSAA wrestling. I am by no means dispassionate about wrestling.

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In order to become a licensed IHSAA wrestling official you can follow this link for details on the process.http://www.ihsaa.org...72/Default.aspx

********************************************************************************************

Specific points about the On-Line Testing Process that you need to know:

- The testing process is an on-line application. No longer do you need to plan to be at

a site on a certain day. You do need to have access to a computer to take the test. You

will need to plan when to take the test within the Testing Period indicated for each sport and

submit your results before the deadline. This is not a timed test.

- No on-site paper and pencil tests will be provided unless you are taking a class in that sport.

- Application Deadlines must be met.

- The test is composed of 100 questions, mostly True-False, but a few multiple choice. You must earn 75% or better on the test to

become licensed.

- You should receive your rules books from IHSAA as soon as they are published and available by the NFHS. If you are testing in more than one sport, the books for the later

seasons will be sent when those books arrive in the IHSAA office. Please begin to study for the test

upon receipt of the rules books.

- You may only take a test one time within a program year. If you do not meet the 75%

standard this program year, you will need to wait until the next program year to apply again.

- You should not apply to take a test in any sport whose deadline dates have passed.

- You should receive immediate feedback on your test results but you may not schedule

contests until you receive the insignias and license card from this office which should come

within 7-10 days after your test is submitted (and you have scored 75% or better).

**********************************************************************************************

 

Remember, you do not have to be licensed to officiate middle school events or elementary events, and this is a great venue to work and gain experience, especially for those of you who are unsure as to whether or not you actually want to proceed to the high school level. It's a perfect part-time job... especially for a college student. It's a 100 question test that is open book and done online, so you are allowed ample time to complete the examination with little or no stress.

Also keep in mind that nearly all officials begin at lower levels and work their way up, so you will not be thrust into the high profile varsity contest with 3000 screaming fans in the stands. If you like the sport and are physically able, becoming an official is a great hobby that pays well, gets you in the door for free, and gives you the best seat in the house!

 

 

Earlier in the thread Grecoref advocates doing the exact thing that Concussed and Confused says he's going to do...then Greco calls him out on it. What am I missing here? Is it a good part time job or is it not? Think the postseason postpartum depression is getting to everybody.....

 

 

Edited by UncleJimmy
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Guilty as charged! I actually copied and pasted that from the Ask The Official Page.

 

My point being we don't need part-time people. We need people who have a passion for wrestling and willing to make a commitment. Which would include being always willing to learn. As in reading what you copy and paste :D

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Remember, you do not have to be licensed to officiate middle school events or elementary events, and this is a great venue to work and gain experience, especially for those of you who are unsure as to whether or not you actually want to proceed to the high school level. It's a perfect part-time job... especially for a college student. It's a 100 question test that is open book and done online, so you are allowed ample time to complete the examination with little or no stress.

Also keep in mind that nearly all officials begin at lower levels and work their way up, so you will not be thrust into the high profile varsity contest with 3000 screaming fans in the stands. If you like the sport and are physically able, becoming an official is a great hobby that pays well, gets you in the door for free, and gives you the best seat in the house!

 

 

 

Nice post, but wrong place!  First before I get on my soapbox let me say I get what you are saying and why you are saying it, but believe it continues to be pointed to the people already devoting a ton of time into this sport.  Kind of like yelling at your wrestlers during Christmas break about the kids that are not there! Every time there is a question, problem or spit balling about a "ref call" it seems there is always the person in the room saying, "If you think you can do it better grab a whistle." Officiating or better yet how a match is officiated has huge impacts on outcomes, mostly in close matches.  So, to debate on how a call should be made or believing it could improve or hurt wrestling is a valid conversation.  There are a good chunk of us on here that are coaches and as you know this can take as little or a ton of time depending on the programs goals.  I would like to believe if people are on the message boards that they are pretty committed to the sport and putting more toward the tons of time into it.  I would also believe that we would love to be on the same page as the officials.

