The IHSAA was right.

[RASSLER4LIFE]

I will always want to compete in a one class system. If you look at basketball for example: I have seen a rather down turn in attendance since they went to classes but then again I live near New Castle and I was around in the hay days when we filled their gymnasium with 9500 people during the sectionals. They are lucky to have a quarter of that now.

 

Many large schools are finding it difficult to field full teams. Wrestling is hard, it's a grind and kids have so many outside distractions so I don't think classing wrestling is gonna see a huge explosion in numbers. Small schools only have so many athletes and many that might turn to wrestling at a big school are often basketball players at these schools.

 

I think expanding to 32 might get a few more thru to state but I don't think that's the answer either. Why change a good thing if it's working. We are one of 2 states that have one state champion and I think that's pretty awesome. Crowning state champs aren't the best thing about wrestling anyways, it's the life skills we want the kids to pick up. You know dedication, hardwork, responsibility, the drive to succeed and being accountable. Outwork your competition is what we preach. Get to a premium club, compete in the off season, do what it takes to make you successful.

Edited January 4, 2016 by RASSLER4LIFE

[warsawwrestling]

If the focus isn't on 3A as you say Y2, then why were they placed in the middle during team state.  Why wouldn't it be laid out 1, 2, 3.  Seems like most of the hype is focused on 3A, also a lot of comparing whether or not 1A Prairie Heights can beat any of the 3A teams.  The fact that people are asking the question brings me back to why would we change.  People want to know who the best is when you go to state, if not we would give everyone a metal that goes to it.

Edited January 4, 2016 by warsawwrestling

[Y2CJ41]

I will always want to compete in a one class system. If you look at basketball for example: I have seen a rather down turn in attendance since they went to classes but then again I live near New Castle and I was around in the hay days when we filled their gymnasium with 9500 people during the sectionals. They are lucky to have a quarter of that now.

Basketball is thriving still. State tournament attendance was dropping drastically after the Damon Bailey years. It wasn't the class system.

 

Many large schools are finding it difficult to field full teams. Wrestling is hard, it's a grind and kids have so many outside distractions so I don't think classing wrestling is gonna see a huge explosion in numbers. Small schools only have so many athletes and many that might turn to wrestling at a big school are often basketball players at these schools.

"Many" is a rough word when you can't back it up with stats and facts. The numbers were posted on here within the past two years and 3A teams had close to 13 roster spots filled, while 1A had closer to 9 or 10. I'll try to find the stats.

 

Also it won't be an explosion, it will be an increase over 10-15 years in which you would see the affects.

 

Even with that, bigger schools will still see the same amount or more success in a two classed system. They would be affected very little.

 

I think expanding to 32 might get a few more thru to state but I don't think that's the answer either. Why change a good thing if it's working. We are one of 2 states that have one state champion and I think that's pretty awesome. Crowning state champs aren't the best thing about wrestling anyways, it's the life skills we want the kids to pick up. You know dedication, hardwork, responsibility, the drive to succeed and being accountable. Outwork your competition is what we preach. Get to a premium club, compete in the off season, do what it takes to make you successful.

Is our system working? Small schools are struggling to fill teams, big schools are struggling to fill full teams. We are NOT one of two states to have a single class champion. New Jersey, Kentucky, California, Vermont, Hawaii, and Delaware also have a single class state.

 

What would it hurt the sport if more kids were able to see the results of the dedication, hard work, responsibility, etc? The current wrestlers are our future coaches, parents, refs or super fans. More kids experiencing state will rub off on their teammates and others around them. What you don't see is if a kid from a small school qualifies for state his teammates will want to join them, they will experience state and be a lot more inclined to do more work to join them the next year. More kids will experience the ticket round and thus feel more inclined to go one step further. Not only would we help participation, but we'd also help our quality of wrestling.

 

On top of that, if you have ever noticed our state finals has very little appeal to college coaches. We have many kids that lose at semi-state that are capable small school college wrestlers. What coach would go to Indiana to see 224 kids, with half only having one match when they can go to Ohio(3 classes), Michigan(4 classes), Illinois(3 classes), etc and get a lot more bang for their buck. 

