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Indiana Forfeit Data 2016


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This is usually pretty telling of the "state of wrestling" here in Indiana. So here it is!   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bt2uxpHPNLmdWOknWd_9So1K68Z6yYRbYCz69CcjhiU/edit?usp=sharing  

What are some possible solutions that could help us to have less forfeits?  We seem to do a real nice job pointing out problems, but don’t do as well with finding solutions. Here are a few possible wa

I think that football coaches could be a huge factor in remedying this whole situation. It happened at our school, it's all football all the time and to be fair most sports seem to follow that trend.

And you still don't believe class wrestling will help....

I personally think the one class system is partially responsible for some of the lower participation.   Is there something else going on, like some of the subjects Busco wrestling mentioned?   Are other states seeing lower participation levels?     Anybody have data on forfeit rates in some of the infamous "Classed wrestling states" to compare?

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They already keep raising the lowest class, so I don't see any reason to keep raising it higher and putting the smaller kids at an even bigger disadvantage. The biggest thing that hurt us was taking a middle weight class away and adding another one to the bigger guys. There are many more kids having to wrestle JV in the middle weights because a weight class was taken away, and now a lot more forfeits in the bigger classes since they added one.

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They already keep raising the lowest class, so I don't see any reason to keep raising it higher and putting the smaller kids at an even bigger disadvantage. The biggest thing that hurt us was taking a middle weight class away and adding another one to the bigger guys. There are many more kids having to wrestle JV in the middle weights because a weight class was taken away, and now a lot more forfeits in the bigger classes since they added one.

The weight class change is not to blame

Comparing weights from 2011 and 2016 there is a significant change in just comparable weights.  All the weights are up, most by 10-20 forfeits in just five years. The only weights that aren't 10+ difference are: 130/132 with 9 and 138/135 or 140 with 5. 

 

I don't like this sign at all as jumping from just under two forfeits per team to 2.5 is not good. On top of that we have "lost" about 4 programs also.

You know my stance on classed wrestling and you seem to be the numbers guy!!

The "work harder" method has yet to catch on at small schools then. Maybe some motivational speeches by people that take kids out of small schools and put them in big ones will help.

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If I read that right it says they had 1850 ish FF's, indiana had around 850 ish FF's. We are 1/2 the size of Ohio. Looks like class wrestling is hurting them.

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Here is their class breakdown by school size
Division Enrollment Schools
I 351 and more 164
II 194-350 166
III 193 and less 167
Total Teams 497
Ohio Data per school
  Forfeits Schools Average
D1   2130    179   2.10
D2   2280    203   2.77
D3   1912    201   4.49

The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-.
Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizes
Size For  #Schools Avg
D1     202   152   1.33

D2    372   106   3.51
D3   286     50   5.72
 
As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do.

 

From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana.

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Here is their class breakdown by school size

Division Enrollment Schools

I 351 and more 164

II 194-350 166

III 193 and less 167

Total Teams 497

Ohio Data per school

  Forfeits Schools Average

D1   2130    179   2.10

D2   2280    203   2.77

D3   1912    201   4.49

 

The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-.

Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizes

Size For  #Schools Avg

D1     202   152   1.33

D2    372   106   3.51

D3   286     50   5.72

 

As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do.

 

From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana.

Ohio has more smaller schools and a higher ration of them,  and its easily proven that smaller schools are going to have much lower participation rates.

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Well ya, that would have been the 1/2 the size that I was referring to! 1850/2=925...this is worse than 850.

 

 

Here is their class breakdown by school size

Division Enrollment Schools

I 351 and more 164

II 194-350 166

III 193 and less 167

Total Teams 497

Ohio Data per school

  Forfeits Schools Average

D1   2130    179   2.10

D2   2280    203   2.77

D3   1912    201   4.49

 

The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-.

Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizes

Size For  #Schools Avg

D1     202   152   1.33

D2    372   106   3.51

D3   286     50   5.72

 

As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do.

 

From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana.

 

Seems like you ignored Y2's latest post?

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I just pulled some data from my home state of Kansas and put it into the same format..   Yea,  another of the beleaguered class wrestling states.  This is based on the participation of the past year  2015 state tournament series.   They have four classes but I combined the top two to   make it comparable.    Keep in mind, Indiana has a higher ration of large schools vs small schools.    Kanas has a  much less dense population  resulting in much more micro sized schools. 

 

 

 

 

  Size           Forfeits               Schools        Avg           School Size Range

   6A & 5a     122                      64                1.906         2301-760

   4A              249                      63                3.952        765-265

   3,2,1A        569                      89                6.393        <265    

Edited by Wrestling Scholar
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I just pulled some data from my home state of Kansas and put it into the same format..   Yea,  another of the beleaguered class wrestling states.  This is based on the participation of the past year  2015 state tournament series.   They have four classes but I combined the top two to   make it comparable.    Keep in mind, Indiana has a higher ration of large schools vs small schools.    Kanas has a  much less dense population  resulting in much more micro sized schools. 

 

 

 

 

  Size           Forfeits               Schools        Avg           School Size Range

   6A & 5a     122                      64                1.906         2301-760

   4A              249                      63                3.952        765-265

   3,2,1A        569                      89                6.393        <265    

If you put Indiana's schools with those enrollment numbers you get

6-5A- 1.14 forfeits per team

4A- 3.71 forfeits per team

3,2,1A- 7.3 forfeits per team

 

Once again it shows how small schools in a classed state are not as bad off as they are in Indiana.

Your answer for everything Y2. And actually Kansas is higher, so guess not.

My answer is simple logic, compare Kansas schools with 265 students or less to Indiana schools with 265 students or less. 

 

Our big schools are thriving, which is no shocker to anyone but you.

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