 

Now for my big gripes that will probably piss a few off!  Saying stuff about officiating wrestling always reminds me about how people don't talk bad about the country or military around vets, and yes I'm a vet! I for one think that before you guys continue to grow your officiating you all should get on the same page.  I had kids this year at sectionals (220 and HWT) taking 5:1 shots, attacking the whole time for 3 periods (well the HWT 2 1/4 periods, lets be honest he is a HWT) only to lose in overtime to a kid they out worked for 3 periods.  You have refs calling stalling if kids are backing out of the small circles, calling double stalling on heavy weights within the first 30 seconds of matches while working for position and the above mentioned problem of refs not calling it or waiting till the 3rd period to make it a factor.  While I'm on my soap box what is up with all the un-sportsman calls being thrown around this year.  I have kids getting drilled with taunting for working kids up and out of bounce because they refuse to turn in (just like college workups) and for going to a knee for locked hands (I was told this has been around for awhile I just have never seen it called), this must be one of these focus on this year things.  The only thing I believe wrestling and McDonalds should have in common, consistency! Unless you are bringing your coach a Big Mac with extra sauce! I mean really how many ways are there to stall, are you telling me there cannot be a 5 minute YouTube video put together to explain it or give coaches and officials a better understanding of it.

 

Rant over, sorry ahead of time I'm just tired of the inconsistency of it all!  And don't ask me to ref, because I work 50 hours a week and coach 30 - 50 hours a week depending on the time of year (sometimes more, but hardly ever less). 

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Officiating isn't easy. In fact, it's very difficult and not even close to being as easy as it looks.  It's kind of like watching golf on TV and then going out and trying to hit some of the shots those guys do. I say things on the golf course I wouldn't say anywhere else.  So, yes I do invite those who criticize the referees to grab a whistle and try it. Even if it's a youth tournament I know they will see how difficult it is. I also know we are not without fault. We are human and make mistakes. The human element will always be a part of any sport. A bad call that costs a kid a match is devastating to most referees.

 

Coaching isn't easy either. I was an assistant coach and a head coach at the high school level in Ohio before I became a referee. I have sat in your chair and I feel your pain.

 

To address some of your points...

 

Backing out of the 10 foot circle without making contact with your opponent is defined as stalling in the rule book.

 

Dropping down to one knee to entice a locking hands call is defined as unsportsmanlike conduct in the rule book.

 

Good sportsmanship has been emphasized the past several years and it has been part of the annual rules meetings. Wrestling is an honorable sport and all participants should conduct themselves accordingly.

 

To address you concern regarding consistency I would ask you why doesn't the worst kid in your room hit a double the same way the best kid in your room hits it? How many ways are there to hit a double? Don't you teach it the same way to both kids?

 

The answer to that is the same for both wrestlers and referees. Each of us are individuals and unfortunately, no matter how much you teach and coach a technique or idea, we may not all apply it the same way. This is a fact that has been a part of wrestling at all levels from the beginning. This issue doesn't only occur in wrestling, it happens in everyday life as well. Some doctors are better than others, some chefs are better than others, some truck drivers are better than others, etc

 

Could we do a better job of calling stalling? Yes, I think we probably could. Are we the single factor in holding back wrestling in Indiana? I don't think we are and that is what I took offense to from the beginning of this topic.

 

Two additional points and then I will move on. First, in my response here it is not my intent to be confrontational. I want to explain my side of this and address Warsaw's concerns. Secondly, these are my opinions and other referees may or may not share those opinions. Here's that consistency thing again. LOL

 

Tom Clark

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Two additional points and then I will move on. First, in my response here it is not my intent to be confrontational. I want to explain my side of this and address Warsaw's concerns. Secondly, these are my opinions and other referees may or may not share those opinions. Here's that consistency thing again. LOL

Thanks for the detailed information and for taking time to help some of us understand the other side.  I do believe many of us have officiated before, I know I have on several occasions (not under a state or license, but at some kids tournaments and middle school).   Officiating is not easy! 

 

I know for me the big change on how I looked at things when it became more difficult to challenge or talk about calls.  It was so bad at East Chicago that they even warned the Head Coaches to not take things to the table, because if the head guy was called down there was not going to be a positive outcome (not exact wording, but you get the point).  Seriously, is this where we are at? 