 

The tuff guy "one state champ" pride of our state is not helping our sport grow at the small school level, it is actually killing it.

[Y2CJ41]

If the focus isn't on 3A as you say Y2, then why were they placed in the middle during team state.  Why wouldn't it be laid out 1, 2, 3.  Seems like most of the hype is focused on 3A, also a lot of comparing whether or not 1A Prairie Heights can beat any of the 3A teams.  The fact that people are asking the question brings me back to why would we change.  People want to know who the best is when you go to state, if not we would give everyone a metal that goes to it.

If the focus was on 3A then we wouldn't have any classes at this event anyway and it would have been done similar to how the IHSAA did it.

 

We would change to grow the sport...are we really coaching just for the state champs? If I were I would have hung up the whistle a long time ago. People in other states know who the best is because of in-season and out of season events. How much more lore would it add to the Al Smith when a 1A and 2A champ are battling it out in the finals? 

[warsawwrestling]

If the focus was on 3A then we wouldn't have any classes at this event anyway and it would have been done similar to how the IHSAA did it.

 

We would change to grow the sport...are we really coaching just for the state champs? If I were I would have hung up the whistle a long time ago. People in other states know who the best is because of in-season and out of season events. How much more lore would it add to the Al Smith when a 1A and 2A champ are battling it out in the finals? 

Can you imagine how long that seeding meeting would be.  All those Semi-States to say kids went to, but didn't.  We will have to agree to disagree. I believe the growth of wrestling is through little kids, youth and after season programs.  I think PH, Belmont’s (have for a long time) and Jimtown’s are proving small schools can compete with the bigger ones. PH’s kids club has rocked it for years, Belmont and Jimtown are running stuff all the time (along with others these are the ones I know about).

 

[RASSLER4LIFE]

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. The lack of an opportunity to wrestle at state is not killing wrestling. The hard work and amount of effort that goes into becoming a state quality wrestler might be. Kids are different today and that's a fact. Many would rather have it handed to them than to get any satisfaction from the effort it takes to get there. You want numbers, check Ben Davis wrestling numbers, how about Southport and Decatuer Central are a few big schools that I have seen this year that aren't carrying full rosters. It's easy to see in your results page with the large amount of forfeits from these schools. The inner city Indianapolis schools have trouble fielding full teams.

 

Attendance at basketball has dropped for years, to say it's thriving, I would say is a stretch.

[Y2CJ41]

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. The lack of an opportunity to wrestle at state is not killing wrestling. The hard work and amount of effort that goes into becoming a state quality wrestler might be. Kids are different today and that's a fact. Many would rather have it handed to them than to get any satisfaction from the effort it takes to get there. You want numbers, check Ben Davis wrestling numbers, how about Southport and Decatuer Central are a few big schools that I have seen this year that aren't carrying full rosters. It's easy to see in your results page with the large amount of forfeits from these schools. The inner city Indianapolis schools have trouble fielding full teams.

 

Attendance at basketball has dropped for years, to say it's thriving, I would say is a stretch.

That's a pretty sad attitude to say kids won't work hard. I had teammates 20 years ago that wouldn't work hard and the old folks then said the same thing the old folks say now. Kids will work hard if pushed, kids want to succeed and saying that they are lazy and want everything handed to them is an easy out because you can't prove it. 

 

The quality of wrestling in this state is better than 20 years ago, but with lazier kids? I don't buy it.

 

You can point out big schools with forfeits, good for you. I can probably name 70 of the 1A teams with forfeits... can you name 70 3A teams with a forfeit?

[RASSLER4LIFE]

i agree, Indiana wrestling is better than it ever has been, ever! That's proven by the number of top quality wrestlers we have in the national rankings and wrestling in division 1 wrestling programs. So how is class sports going to improve that! I don't believe that it can or will. It goes back to getting coaches that have college experience back in our state sharing their knowledge, starting many wrestling clubs where top quality kids from many different schools seek out the best partners, and of course hardwork and dedication. I went to school in the 80's and every county school around carried close to a full roster. Oh by the way we were still in one class then. There are many things that could be considered for our sport to be 'dying'. Maybe it's being tied up every Saturday from before sunup to sunset every week, having to turn in on a Friday night at a decent time, the weight management or maybe kids find other things that don't require the hard-work and dedication.

