MD92 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Agreed, it is one aspect of class wrestling. But it seems to be the most important for you since you continually bring up how more kids will be recruited, etc. Why do you assume that more kids will have a good experience if we go to class wrestling? I'd wager that the kids wrestling now in our single class are having a great experience. If they weren't, they wouldn't be in this sport. I firmly believe that wrestling is a love it or hate it sport. Not a lot of in between. If a kid isn't have a good time, he won't stay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I am not judging how many kids want to wrestling in college based off of those numbers alone. What I was pointing out was that if there were so many kids wanting to wrestle in college that the numbers might be higher at these tournaments, wouldn't you agree with that sentiment? The kids that are wanting to wrestle in college are...and they don't go to worthless spring tournaments. What you are failing to read is that there are kids on the fence that give it up due to lack of success or college contact. When the reality is they could wrestle in college. Agreed, it is one aspect of class wrestling. But it seems to be the most important for you since you continually bring up how more kids will be recruited, etc. Why do you assume that more kids will have a good experience if we go to class wrestling? I'd wager that the kids wrestling now in our single class are having a great experience. If they weren't, they wouldn't be in this sport. I firmly believe that wrestling is a love it or hate it sport. Not a lot of in between. If a kid isn't have a good time, he won't stay with it. I'm not the one that is bringing it up. The same way MD football players have had good experiences on the gridiron where they would not have had the same level of success in a single class football tournament. If more kids were having good experiences they wouldn't leave the sport the way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 MD was pointing out that many kids don't really want to or plan on wrestling after high school. I was adding to his point by pointing out the fact that there is not a lot of participation at local tournaments at the university and senior levels, even though all you have to do is sign-up and show-up. I agree with his statement that after high school a lot of kids are just done with wrestling as a competitor. Beer Wrestling League...the BWL! Who's in? Fabio can throw the belt up for weekly challenges. The potential matchups and angles could rival the WWE. DaRegion vs #County/City/PainTrain in a tag team battle royale. AllYourBase vs Y2 in a Family SmackDown...you don't know my family! ClownBaby can be the stylin' and profiln' manager wheelin' to the ring in the Audi. The possibilities are endless. We could then grow the Senior divisions and bring all the little kiddies to expose them to the sport and grow it that way too! MD92 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Your football to wrestling comparison is tired. Are you saying that kids are not having good experiences with wrestling under the current system? The only way kids will have good experiences with wrestling is if there are classes and they get to go to state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah, seriously, Trine and Manchester would love to have 30+ more kids on their roster? I can solve that one pretty easily. Trine and Manchester are both approximately 45 minutes from the Fort Wayne coliseum Both are about 1 hr 20 minutes from Mishawaka high school Send a representative (Assistant to the Regional Manager) to the Fort Wayne semistate and to the Al Smith tournament. Talk, hand out flyers, pass out t-shirts, whatever -- to every single underclassman there. Also catch some great wrestling, and promote how great your university is. The odds of a person from a relatively local school attending your small university would be (I think) FAR greater than the odds of landing a "small school state qualifier" from southwestern Indiana. frigginhurts and UncleJimmy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah, seriously, Trine and Manchester would love to have 30+ more kids on their roster? I can solve that one pretty easily. Trine and Manchester are both approximately 45 minutes from the Fort Wayne coliseum Both are about 1 hr 20 minutes from Mishawaka high school Send a representative (Assistant to the Regional Manager) to the Fort Wayne semistate and to the Al Smith tournament. Talk, hand out flyers, pass out t-shirts, whatever -- to every single underclassman there. Also catch some great wrestling, and promote how great your university is. The odds of a person from a relatively local school attending your small university would be (I think) FAR greater than the odds of landing a "small school state qualifier" from southwestern Indiana. Wow, didn't realize recruiting was that easy. I surely wish more coaches would get recruiting like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I would think that D3 schools would do whatever it takes to get kids in the door, let alone in the wrestling room. Maybe if the colleges marketed themselves better it would help. You have to agree with that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Wow, didn't