 

I watched a group of college kids officiate at Leo this weekend and would say for a young group of kids they did a great job (believe they were mostly from Indiana Tech).  What I am getting at is that it was very "consistent".  In fairness there wasn't a lot of stalling calls, because most kids were younger and on small size mats.  I don't think using the examples: some are better than others or your weakest link high school wrestler is acceptable in my book.  I would not except this excuse from a wrestler, coworker or son/daughter.  

 

I do not believe nor do I think any logical person would ever blame officiating or for that matter any one thing from holding wrestling back in Indiana (except maybe basketball and Joe would say Classing). I know in Ft. Wayne they do a big officials & coaches get together, because we have been invited the last two years (actually hounded, which is pretty cool that they push that hard to get coaches and officials together).  It's nice setup, they answer questions and try closing that gap on coach/official.  Not saying every area has to do that, but it helps.  It would also help, I believe, if some of the more experienced officials would put together a video/resource.  Not for reference to be used in a match, but for a general understanding of some of the more subjective situations in matches for coaches and less experienced officials (not saying the coaches couldn't be less experienced, we usually are). 

 

Once again thanks for your dialog and unlike most of my post this is not to push buttons, but maybe bring some understanding.

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Whoa.  Let's slow down on boycotting freestyle state. This mindset is actually one of the reasons more of our kids aren't nationally ranked and why we aren't a top 5 state. The ISWA is not pushing kids away from getting nationally ranked. It's actually part of our objective.  Where most local coaches, fans and wrestlers are concerned with their school program, the ISWA, as a subsidiary of USAW and fueled in the OLYMPIC spirit, have the ENTIRE state to worry about.  To be fair, I don't think anyone is knowingly pushing kids away. Everyone wants the best for the state in some way, it's just that some people have different opinions on what it takes to be one of the best in the country.

 

I believe more of our kids are NOT nationally ranked because more of our kids do NOT wrestle - or win - where there are more nationally ranked kids. Specifically with our H.S./Cadet/Junior athletes, this means success at high-end tournaments like Fargo, UWW Cadet and Junior World Trials, Flo, Super 32, Walsh, Junior & Cadet Duals, USAW Regionals, etc. Indiana has a few guys that can wrestle with the best guys in the country, but we simply aren't deep enough.  Most of even our best kids are largely unequipped to consistently beat the nation's best and are usually outclassed, if not immediately, as these tournaments get into the later rounds. There are a variety of factors as to why this is so (class system, time, money, population, politics, etc) but I'll get right to it and say one of the biggest reasons we aren't ranked higher as a state is because we don't train in Freestyle and Greco enough. 

 

We primarily focus on Folkstyle because that is what we wrestle in school.  As a H.S. coach, their job is doing the best they can for that school's program.  IF the coach has time, which most usually don't, this essentially means a year-round program, developing a strong feeder system, keeping as many of them together as possible throughout the summer, training, bonding, strengthening that TEAM concept, camps, summer team competitions, etc.  If you want to build a high school dynasty these are some of the things that must be addressed in some capacity. This is very difficult to do for internal and external reasons. Tonte, Schoettle, Harper, Snyder, Schaeffer, Pendowski, etc. all are perfect examples of coaches who have been fortunate to get some things clicking and build great high school programs using these methods. Many of them will also tell you how vital Freestyle and Greco are as they push their kids to train in these styles as much as possible.  Yes, they have great programs and state ranked guys, but I'm 99% certain that every one of their NATIONALLY RANKED athletes wrestle Freestyle.

 

Unfortunately for the bulk of Indiana athletes versus the nation's best, because our primary focus is Folkstyle, this hampers our wrestler's growth as more nationally ranked kids wrestle Freestyle and Greco than not.  Can you become nationally ranked by being solely focused on Folkstyle?  Sure. I trained Nathan Boston for a few years, who already had some national success, but he stayed away from the international styles until I basically had to make him do it. Drew Hughes, Colton Cummings, and Blake Rypel don't really mess around with it as much as I'd like either - and that's ok. I know them all and have love for them all.  They rep Indiana so I rep them. Mason Parrish doesn't as well...yet. :) But I would also argue, and they've heard it directly from me and other credible sources, that they would be ranked even higher, and more dominant, if they did wrestle these styles as much as possible.