 

Our team has very many dedicated kids that do work hard. Some because we push them and some do it without our urging because they are self motivated. We run a pretty tough practice and don't see many teams that are any better conditioned than ours. Our kids aren't afraid to battle. I asked 2 tonight if they would be satisfied to wrestle in a 2 class system or stay with the one class system we have now to compete against the big schools and neither hesitated to say they wanted to be tested in a one class system. As far as kids not working hard, I was referring to kids that won't come out or some that come out and quit after one week because it is so hard!

 

You should be able to find 14 kids that are dedicated to wrestling. We have a roster of roughly 20 kids. All but a couple play multiple sports. Only 1 does nothing but wrestle. How many kids go to Carroll? Your have more in one grade than we do in the top 4 so surely you can find enough to fill your roster like most large schools. If you think society isn't softer you're sadly mistaken and I never said that all kids won't work hard. I also be named a few large schools that were having trouble fielding full rosters because you said ""Many" is a rough word when you can't back it up with stats and facts."

 

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree.

Edited January 4, 2016 by RASSLER4LIFE

[Y2CJ41]

How do we get more kids to the college level when college coaches don't even attend our state finals? There are many semi-state level or state qualifier level kids that could do well in college, but without much contact from colleges they hang up their shoes.  Getting these kids exposure will help as they will come back to help coach whether it is at the high school or youth programs. 

 

Class wrestling will help our depth, we have very little depth compared to our neighbors.  Our top guys can compete well, but when you start to go down the line we don't compete as well. 

 

There are many reasons why we don't ask kids for their opinions on things. Do you consult with them on what moves you will show? What would they say if you asked what they should serve for lunch? They'd say Mountain Dew, ice cream, and pizza...every day. Do you ask them what the criteria to graduate should be? Ask them what age should be able to drive, they'll say 13, so I guess that should be the law. Go ask them what the age to drink alcohol should be...they'll say 16, so that should be the law.  The honest truth is they will compete in whatever system is in place. Kids don't quit in Ohio because it's classed. Kids don't quit football because it's classed. 

[RASSLER4LIFE]

Please explain how class will help our depth. Some of the states like Illinois, Pennsylvania or Ohio have a population that is twice ours. So therefore maybe that's the reason they have classes in wrestling or could be why they have more depth of talent. Kind of like it should be easier for you to find 14 dedicated wrestlers with 2200 students versus say a school with 500 students. I guess the law of averages takes over. So a state placer in Ohio or Penn. would be desired over some of our state placers because their talent pool is deeper. Doesn't mean that one of our placers couldn't defeat one of their state champs but since their state is bigger we shouldn't be given a chance to compete in the same national tournaments with them then.

 

Getting more in state programs started like Indiana Tech and the new one at Ancilla is a start of getting our kids into college programs. Division 3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships: i.e. Manchester & Wabash. Cost could become a factor where a kid may choose Ball State over Wabash so they end up hanging up their shoes instead of competing at college level.

 

Common sense, says I wouldn't ask my kids a question that requires critical thinking. So I wouldn't ask them such stupid questions and think I would get a logical answer. Not all choices we make for kids are the right ones, as a parent you will figure that out someday. I want my kid to compete against any and all, not just the "small school" or the "big class". Wrestling is different than many sports. It pays to be athletic but I have seen many wrestlers that weren't exceptional athletes fair as well as anybody. I went to a small school, was a semi-state qualifier and wouldn't have wanted it any other way than to compete against all comers come the state tournament. I guess I have lots of confidence in myself, my wrestlers and their ability to compete at a high level. There is more satisfaction in beating the doubter and naysayers as well!

