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The IHSAA was right.


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Preface: I am only in support of two classes. Here are some stats to look over https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r-4OoK27f6-4cfQlPpjYA--6h4Z9IbyXwmAwnAeo9cc/edit?usp=sharing   First and fore

This right here is the best argument I've heard in my short time involved with wrestling. We have the best of both worlds and I think we should stop trying to be like every other state and instead be

Amazing if it is true that the small schools are getting more kids out for the team due to team state, why wouldn't this help if our individual state was classed?

Oh ya and great job Prairie Heights Panthers there first ever state championship of any sport ever.

It may not be an official IHSAA State championship title, but I'm sure you won't notice much of a difference at Prairie Heights High School. One heck of a team they have put together this season. Not only the best in the 1A group, but from I have read and heard one of the better teams in the state in any class.

Edited by MattM
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I certainly don't mean to open up a can of worms on this topic, or hi-jack the original intent of this thread, but I feel compelled to offer my opinion on this topic. I have

long been a proponent of class wrestling. It works beautifully in many other states across our nation and offers magnificent opportunities for kids and teams from

all size schools and communities (that they likely may not have the opportunity to experience in a single class system). The notion and need for some form of class wrestling

in Indiana becomes glaringly evident if you were in attendance at the Classed Team State Duals event. Teams/Schools of all sizes afforded the opportunity to compete within

divisions with schools their own size with similar enrollments, similar size coaching staffs, and similar school resources to name a few "pro-class" characteristics.

 

I don't know that we can put our finger on hard statistics, but I have enjoyed a number of conversations that I have had with coaches and fans from primarily the middle and

small classes regarding the Classed Team State Duals. One coach I spoke with said, "our team numbers are up because our kids want to come back each year and shoot to win the

Team State Duals. They are actually out recruiting friends to come and join the program on our quest to compete and win at the Team State Duals." Another coach noted that the Classed Team State Duals was THE pinnacle event of the season for their team. It's neat to see the teams (from all of the classes) who bought event-specific gear just for

the Classed Team State Duals tournament.

 

As noted in another thread, the fan base for this event is growing. I couldn't help but notice Prairie Heights' fan section when they sealed their championship

yesterday. The roar from their large fan base made everyone's head turn. I realize many people have their varying opinion on the need for classed wrestling in Indiana,

but I think the Classed Team State Duals event is a pretty good indication of what is right and best for ALL wrestling programs in the state.

 

Thank you to all of the schools who participated in yesterday's event and thank you to the fans who made the trip to Ft. Wayne to support your teams.

 

Coach McCormick

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I certainly don't mean to open up a can of worms on this topic, or hi-jack the original intent of this thread, but I feel compelled to offer my opinion on this topic. I havelong been a proponent of class wrestling. It works beautifully in many other states across our nation and offers magnificent opportunities for kids and teams fromall size schools and communities (that they likely may not have the opportunity to experience in a single class system). The notion and need for some form of class wrestlingin Indiana becomes glaringly evident if you were in attendance at the Classed Team State Duals event. Teams/Schools of all sizes afforded the opportunity to compete withindivisions with schools their own size with similar enrollments, similar size coaching staffs, and similar school resources to name a few "pro-class" characteristics.I don't know that we can put our finger on hard statistics, but I have enjoyed a number of conversations that I have had with coaches and fans from primarily the middle andsmall classes regarding the Classed Team State Duals. One coach I spoke with said, "our team numbers are up because our kids want to come back each year and shoot to win theTeam State Duals. They are actually out recruiting friends to come and join the program on our quest to compete and win at the Team State Duals." Another coach noted that the Classed Team State Duals was THE pinnacle event of the season for their team. It's neat to see the teams (from all of the classes) who bought event-specific gear just forthe Classed Team State Duals tournament.As noted in another thread, the fan base for this event is growing. I couldn't help but notice Prairie Heights' fan section when they sealed their championshipyesterday. The roar from their large fan base made everyone's head turn. I realize many people have their varying opinion on the need for classed wrestling in Indiana,but I think the Classed Team State Duals event is a pretty good indication of what is right and best for ALL wrestling programs in the state.Thank you to all of the schools who participated in yesterday's event and thank you to the fans who made the trip to Ft. Wayne to support your teams.Coach McCormick

Personally I feel Indiana is getting the best of both worlds. The single class individual is a awesome. Being able to compete with the top schools your class in a dual format is has also been great. I know for a fact it is helping us with our numbers knowing we have a shot at some form of a state title.

 

I appreciate the opportunity for our team to be a able to both.

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Individual state should not be classed, but I do like the idea of team being a class format. A school the size of say Carmel who has roughly 2400 boys in the top four grades definitely has better odds to put 14 solid wrestlers on the mat versus many 1A schools being able to do the same. That being said a small school can produce 2-3 really solid kids that can compete at a high level on an individual basis. Those boys want the opportunity to compete against all comers at least I know mine do!!

Edited by RASSLER4LIFE
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Individual state should not be classed, but I do like the idea of team being a class format. A school the size of say Carmel who has roughly 2400 boys in the top four grades definitely has better odds to put 14 solid wrestlers on the mat versus many 1A schools being able to do the same. That being said a small school can produce 2-3 really solid kids that can compete at a high level on an individual basis. Those boys want the opportunity to compete against all comers at least I know mine do!!