realize recruiting was that easy. I surely wish more coaches would get recruiting like that. I tend to agree with Base on this one. They could also send their little form letter to the 226 ticket round non qualifiers and throw that big net out there hoping to get a couple fish. Granted they aren't all seniors but if we want little Johnny to feel success by by being a 1A SQ he might also have that same feeling getting a letter as a Jr/Soph ticket rounder. If the recruiting budget is limited, then "easy" would seem to be the way to go and easy doesn't mean bad or ineffective! If all these IN colleges want 20 more wrestlers to pay to go to their school, they aren't going to entice them by athletic grant in aid so making them feel wanted seems to be the way to go? So driving to a high level tourney and semistate in their little area doesn't seem out of the realm of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Seems like a lot of these points belong on a message board for recruiting suggestions for small-school college coaches. Classing is to help from our end, not theirs. They can focus on what "they" can do. We should focus on what "we" can do. And we can class the individual tournament to help our wrestlers garner exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I tend to agree with Base on this one. They could also send their little form letter to the 226 ticket round non qualifiers and throw that big net out there hoping to get a couple fish. Granted they aren't all seniors but if we want little Johnny to feel success by by being a 1A SQ he might also have that same feeling getting a letter as a Jr/Soph ticket rounder. If the recruiting budget is limited, then "easy" would seem to be the way to go and easy doesn't mean bad or ineffective! If all these IN colleges want 20 more wrestlers to pay to go to their school, they aren't going to entice them by athletic grant in aid so making them feel wanted seems to be the way to go? So driving to a high level tourney and semistate in their little area doesn't seem out of the realm of reason. So now we have deflected the discussion to how college coaches in this state suck at recruiting. Very interesting...and do you know these guys aren't doing this? Just curious as I see a lot of them at our events...maybe it's too look at me, but whatever. Galagore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I would think that D3 schools would do whatever it takes to get kids in the door, let alone in the wrestling room. Maybe if the colleges marketed themselves better it would help. You have to agree with that, right? Look at the Wabash college roster. They have 50+ kids on it. That's a lot of kids for a college wrestling room. So I would say they're doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Maybe some will get a little scholarship money, but in the end there are other benefits. When kids are shown attention for wrestling earlier their wheels will start churning for the college process earlier. This means they aren't just looking at the local IU or PU extension or main campus. These kids are looking at other schools such as the smaller more expensive schools. If the kid knows as a sophomore or junior that Indianapolis is interested they will start the process of seeing how much it is and such. That includes maybe raising a GPA or test score knowing that if it's higher they get more financial money. They'll start looking at scholarships for people with Italian names and a balding father. If they find out in late February or early March of their senior year much of this is too late. On top of that Indy has more scholarship money for the class of 2017 right now than 2016, so if you get attention for 2017 you're way more likely to get athletic money. Wow, didn't realize recruiting was that easy. I surely wish more coaches would get recruiting like that. Not trying to be offensive here, but I can't understand why you are simply dismissing my thoughts on this. You said in an earlier post that if kids are shown attention earlier, then they may think about college wrestling more, and get better grades/testing/etc. I'm not even disagreeing with you here -- I'm saying that if that is a legitimate outcome, then why not show this "earlier attention" to wrestlers at events that are relatively local to your university. The odds of getting a local kid to "walk on" (because you did say they would love to increase their numbers, correct??) are far greater than recruiting a kid from 6 hours away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Not trying to be offensive here, but I can't understand why you are simply dismissing my thoughts on this. You said in an earlier post that if kids are shown attention earlier, then they may think about college wrestling more, and get better grades/testing/etc. I'm not even disagreeing with you here -- I'm saying that if that is a legitimate outcome, then why not show this "earlier attention" to wrestlers at events that are relatively local to your university. The odds of getting a local kid to "walk on" (because you did say they would love to increase their numbers, correct??) are far greater than recruiting a kid from 6 hours away. How do you know what extent local college coaches are going through for recruiting? Do you know their budget, time, manpower, recruiting rules, etc? Things