 

Not only do you have a higher chance of being nationally ranked with success in the international styles but more, and better, colleges will be recruiting you with this success. There are only a few Folkstyle tournaments after Folkstyle state out there that effect the national rankings.  Intermat and Flo don't even put that much stock into USAW Folkstyle Nationals. Aside from H.S. state, Flo, and maybe one or two more folkstyle events in the summer, the top, top, top college coaches and programs don't put that much stock in them either - because they prefer the well-rounded wrestlers that Freestyle and Greco PRODUCE.  

 

These folkstyle tournaments are alive, both locally and nationally, because the masses have to be fed - but the masses of our kids arent nationally ranked. There are absolutely a few nationally ranked guys at Disney Duals and other national folkstyle tournaments, and the top collegiate programs like Penn State, Oklahoma State, Iowa, Minnesota, etc. just might send a letter to you if you win USAW Folkstyle Nationals.  On the other hand, you can actually go up and talk to John Smith, Brands, Sanderson, etc. personally because you'll SEE them at Fargo. 

 

Why Fargo? Because when you look at the majority of nationally ranked wrestlers - THEY WRESTLE FREESTYLE.  Yes, there are exceptions, but I am talking about the majority.  Plenty percentages have been thrown around so I am sure someone can look at Flo's Top Sophomore list and see the percentage of these guys who wrestle in the international styles. http://www.flowrestling.org/ranking/607-steveson-snags-top-sophomore-spot/2016-02-19/sophomore. Guess who is at the top of that list? Gable Steveson, and yes he is an avid freestyle and greco wrestler.  Look at Intermat's top 100 seniors and you'll see the same.  Are there guys on there who don't wrestle Folkstyle?  Sure.  But not the one's at the top.

 

How about this: Fans LOVED the CJ Red vs. Nick Lee match.   LOVED IT!  Highlight of the night!!!  Standing ovation before it even started! Let's make it the last match. Two of Indiana's absolute best, aaaaaaaaaaaand they train and wrestle avidly in the international styles.  Why?  It's not BECAUSE they are great, it's because they want to BE great. It helps them do just that and they'll tell you the same.  But most fans don't know this.  They see them from the stands, they get a quick picture if they're lucky, maybe even have a brief chat, rave about them online, but they only see the results and not the process. The process is about MAXIMIZING YOUR POTENTIAL. Will you get better training Folkstyle year-round?  Absolutely.  Will you almost double that progress by wrestling Freestyle and Greco? Yes you will.  Crunch those numbers and see for yourself.  Jordan Burroughs will tell you. So will Kyle Dake, David Taylor, Tony Ramos, Logan Stieber, Angel Escobedo, Jason AND Alex Tsirtsis, Andrew Howe, Stevan Micic, and so many others.  Don't take it from me. I know enough to know I don't know anything at all. Take it from them.

 

Deondre Wilson, former 2x undefeated state champ, started wrestling as a freshman. Some called him an athletic phenom.  He wasn't really, but he was programmed mentally and had just enough technique to win in Indiana at the time.  As soon as his freshman season was over, and every year after, we went to as many freestyle and greco tournaments as possible to double his output because we didn't have time to waste and I knew better.  His first summer of wrestling we sent him to Cadet world Team Trials (very funny at the time) knowing he wouldnt win a match - and he understood that perspective too. Our goal was to score just once on someone.  He didn't win a match or course, but he pushed out eventual placer Kyle Norstrem.  This one point was an extra ingredient to a relatively successful high school career knowing now he could "score on the best in the country". 

 

He wrestled freshman Drew Hughes in the finals his Junior year for his first state title and if I remember correctly scored all his takedowns on the edge of the mat, because you have to keep wrestling on the edge. He got that from Freestyle and Greco.  Folkstyle wrestlers know you have to wrestle on the edge, but you aren't penalized for it like you are in the international styles, which creates more of a HABIT of wrestling on the edge.  This is just one small example of many on how the international styles help out your folkstyle wrestling. I believe he ended up ranked around 13th in the country by graduation.