Edited January 4, 2016 by RASSLER4LIFE

[Y2CJ41]

Please explain how class will help our depth. Some of the states like Illinois, Pennsylvania or Ohio have a population that is twice ours. So therefore maybe that's the reason they have classes in wrestling or could be why they have more depth of talent. Kind of like it should be easier for you to find 14 dedicated wrestlers with 2200 students versus say a school with 500 students. I guess the law of averages takes over. So a state placer in Ohio or Penn. would be desired over some of our state placers because their talent pool is deeper. Doesn't mean that one of our placers couldn't defeat one of their state champs but since their state is bigger we shouldn't be given a chance to compete in the same national tournaments with them then.

1. More participation- With more kids having success more will want to join them. Thus more kids will be participating in wrestling.

2. More kids are now ticket round or state qualifiers- That will encourage them to do more off season training(camps, tournaments, RTCs). Thus is will make them BETTER wrestlers and increase our depth

3. More kids wrestling in college- With more exposure and now earlier in their careers colleges will take notice and kids will wrestle in college. Gradually they will come back to the sport and help out.

 

Getting more in state programs started like Indiana Tech and the new one at Ancilla is a start of getting our kids into college programs. Division 3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships: i.e. Manchester & Wabash. Cost could become a factor where a kid may choose Ball State over Wabash so they end up hanging up their shoes instead of competing at college level.

It's not cost it's lack of recruiting. There are many fine wrestlers that could help those programs that are eliminated at semi-state. Wabash can't send a coach to all four semi-states, neither can Anicilla or really ANY program for that matter. If they go to state they are lucky if 8 kids in a weight class are seniors. Again hard to recruit with such a small pool of athletes.

 

Common sense, says I wouldn't ask my kids a question that requires critical thinking. So I wouldn't ask them such stupid questions and think I would get a logical answer. Not all choices we make for kids are the right ones, as a parent you will figure that out someday. I want my kid to compete against any and all, not just the "small school" or the "big class". Wrestling is different than many sports. It pays to be athletic but I have seen many wrestlers that weren't exceptional athletes fair as well as anybody. I went to a small school, was a semi-state qualifier and wouldn't have wanted it any other way than to compete against all comers come the state tournament. I guess I have lots of confidence in myself, my wrestlers and their ability to compete at a high level. There is more satisfaction in beating the doubter and naysayers as well!

Your kids have no understanding of growing the sport or the health of the sport...nor do they really care. As a coach I make the schedule for my team, I do NOT consult with the kids on our schedule. That is my job as an adult, to see that the kids are best prepared for the state series. 40+ other states seem just fine with classed systems, why aren't there topics in Ohio, Illinois, or Michigan about the need to go to a single class system? Why aren't those small schools crying foul that they can't compete with St. Eds or Graham? Have they accepted they are failures?

 

The Rudy attitude is great, but it doesn't help the sport grow in our state. Your kids, the school, the parents, the community would celebrate a state champion no different if we were classed. Our small schools are very much on life support these days. With school budgets being cut wrestling could soon be in the chopping block. It is difficult to find coaches in many areas and some administrators would rather not deal with the sport. If the sport is successful and they can point that they had kids in the ticket round or as state qualifiers it will help the sport on that front also.

[RASSLER4LIFE]

How can you state that cost isn't a factor. That it's all recruiting. To me spending $35k+ a year to go to a school like Wabash to wrestle versus half of that to go to Ball State is a huge factor. Most wrestling families are middle class families and money is always an issue, if they can get a quality education for less $'s that could sway a kid to hang up his shoes. On top of that, there is a lot that goes into college recruiting, not just showing up at semi-state or state to 'judge' the talent.

 

I like the class format for team just not as an individual, that being said you missed your calling. A guy that has all the answers like you should move on to a higher calling like a political office for the greater good of all of us.

[Major Ursula]

I was at Garrett, which has around 600 students for 10 years as a coach and many more during my glory days.

 

 

I see the difference in each school with my own two eyes and can identify Garrett isn't playing with the same deck of cards that Carroll is.