like getting addresses isn't easy, if you send a letter to their high school hopefully they get it...maybe they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I have a legitimate question for class fans. Do any of you think that we have a special finals, and that there is a positibility that classing could have a negative effect on Indiana Wrestling in that regaurd? I mean we have kids who are national placers who bring up how our tournament is the "best event" in post match interviews, it's obvious that the event is pretty awesome, aren't we risking loosing that in classing it? That is what has happened to Indiana Basketball, it's not like the state is any better or worse than what it was, it didn't add numbers, or make big school or small school kids better, it just made people care less and it lost a lot of the "buzz" that it used to have, I think that would be a negative from classing. In the end I don't buy that numbers would increase all that much at small schools because of it, but I do think that it would have a negative impact on the experience of our qulaifiers. I know you can't measure it, but I think it's something that should be taken into account. frigginhurts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 How do you know what extent local college coaches are going through for recruiting? Do you know their budget, time, manpower, recruiting rules, etc? Things like getting addresses isn't easy, if you send a letter to their high school hopefully they get it...maybe they don't. I don't know what extent local college coaches are going through. I also don't know their budget, time, manpower or recruiting rules. I am suggesting that since your theory is that making early contact with wrestlers may lead to said wrestlers being interested in going to college and finding out more about scholarships and admission, AND since colleges would like to expand their net beyond just our current state tournament, AND that some smaller universities in Indiana would like to expand the number of walkons so their team is larger -- that perhaps they could find someone on their staff or associated with their staff to attend a more local venue where they will see some high quality wrestling and can make "early contact" with a relatively local set of wrestlers (and their coaches) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I don't know what extent local college coaches are going through. I also don't know their budget, time, manpower or recruiting rules. I am suggesting that since your theory is that making early contact with wrestlers may lead to said wrestlers being interested in going to college and finding out more about scholarships and admission, AND since colleges would like to expand their net beyond just our current state tournament, AND that some smaller universities in Indiana would like to expand the number of walkons so their team is larger -- that perhaps they could find someone on their staff or associated with their staff to attend a more local venue where they will see some high quality wrestling and can make "early contact" with a relatively local set of wrestlers (and their coaches) I see guys from Trine, Indiana Tech, and Manchester, even Wabash(for obvious reasons) at local events all the time around here. On top of that I think almost all the small schools were at the IHPO this past fall. These guys are hitting the recruiting trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I am not judging how many kids want to wrestling in college based off of those numbers alone. What I was pointing out was that if there were so many kids wanting to wrestle in college that the numbers might be higher at these tournaments, wouldn't you agree with that sentiment? You are not following the argument if this is what you think is being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 That is what has happened to Indiana Basketball, it's not like the state is any better or worse than what it was, it didn't add numbers, or make big school or small school kids better, it just made people care less and it lost a lot of the "buzz" that it used to have, I think that would be a negative from classing. In the end I don't buy that numbers would increase all that much at small schools because of it, but I do think that it would have a negative impact on the experience of our qulaifiers. I know you can't measure it, but I think it's something that should be taken into account. A strawman argument that is easily countered. I have read articles that have said the state is much deeper in talent and produces more D1 talent since class basketball has started. That would be a strong argument that kids have gotten better. Attendance was going down prior to classing so the people caring less argument holds no water. Basketball is a VERY big deal at schools like Westview, Triton, Oregon Davis and Argos because of class basketball. I would argue that our state finals would be even better and more special because there would be more fans, from more schools. A parade of champions in front of 14,000 would be much better than 8 thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 if college coaches are recruiting only by looking at state finals then they are LAZY and you aren't going to convince me otherwise. luckily - they aren't doing this. I know for a fact that