 

Since stalling has been a discussion, another advantage of Freestyle and Greco is they penalize you even more for it, to MAKE you wrestle!  You get hit for stalling in Folkstyle from running away, hanging on, not doing anything, etc.  But most kids know how to squeek by this and so what if we get hit for stalling as we have a couple more times before it costs us. On the other hand, if you get for stalling in F/G you are put on the clock and HAVE to score or you are penalized. You try and hang on to something and you're going to get scored because of how easy it is to score.  Much more mat and body awareness is required for success in F/G, which directly crosses over to even more folkstyle success. The officials, although I of course don't agree with every call, do their best and that's enough for me. Officiating isn't easy. But ultimately it's not the refs fault we do or don't stall.  That's on us.  Freestyle however enforces the HABIT of action.

 

Again, there a countless amount of reasons where we could pin our lack of national success on. I do think classing Indiana wrestling WILL help get more kids wrestling, and I had pride being the only champ at my weight class at the time.  But many of the things that may be holding us back (wrestlebacks, ending the 300 mile rule, classing or not, population, school culture, admin support, etc) may not change any time soon.  We essentially must play the hand we are dealt like it's the hand we want.  It's like our expectations are just too low sometimes.  We operate more on hope, and hope is not an effective strategy.  Our kids won't be Olympic Champs anyway? Why not? Well they definitely aren't off to a good start if we are holding them back right out of the gate.  Instead we should be pushing EVERY last one of our athletes in our programs to aim for an Olympic title because it's going to take their best to do it. Every great athlete started their ultimate journey with a belief.  So what if they fail?  Aiming for the stars at least gets you to the moon.  

 

In conclusion, training in Folkstyle year-round is a step in the right direction, and better than doing nothing.  However, if that is all you choose to focus on, you are not maximizing your potential in this sport - plain and simple. You are trying to master the art of wrestling with 1/3 of the tools actually needed to even get close.  This is almost identical to trying to become a state champion but you are only good on your feet and are absolutely terrible on bottom and top.  Can you get close?  Sure?  But chances are you will fall short, and that is exactly where 95 % of Indiana athletes are versus the top athletes in the country.  Please do not call to boycott Indiana's Freestyle State Tournament.  We need to embrace it.  The two tournament qualifier is new and the waiver issue got out of hand last year, but if you want more CJ Red's and Nick Lee's then we individually and collectively need to train in the international styles much, much, much more.

Very good insight!  Thanks for the good read!

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We train freestyle we just don't want to be forced to wrestle in local freestyle tournaments, how is that hard to understand? I promise you that 3 matches in these local tournaments will be less then 2 minutes.  RWA trains freestyle and it is more then enough training to compete and win a USA national freestyle title.  Indiana state is also not required to compete in the central regional, which is the only requirement to wrestle in the national tournament.  So again I say feel free to skip state.  We won't bc we want to wrestle in schoolboy duals, but if teams were hand picked we would definitely just skip this.  I hate being forced to do something.  Don't underestimate the talent in Indiana.  If we want to compete in bigger events opposed to local freestyle tournaments I feel like it should be our decision to do so.

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This is how you should call stalling... watch the last 3 minutes

 

Listen to the fans and you will know why Refs don't call stalling aggressively! LOL 

 

Honestly, my biggest beef is when a kid out wrestles his opponent for 5 mins and in the last min he goes into defense mode and then his opponent starts to initiate some action and all of a sudden the stall calls fly.  That's what happens in this match.  The kid that wrestled the better match did not win and that's a shame.

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@Sig40 -

 

Yes, we train in freestyle.  Just not enough.  Here is the issue: Not enough kids are at the local tournaments because they don't want to wrestle 3 matches. There is not enough competition. I absolutely get it and would struggle with the same thing as a wrestler and parent. It irks me and I'm neither, but as one of Indiana's National Team Coaches who pushes these styles it sucks equally as much if not more. So, this consequently leads to not enough schools offering freestyle tournaments because there aren't enough participants. They essentially lose money on freestyle tournaments.  Now, you don't have enough participants OR tournaments. It's a catch 22.  