This right here is the best argument I've heard in my short time involved with wrestling. We have the best of both worlds and I think we should stop trying to be like every other state and instead be better. Having a classed team state and non classed individual tournament is a no brainer at least as long as the two are separated. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people from other classed states say they envy our single champ per weight class system for various reasons. I don't know about you but the last way to get me to do something is because everyone else is doing it. Let Ohio have 6 195lbs. state champs. Why don't we build on what we are doing here right now and let them want to be like us. Let's not class just because everyone else is doing it, the grass isn't always greener.

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This right here is the best argument I've heard in my short time involved with wrestling. We have the best of both worlds and I think we should stop trying to be like every other state and instead be better. Having a classed team state and non classed individual tournament is a no brainer at least as long as the two are separated. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people from other classed states say they envy our single champ per weight class system for various reasons. I don't know about you but the last way to get me to do something is because everyone else is doing it. Let Ohio have 6 195lbs. state champs. Why don't we build on what we are doing here right now and let them want to be like us. Let's not class just because everyone else is doing it, the grass isn't always greener.

Ohio has 3 classes

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@Y2, why are you so worried about classing individual wrestling? For a big school you sure seem worried about it, I don't see many small school coaches pushing for it. Why because to be the best you have to beat the best and like I said that's what my guys want. To compete against the best.

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@Y2, why are you so worried about classing individual wrestling? For a big school you sure seem worried about it, I don't see many small school coaches pushing for it. Why because to be the best you have to beat the best and like I said that's what my guys want. To compete against the best.

I was at Garrett, which has around 600 students for 10 years as a coach and many more during my glory days.

 

I see the difference in each school with my own two eyes and can identify Garrett isn't playing with the same deck of cards that Carroll is.

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I like being the underdog and over achieving, it creates a challenge which I am always up for. I remember an undefeated state champ from Turkey Run, 2 state champs from Union County and 1 from Winchester, last 3 all in the same year. So I know it can be done. Once again, we have confidence in several of our guys and their ability to compete against the best. I would never tell them that they aren't on a level playing field.

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I like being the underdog and over achieving, it creates a challenge which I am always up for. I remember an undefeated state champ from Turkey Run, 2 state champs from Union County and 1 from Winchester, last 3 all in the same year. So I know it can be done. Once again, we have confidence in several of our guys and their ability to compete against the best. I would never tell them that they aren't on a level playing field.

Preface: I am only in support of two classes.

Here are some stats to look over

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r-4OoK27f6-4cfQlPpjYA--6h4Z9IbyXwmAwnAeo9cc/edit?usp=sharing

 

First and foremost I'm a fan of wrestling, as a fan of wrestling I like that we have our true champion, our spotlight, etc. However as someone that has coached at both big and small schools and someone that now promotes the sport I am left to wonder how much damage we are doing by having a single class system. There is no question that it "can happen" and "does happen."

Are we in this sport for just the state champs though? Are we only here as coaches and parents of this great sport for the state champs? I would hope not, I would think we are here to give our kids a great experience in this sport in hopes of they continue the great tradition with their kids. With that said does it really matter if you have to share a state title with others? Does Prairie Heights or Bellmont feel slighted by their titles this week? Do those in other states feel their state titles are "cheaper?" I wrestled in Ohio in college and when you'd ask a kid how he did at state he would say "champ, "3rd", "4th", etc...and very rarely would they include what division.

 

Now let's say we go to two classes and double the number of state qualifiers. Now we'd have about 10% of the varsity wrestlers qualifying for state, up from just over 5%. Note that this would still be one of the top 7 most difficult state tournaments in the country, so we would lose very little prestige. With an added 12 qualifiers for small schools(note approximately 4 qualify already) per weight we will see many more teams represented at the state finals. Many more kids, coaches, families, teams, and communities will get to participate in the parade of champions, enjoy a parade through the school halls, and all the other fun stuff that goes with going to state. Let's say 50 more schools are now represented at state each year(up from around 100). This means the sport is getting more attention at those schools, more attention then will trickle to the other students, parents, youth, and community. That kind of attention will help grow the sport.

 

When I was at Garrett as an athlete I was literally the SECOND semi-state qualifier in school history...that was in 1997! We were extremely mediocre and going to regional used to be a BIG DEAL. With a change of attitude and some hard work it is now expected that Garrett take athlete(s) to the state finals. After we got our first state qualifier the flood gates opened and it helped grow the program from the youth level up. Can that be done with the current setup? Of course, but again what are we sacrificing for our spotlight? Are we really hurting more than we are helping?

 

Lastly one typical comeback is, why not just increase the number of state qualifiers to 32? It would help, but in reality only four more small school athletes would get to state rather than 12 if you split into two classes.

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I'd like to see both classed and single class individual tournaments and same for team duals. The schedule doesn't really let this. Just curious as to why other sports like the round ball goes on a month longer than wrestling and why we couldn't extend the season to maybe accomplish this.

Edited by casualwrestlingfan
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