at they send out letters and emails to several schools in this area asking if anyone is talented enough and interested in wrestling. funny how baseball coaches can find talent and recruit kids without any individual championships..wanna know why? because they WORK at it. i'll say it again. If wrestler A beats wrestler B 3 times in a season but in a class system wrestler A loses in large class semi state and wrestler B is a state placer in small class then you're telling me that wrestler B will have a better opportunity to wrestle in college. this might be the funniest thing ever. it doesn't say much for the sport of college wrestling. i will end by saying anyone that wants to wrestle in college will be given a look. sometimes the kids and h.s. coaches might have to put in a little effort too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 if college coaches are recruiting only by looking at state finals then they are LAZY and you aren't going to convince me otherwise. luckily - they aren't doing this. I know for a fact that at they send out letters and emails to several schools in this area asking if anyone is talented enough and interested in wrestling. funny how baseball coaches can find talent and recruit kids without any individual championships..wanna know why? because they WORK at it. i'll say it again. If wrestler A beats wrestler B 3 times in a season but in a class system wrestler A loses in large class semi state and wrestler B is a state placer in small class then you're telling me that wrestler B will have a better opportunity to wrestle in college. this might be the funniest thing ever. it doesn't say much for the sport of college wrestling. i will end by saying anyone that wants to wrestle in college will be given a look. sometimes the kids and h.s. coaches might have to put in a little effort too. Again we are beating this horse to death, but I'll say this. State placement is a start for college coaches especially if they are looking out of state. I'm sure our Indiana schools know about the hardluck kids who get rough semi-state draws and beat some of the top guys during the season. I guarantee most the college coaches in Indiana knew of guys like Timberman this year and knew he was a legit wrestler. However, out of state coaches likely had no clue about him. If a random college coach gets 10 recruiting profiles he'll probably going to look at the kids that have state credentials over ones that don't. That's the simple truth when coaches aren't 100% familiar with an area or state. If I'm recruiting Ohio, I'm looking at their qualifiers and placers, i probably won't have the tools to find out of an almost state qualifier or qualifier that went 0-2 at state beat a handful of placers. frigginhurts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Again we are beating this horse to death, but I'll say this. State placement is a start for college coaches especially if they are looking out of state. I'm sure our Indiana schools know about the hardluck kids who get rough semi-state draws and beat some of the top guys during the season. I guarantee most the college coaches in Indiana knew of guys like Timberman this year and knew he was a legit wrestler. However, out of state coaches likely had no clue about him. If a random college coach gets 10 recruiting profiles he'll probably going to look at the kids that have state credentials over ones that don't. That's the simple truth when coaches aren't 100% familiar with an area or state. If I'm recruiting Ohio, I'm looking at their qualifiers and placers, i probably won't have the tools to find out of an almost state qualifier or qualifier that went 0-2 at state beat a handful of placers. If you are referring to class wrestling discussions, then I couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 If you are referring to class wrestling discussions, then I couldn't agree more! I'm talking about the potential increase in college recruiting as a benefit of classed wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I'm talking about the potential increase in college recruiting as a benefit of classed wrestling. imo, classing makes it more confusing to figure out how good a wrestler really is... sure he just won a state championship but he never wrestled Homer nor Bart, so just how good is he ? its been said before by others and I agree that colleges notice most wrestlers in the off season tournaments a lot more and don't see classing changing that. sudden death 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Its semantics to a college coach if he is looking at a resume and wrestler A goes attends and wins a few matches but doesn't place at national tournaments but was a 3x SS qualifier in Indiana as a senior and wrestler B has a similar track record at national tournies but is a 2x Div. 3 State placer in OH the state placer will get the nod from most college coaches* in who they would want. *The Indiana schools might have a different view on this since they are ingrained in the minutiae of the system we have and it is easier to send coaches to see some of these local wrestlers. Much like an OH coach would get that a Div 1 District qualifier might be a better wrestler than the D2 6th place finisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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