 

The reason why the 2 match requirement is such an inconvenience for wrestling families is because it conflicts with bigger, oftentimes national folkstyle, events and there aren't too many other local freestyle tournaments or weekends to choose from. That's a problem.  Right now, in Indiana, our F/G season is essentially 2 months long, but with USAW Folkstyle Nationals, it's basically 1 month. 1 MONTH!!!!  That is a shame, and it's unacceptable IF we want to consistently beat the top 5% in the country.  12 months out of the year and we only REALLY get after these styles for one month but expect to be in the top 5%?  Not possible where Indiana is right now.  Oklahoma, Illinois, etc etc.  The states that focus on Freestyle and Greco do so almost immediately.  Colorado is perfect example.  Those kids have gotten better and better over the years because they made some tough decisions to focus on F/G and it's changing the culture and their results.  Arizona is another state in that same boat.

 

With all due respect to RWA, Tsirtsis, Hawkins, etc. their last national cadet or junior freestyle champ was maybe Micic?  i could be wrong but he focuses on what?  Ask Stevan if he thinks training in freestyle helps him more or going to a folkstyle tournament.  Can RWA offer the training needed to win a title?  Yes, and it's been proven on multiple occasions.  What then do we do for the rest of the state?.  RWA helps the RWA kids, but again the ISWA has to focus on the entire state.  

 

Requiring a 2 tournament qualifier helps schools have confidence in hosting more freestyle tournaments and raise funds, it helps the wrestlers have more competition, etc.  Is it an invonvenience because one doesn't like being MADE to do something, and I get it. I really do.  Kids and coaches don't necessarily like certifying for a weight, or taking the skin fold test to determine what weight they can or cannot go, knowing they could cut the weight, but it's done for the safety of the kids.  When they first started doing that it was a MASSIVE inconvenience, especially for older coaches used to running their program a certain way.  But times change, along with priorities, more and more people are getting used to it and it now comes with the territory.  That is exactly the stage we are in as a state in regards to F/G. 

 

Lastly, trust I am not underestimating the talent in Indiana.   Indiana has a lot of talent....but talent has nothing to do with. I am there first hand, mat side, seeing us get whooped consistently, seeing kids fall short of their hopes, not because they didnt wrestle tough, but because they were outclassed.  And understand I am talking about Indiana vs. the top 5% in the country, not just national competition.  There is talent in Maine but talent alone doesnt get you very far.  One must build on that talent.  I am talented at playing chess but if I am missing pieces then there is only so much I can do, regardless of how good I am.

 

I respect your thoughts and believe I understand what you are trying to say:  you don't like being made to do something it sounds like is the bottom line.  But what you are also proposing is to go wrestle folkstyle tournaments nationally, and then your FIRST freestyle tournament is the Schoolboy Duals against national competition - and expect perform at your maximum level?  I don't believe that is the best formula for national success again the BEST.  Could your wrestler go undefeated at Schoolboys? Absolutely.  But to expect that same success using your proposed formula against the top Cadets and Juniors is false.  Still, like you said, it is absolutely your decision and that's fair.  But when said wrestler maxes out that potential and is having trouble against the best Cadet and Juniors in the country, when it REALLY counts, understand this is when their lack of training in the international styles shows it's face.  

 

I hope I am not coming across brash or pushy, and I do not intend in anyway to belittle anyone or anything.  I am glad we are having this discussion and Indiana wrestling is reading this.  This discourse is what helps us all.  Knowing is half the battle (in my G.I.Joe voice).  Again, I am not referring to Indiana having national success, I am referring to Indiana having success against the top 5% in the country - consistently.  

Edited by Coach Hull
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Coach Hull you bring up some valid points.  I think some of the issue for some of us still, is the waver system and how everything went down last year.  I made this same statement last year......It is hard to take a program or group of kids that were used to not having to qualify and making them out of the blue! Yes, I know it was on the ISWA website, which most of us must not visit enough because there were a lot of people that didn't know about it. After months of back and forth nothing changed, than BAM wavers everywhere! 

 

You are in a tough spot, some of which you put yourself into.  I love freestyle and wish it was the only thing done after ISHAA State, but it is not.  There are several Folkstyle tournaments out there over the summer that will give Indiana kids chances to wrestle with the nations best.  Wrestling great competition makes you better, I don't think this is arguable. So, how do I tell my better kids to have faith with your proposal.  Tell them wrestling kids that they can beat in 10-15 seconds in 3 matches is better for the sport down the road.  But the trade off is that they have to waste their wrestling chances at these Folkstyle tournaments that will improve them.

