chambers Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Shouldn't that read "A triangular meet (double dual) is counted as Two (2) dual meets towards a team’s Four (4) dual meet minimum permitted" ? It should. Whoever typed up the bylaw got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionsFan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 How do we get more kids to the college level when college coaches don't even attend our state finals? There are many semi-state level or state qualifier level kids that could do well in college, but without much contact from colleges they hang up their shoes. I think this goes back to the kids wanting something handed to them instead of working at it. Just because a college coach doesn't see you, then you should just quit? At some point the kids and parents need to help themselves by contacting coaches at colleges they are interested in. I am more than willing to help a kid out who wants to compete in college, but that is a major life event and the decision shouldn't be on me as a coach. That needs to be made by the parents and wrestler. There are ways to compete in college other than being seen by coaches, especially at the division 3 level. Kids just need to be willing to put in the work of contacting coaches, or maybe attending camps at the schools, or going to summer events.There are several ways to get noticed other than just at state. BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Did somebody say Sweater vest? You know the IHSWCA prez and his crew roll sweater vest deep!!! Hell I'm wearing mine at work right now!!! #SweaterVestMafia Edited January 5, 2016 by TripleB Y2CJ41 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think this goes back to the kids wanting something handed to them instead of working at it. Just because a college coach doesn't see you, then you should just quit? At some point the kids and parents need to help themselves by contacting coaches at colleges they are interested in. I am more than willing to help a kid out who wants to compete in college, but that is a major life event and the decision shouldn't be on me as a coach. That needs to be made by the parents and wrestler. There are ways to compete in college other than being seen by coaches, especially at the division 3 level. Kids just need to be willing to put in the work of contacting coaches, or maybe attending camps at the schools, or going to summer events.There are several ways to get noticed other than just at state. That's all great, but how do kids know they are "college material" when no coaches contact them? We can tell all the kids to contact coaches and some will, some won't. It's hard for our small schools to hit all four semi-states, let alone the state finals. Wrestling is a sport with the HIGHEST amount of first generation college students, most of the parents and kids don't know these fine details. On top of that most of our coaches didn't wrestle in college, so they even don't know this. Getting the kids exposure earlier in their careers will help increase the number of college wrestlers. FormerHornet and KarlHungus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpt189 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I don't feel we need to give a weigh in waiver for team state. What's that say to the other 200 plus schools with wrestling every year- "since these 36 teams are better than the rest of you, they deserve an extra tourney." Something I would to see is maybe in March or April each year after the middle school seasons are over, have team state qualifier tourneys. 8th graders through juniors compete, no seniors since this would be for the following season. At least this way you would have actual teams determined on the mat, as opposed to teams being voted in. That eliminates teams declining invitations, since only teams wanting to participate in the qualifier would have the chance at a spot at team state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Did somebody say Sweater vest? You know the IHSWCA prez and his crew roll sweater vest deep!!! Hell I'm wearing mine at work right now!!! #SweaterVestMafia Scarlet and gray with a block O ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Actually is Scarlet w/ Grey/Black pattern, but no, no O! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBreeze Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Individual Class argument... Or as we refer to it, the Everyone Gets A Trophy argument. Sooner or later it will sink in. Wrestling is now, as always an individual sport. A school of 600 frequently kicks the butt of a school of 3000 in our sport. Why? The wrestling culture in said school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't feel we need to give a weigh in waiver for team state. What's that say to the other 200 plus schools with wrestling every year- "since these 36 teams are better than the rest of you, they deserve an extra tourney." That's exactly how the state tournament should be..they were better teams so they get the extra tournament...id like to have a sectional or regional setup but then your using 6 PTs Ohio does the same thing but their athletic association have the waiver and allows teams to enter so those who choose to not participate don't have too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Individual Class argument... Or as we refer to it, the Everyone Gets A Trophy argument. Sooner or later it will sink in. Wrestling is now, as always an individual sport. A school of 600 frequently kicks the butt of a school of 3000 in our sport. Why? The wrestling culture in said school. Again an outlier does not prove anything. The "it ain't broke why fix it" argument is such an archaic principle, let's not evolve let's not try to grow the sport. It's worked great for us so far...all those Indiana national champions and Olympians we have year in and year out why would we want more people participating. We have Reds and Lees but states around us have 5 kids for every Lee. nkraus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Again an outlier does not prove anything. The "it ain't broke why fix it" argument is such an archaic principle, let's not evolve let's not try to grow the sport. It's worked great for us so far...all those Indiana national champions and Olympians we have year in and year out why would we want more people participating. We have Reds and Lees but states around us have 5 kids for every Lee. It doesn't matter how many classes you have if you can't get kids wrestling over the summer or off season. I'm not talking about "little kids" I'm talking about high school kids. I go to a lot of these over the summer events and it is always the same kids! I also think your 5 for every Lee is a little over the top! BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkraus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think the 5 for Every Lee is over the top as well, but I agree that we don't have Olympians, or National Champs year in and year out...the class system would be great for exposure....I don't agree that a school of 600 frequently kicks the butt out of a school of 3000...yes it happens, but also consider the coaching, demographics, and the area in which that school is in...However, I did like the feeling of getting a place out of everybody in the state rather than out of my class...Egos aside we need to figure out what is best to move our kids to the next level...I think two classes would be good...More than two classes would make me feel weird It's common sense...IF I were a high school wrestler and