Spot on Y2. Iowa has had class wrestling for decades. Doesn't seem to hurt them in national competition. Doesn't prevent them from having numerous D1 wrestlers every year. And I'll tell you from personal experience; the kid from Don Bosco(2A) is just as happy with his title as the kid from Iowa City West(3A) is. No one complains about tainted titles. Let's face it our state is conservative in many ways. We love tradition. But some of our traditions are holding us back. Weight cutting is one(Indiana Skeletons as we are referred to on some other forums). The other is what I believe to be an outdated format. And no wrestle backs at Semi-State? Edited January 4, 2016 by Major Ursula

[Y2CJ41]

How can you state that cost isn't a factor. That it's all recruiting. To me spending $35k+ a year to go to a school like Wabash to wrestle versus half of that to go to Ball State is a huge factor. Most wrestling families are middle class families and money is always an issue, if they can get a quality education for less $'s that could sway a kid to hang up his shoes. On top of that, there is a lot that goes into college recruiting, not just showing up at semi-state or state to 'judge' the talent.

 

I like the class format for team just not as an individual, that being said you missed your calling. A guy that has all the answers like you should move on to a higher calling like a political office for the greater good of all of us.

No one pays $35K to go to Wabash. Small private schools have big original price tags, but they knock a great deal off for everything including having a heartbeat, graduating high school, counting to 10, etc. If you even have decent grades you can go to Wabash for the same amount you go to Ball State, Indiana, or Purdue.

[RASSLER4LIFE]

Ok, my kid went there for a year, so I think I know. They can get it down to the full cost of a year for a state ran institution. The same financial help you get at Wabash you can get at the state institutions. In turn Wabash was around $17K and by going to Ball State it was down to about less than $10K. Take that times four years and there is a substantial amount saved.

[Fabio Jr.]

And Some kids want to compete....I came outta college 90 grand in debt....got a great education and got to compete....My parents helped as much as they could but that was minuscule. Its not for everyone but it is an opportunity that could be extended to more kids. 

I knew I was gonna compete. I had a HANDFUL of schools recruiting me: Wabash, North Central, Air Force, and the school I ended up choosing Findlay. (UINDY I wanted you so bad but you didn't want me ) I wouldn't trade my time in Ohio for anything it was a great fit as a school and a great room to wrestle in. 

 

At the end of the day our sport lives and dies by participation. #growthesport

[Y2CJ41]

Forfeits per class over the past three years

3A=1.5

2A=2.7

1A=4.6

 

Yet our bottom 100 schools are just fine...wow

[XCard]

Preface: I am only in support of two classes.

Here are some stats to look over

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r-4OoK27f6-4cfQlPpjYA--6h4Z9IbyXwmAwnAeo9cc/edit?usp=sharing

 

First and foremost I'm a fan of wrestling, as a fan of wrestling I like that we have our true champion, our spotlight, etc. However as someone that has coached at both big and small schools and someone that now promotes the sport I am left to wonder how much damage we are doing by having a single class system. There is no question that it "can happen" and "does happen."

 

Are we in this sport for just the state champs though? Are we only here as coaches and parents of this great sport for the state champs? I would hope not, I would think we are here to give our kids a great experience in this sport in hopes of they continue the great tradition with their kids. With that said does it really matter if you have to share a state title with others? Does Prairie Heights or Bellmont feel slighted by their titles this week? Do those in other states feel their state titles are "cheaper?" I wrestled in Ohio in college and when you'd ask a kid how he did at state he would say "champ, "3rd", "4th", etc...and very rarely would they include what division.

 

Now let's say we go to two classes and double the number of state qualifiers. Now we'd have about 10% of the varsity wrestlers qualifying for state, up from just over 5%. Note that this would still be one of the top 7 most difficult state tournaments in the country, so we would lose very little prestige. With an added 12 qualifiers for small schools(note approximately 4 qualify already) per weight we will see many more teams represented at the state finals. Many more kids, coaches, families, teams, and communities will get to participate in the parade of champions, enjoy a parade through the school halls, and all the other fun stuff that goes with going to state. Let's say 50 more schools are now represented at state each year(up from around 100). This means the sport is getting more attention at those schools, more attention then will trickle to the other students, parents, youth, and community. That kind of attention will help grow the sport.