 

I went through the Freestyle State logs from 2014 - 2015. The main thing I saw between the 2 years was that there were 12-15 upper place winners out of cadet that didn't come back in 2015.  Not a great look at improving the sport, if you are having to replace or rebuild each year.  I still think there could have been more done last year to save things, like excluding/wavering placers from the year before.  But true to form ISWA is hard fast in making and proving points over compromise.

 

I hope I didn't come across as to brash or pushy, just stating facts as they have gone down over the last few years.

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Yes, sir, I completely understand about the bad taste from last year.  It was unfortunate the situation got out of hand as much as it did.  It was the first year the 2 requirement was implemented and was a tough transition for some, but believe it or not the decision was made in fact TO compromise.  Right or wrong, at the last minute because of the amount of last minute complaints, difficulties, reasons, valid or invalid, issues, etc.resulting from the requirements, the ISWA gave the Clubs power to grant waivers at their discretion. If the ISWA were trying to prove some type of point, they wouldn't have granted anyone access. It's not like the ISWA held their hand and at the last minute hustled everyone, which I think some people choose to believe.  

 

The waiver decision was genuinely to help those struggling families that needed some assistance.  Like if one's IPL was due for disconnection. Their car broke down, which cost them work, which put them behind, so they call in to ask IPL for an extension and it's granted because IPL knows not having power is not cool.  Rather than just allowing anyone and everyone to get in to the tournament if they filled out the waiver form, some accountability was called for which is why the Clubs had the power.  Our academy granted a waiver too, to a kid who had been injured all summer who just got cleared to wrestle the week before state.  He hadn't trained much but still was hungry for the opportunity, we all discussed the implications, and between him, myself, and the parents agreed  to let him to compete.

 

Still, trust and believe there was a team of 6-7 very dedicated ladies volunteering and working diligently to verify the 2 requirements on-site.  I had the opportunity to stand over their shoulders for a minute and looked at the process and I felt for them.  But, the ISWA hierarchy, whether some believe it or not, are genuinely very, very good people who VOLUNTEER their lives, not just time, to help the state of Indiana wrestling.  They aren't perfect and there is always things that can be done better, which is why they drive sometimes hours to meet once a month and discuss whats right, wrong, what needs to be fixed, etc, drive hours back, then turn around and drive hours to volunteer setting up, breaking down and running wrestling tournaments statewide, hearing the pros and cons of what they are doing, and still strive to push forward because of their love for the sport and our Indiana athletes.

 

On a side note, I don't hide behind the 2 requirement being posted on the ISWA website the night before either, as not everyone goes to the site and I understand.  I'm on the board and I barely go there for certain things, so I get the frustration.  Again, because they strive to get better, there are some new things being rolled out here soon to enhance the ISWA's online presence and better communicate with the Indiana wrestling community.

 

Now, as a coach, what I tell our kids is to look at the results.  Freestyle and Greco  make you a better wrestler so if there is an opportunity to wrestle in freestyle and greco, and there arent many - yet - then that is simply what we do.  Those 3 quick matches are beneficial because it is more mat time and experience in those styles.  Not everyone is fortunate to be that good in these styles, which is why they need these opportunities.  If they aren't that good in these styles, which is the case for the majority, then the confidence that comes with being fortunate enough to quickly disperse of 3 opponents, good or bad, goes a long way.  Winning is fun and having fun encourages more, and if the kid gets over-confident then that will also take care of itself when they get to the Cadet and Junior nationals.  Because there aren't many yet, any and every opportunity must be taken advantage of.

 

Personally, I MAKE our kids, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of our kids, train and wrestle in the international styles - IF they truly want to be great.  The kids that usually train with us are there because they do want to get better, meaning they are a little more dedicated than the average kid, so I may have an easier time influencing them than other programs.  However, this doesnt mean that I don't have to sell it, push it, influence it, propose it, stress it, and enforce it, not just with the wrestler themselves but also with mom and dad.  There is resistance and hesitancy, but again IF they truly want to get better and become good or great in this sport, they must cross this bridge and I let them know that right up front.