I were able to wrestle with the Brownsburg kids around my weight (for example) day in and day out... I'd be pushed harder every day...Wrestling at a smaller school you may not get that type of push on the regular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) I think the 5 for Every Lee is over the top as well, but I agree that we don't have Olympians, or National Champs year in and year out...the class system would be great for exposure....I don't agree that a school of 600 frequently kicks the butt out of a school of 3000...yes it happens, but also consider the coaching, demographics, and the area in which that school is in...However, I did like the feeling of getting a place out of everybody in the state rather than out of my class...Egos aside we need to figure out what is best to move our kids to the next level...I think two classes would be good...More than two classes would make me feel weird It's common sense...IF I were a high school wrestler and I were able to wrestle with the Brownsburg kids around my weight (for example) day in and day out... I'd be pushed harder every day...Wrestling at a smaller school you may not get that type of push on the regular I think the smaller schools beating bigger schools happen a lot more than people are aware of. I see advantages and disadvantages to classing. I would rather see a larger focus put on youth programs. This is where I feel is the states biggest issue. The caliber of wrestler that comes from the state of Indiana, to me is better than it was 20 years ago. What has changed? We started wrestling kids younger and longer. Now if we can get these groups bigger and more competitive, how would it be in 20 more years? Edited January 8, 2016 by warsawwrestling nkraus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Individual Class argument... Or as we refer to it, the Everyone Gets A Trophy argument. Sooner or later it will sink in. Wrestling is now, as always an individual sport. A school of 600 frequently kicks the butt of a school of 3000 in our sport. Why? The wrestling culture in said school. In football Jimtown frequently beats Northwood, Lafayette Central Catholic frequently beats 3A teams...what's the point? 10% of the wrestlers in the state going to state isn't quite "everyone gets a trophy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Again an outlier does not prove anything. The "it ain't broke why fix it" argument is such an archaic principle, let's not evolve let's not try to grow the sport. It's worked great for us so far...all those Indiana national champions and Olympians we have year in and year out why would we want more people participating. We have Reds and Lees but states around us have 5 kids for every Lee. The state of Iowa must stink at high school wrestling since they didn't have anyone on the Olympic team in 2012. Minnesota, Ohio, and Illinois only had one each and they were on the Greco team. Zero freestyle Olympians from those four powerhouse states. NCAA Champions by HS state: Iowa-1, Minnesota-0, Ohio-2, Illinois-0, Pennsylvania-0 Edited January 8, 2016 by Smooth34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 NCAA Champions by state from 1961-2011 Pennsylvania 73 Iowa 68 Oklahoma 50 Ohio 37 Illinois 30 New Jersey 39 California 36 New York 31 Oregon 21 Michigan 24 Wisconsin 17 Minnesota 11 Virginia 10 Colorado 9 South Dakota 8 Japan 7 Arizona 5 Washington 6 Missouri 4 Florida 3 Indiana 3 Maryland 3 Montana 3 Utah 5 Idaho 4 Kansas 3 All-Americans from 1961-2011 Pennsylvania 504 Iowa 350 Ohio 313 California 240 Illinois 242 Oklahoma 271 New York 211 New Jersey 213 Michigan 182 Minnesota 128 Oregon 125 Wisconsin 82 Colorado 75 Virginia 58 Washington 53 Missouri 44 Florida 45 Indiana 44 Arizona 40 Maryland 36 Kansas 37 Idaho 34 South Dakota 38 Montana 34 Utah 29 Nebraska 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm assuming this is D-1. Odd Stat from someone trying to prove class wrestling works. Why would you only pick D-1 to prove your point. Wouldn't it be the combination of all levels, unless you are saying only the bigger school stats matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Jimtown frequently beats Northwood, Lafayette Central Catholic frequently beats 3A teams...what's the point? 10% of the wrestlers in the state going to state isn't quite "everyone gets a trophy." I don't know if Lafayette Central Catholic beating 3A teams is you're best example. It would be very rare if that happened, unless you're talking football. Edited January 8, 2016 by Wrestling Scholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden death 7 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Go state japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't know if Lafayette Central Catholic beating 3A teams is you're best example. It would be very rare if that happened, unless you're talking football. That was in football...my post was before I was awake. I'm assuming this is D-1. Odd Stat from someone trying to prove class wrestling works. Why would you only pick D-1 to prove your point. Wouldn't it be the combination of all levels, unless you are saying only the bigger school stats matter. Feel free to compile those stats, the DI stats were easily accessible. The top 4 teams in champions and top 3 in All-Americans and 8 of the top 10 in both all have class wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 When I wrestled I was very much a proponent of our current one class system. As I enter into the world of coaching, my views have softened a bit. I really do like the idea of the prestige that comes with being the individual champion in a single class system. That being said, I don't think any Champs would complain that they were "only" small school state champs. It may not be a perfect analogy, but consider Iowa football this year. They went undefeated in the B1G west and won their division, then took Michigan State to the wire in the conference championship game. Iowas division of their conference was considered to be weaker, but do those players feel any less accomplished for winning it? I doubt it. The single class system isn't perfect, and a class system wouldn't be either. But if our goal as coaches is to bring attention to our wrestlers and use success to build numbers, I think 2 classes would be the way to go infowrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden death 7 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 If we go to a multiple class system then we could have an ihswca best of the best tournament after individual states. #More wrestling = better champions Coach Nieman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Essentially, all that I've gathered from this entire thread is that single class supporters refuse to accept facts and use anecdotal evidence as truth. Multi-class supporters use valid evidence and statistics to prove their point, but to no avail. It's like playing chess with a pigeon... FormerHornet, IU89, allritecoach and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Essentially, all that I've gathered from this entire thread is that single class supporters refuse to accept facts and use anecdotal evidence as truth. Multi-class supporters use valid evidence and statistics to prove their point, but to no avail. It's like playing chess with a pigeon... In under 50 words you have summarized 10 years+ of debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I thought I raised Grenadier better....tsk tsk tsk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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