 

Although our h.s. room is one of the toughest in the state, we opened our little kids program two years ago to start the development process earlier.  The program is still in it's experimental stage but their progress, being sold the Olympic Dream (and I wasn't an Olympian either), has them having a lot of fun and getting better every day.  Even our little kids are raising their expectations by buying in and they don't even truly know it yet. Lol.  But it's already paying off big dividends for some and we haven't even scratched the surface.  Again, it's in the experimental stage, but it's tough trying to teach most of Indiana's best h.s. kids basic freestyle and greco fundamentals a week before Fargo and expect them to perform at a high level.  It's too late.  These issues must be addressed at a younger age.

 

The only way to address these issues it to train and compete in the style these issues are exposed in as much as possible. RTCs, which train in the international styles, are for Schoolboy and up, so that unfortunately leaves out opportunities for the little ones to train in the Olympic styles. This doesn't help them out any for this cause, and so it's easier to continue growing by wrestling in national folkstyle events. I get it.  I don't necessarily like this set-up of RTCs only being open to Schoolboy and up, but those are my rules I have to follow.  Still, it's ultimately up to the youth club or elementary school coach to introduce and sell it on their end.  My hope is we start seeing more Beginner Freestyle and Greco tournaments for our kids, similar to Beginner Folkstyle events, to continue getting this ball rolling.

 

I agree it hurts our improvement when/if some of our best Cadets don't wrestle the following year at state, much like when our best kids skip a local freestyle tournament for a national folkstyle tournament. However, the absence of these 12-15 placers may not simply be because they are boycotting it.  I know for a fact that Prom has kept some of our best Juniors out.  But yes, it does affect the smaller and larger picture, and yes we do in a sense have to continue rebuilding because each wave of kids all are missing basic fundamentals to win Fargo. Getting them more involved and experienced at a younger age is the solution.  Much like trying to build a dynasty - the feeder system must be strengthened.

 

To change Indiana's culture, there must be some tough decisions made.  As the RTC Director, enforcing the international style was a tough (but kind of easy) call.  Some coaches were elated, some were very hesitant, and a few couldn't commit to it because it didn't fit with their school program's agenda.  I COMPLETELY understood why.  But we had to make the move as a state, not for results today but for Indiana's success tomorrow, next year, in 5 years, 10 years.  Coaches, parents, and athletes must make a tough decision to specialize in wrestling, or go to this tournament or that tournament, or focus in the international styles or not, or where to train, etc.  Sometimes it's trial and error, but either way life keeps going and we all must continue to strive forward, right or wrong, hit or miss. This culture shift starts with each one of us, but yes it can be a tough decision and transition.  These discussions help so, no, you are good.  Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Coach Hull
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I respect your thoughts and believe I understand what you are trying to say:  you don't like being made to do something it sounds like is the bottom line.  But what you are also proposing is to go wrestle folkstyle tournaments nationally, and then your FIRST freestyle tournament is the Schoolboy Duals against national competition - and expect perform at your maximum level?  I don't believe that is the best formula for national success again the BEST.  Could your wrestler go undefeated at Schoolboys? Absolutely.  But to expect that same success using your proposed formula against the top Cadets and Juniors is false.  Still, like you said, it is absolutely your decision and that's fair.  But when said wrestler maxes out that potential and is having trouble against the best Cadet and Juniors in the country, when it REALLY counts, understand this is when their lack of training in the international styles shows it's face.  

 

Coach Hull, you make a lot of good points but I still fail to understand how the local tournaments are going to improve my wrestler.  We train freestyle 3 to 4 days a week after folkstyle state, so we aren't going into state and schoolboy duals just winging it.  I also understand that by forcing wrestlers to do these tournaments there may be a few competitive matches at the local tournaments, but we would be crossing our fingers for that to happen opposed to knowing for sure that we will get good matches at FloNationals or the other national duals. Only thing I am asking is for certain events to count toward the 2 tournament rule.(Heartland duals, middle school duals, and USA Nationals)  Thanks for your reply and insight on the whole situation.  I am not as upset about the whole situation after reading your posts.

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