 

When I was at Garrett as an athlete I was literally the SECOND semi-state qualifier in school history...that was in 1997! We were extremely mediocre and going to regional used to be a BIG DEAL. With a change of attitude and some hard work it is now expected that Garrett take athlete(s) to the state finals. After we got our first state qualifier the flood gates opened and it helped grow the program from the youth level up. Can that be done with the current setup? Of course, but again what are we sacrificing for our spotlight? Are we really hurting more than we are helping?

 

Lastly one typical comeback is, why not just increase the number of state qualifiers to 32? It would help, but in reality only four more small school athletes would get to state rather than 12 if you split into two classes.

Out of all that I took away that........wow you are getting old, 1997!

 

All kidding aside, nicely put, but I think one factor also has to go to the dedication of a coach that is willing to put forth the effort to bring their program up. I hope nobody takes this as a knock on their coaching ability, and I don't think it's the end all and if you are not being successful you are a bad coach. However, one common denominator in all of the state's successful programs, whether they are small class or large class, is their coaches putting the time in as well.

[Fabio Jr.]

Out of all that I took away that........wow you are getting old, 1997!

 

All kidding aside, nicely put, but I think one factor also has to go to the dedication of a coach that is willing to put forth the effort to bring their program up. I hope nobody takes this as a knock on their coaching ability, and I don't think it's the end all and if you are not being successful you are a bad coach. However, one common denominator in all of the state's successful programs, whether they are small class or large class, is their coaches putting the time in as well.

Paul you are right...Let me give you a typical week around this time

 

M- HS Practice 320-530ish, Beginners youth 545-645 Intermediate yourth 645-745

T- HS Practice 320-530ish, Beginners youth 545-645 Intermediate yourth 645-745

W- HS Practice 320-530ish, Occasionally Dual meet

Th- HS Practice 320-530ish, Beginners youth 545-645 Intermediate yourth 645-745

F- HS Practice 320-530ish, Elite youth 600-700

Sat- HS Tournament

Sun-Youth Tournament

 

Work 8 hours a day on top of that

[Y2CJ41]

Out of all that I took away that........wow you are getting old, 1997!

 

All kidding aside, nicely put, but I think one factor also has to go to the dedication of a coach that is willing to put forth the effort to bring their program up. I hope nobody takes this as a knock on their coaching ability, and I don't think it's the end all and if you are not being successful you are a bad coach. However, one common denominator in all of the state's successful programs, whether they are small class or large class, is their coaches putting the time in as well.

When small schools get good coaches, they have a hard time keeping them. Guys like Tonte and Harper all started at small schools, but quickly moved on. Tonte even upped himself going from 2200 kids to 3600 just this year! Unless something crazy happens I don't see Tonte heading to a smaller school any time soon...if ever.

 

It's extremely rare to have good coaches at small schools stay there for an extended period of time in wrestling. In other classed sports though you see a lot more of the top coaches staying with their schools.

[Coach McCormick]

Preface: I am only in support of two classes.

Here are some stats to look over

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r-4OoK27f6-4cfQlPpjYA--6h4Z9IbyXwmAwnAeo9cc/edit?usp=sharing

 

First and foremost I'm a fan of wrestling, as a fan of wrestling I like that we have our true champion, our spotlight, etc. However as someone that has coached at both big and small schools and someone that now promotes the sport I am left to wonder how much damage we are doing by having a single class system. There is no question that it "can happen" and "does happen."

Are we in this sport for just the state champs though? Are we only here as coaches and parents of this great sport for the state champs? I would hope not, I would think we are here to give our kids a great experience in this sport in hopes of they continue the great tradition with their kids. With that said does it really matter if you have to share a state title with others? Does Prairie Heights or Bellmont feel slighted by their titles this week? Do those in other states feel their state titles are "cheaper?" I wrestled in Ohio in college and when you'd ask a kid how he did at state he would say "champ, "3rd", "4th", etc...and very rarely would they include what division.

 

Now let's say we go to two classes and double the number of state qualifiers. Now we'd have about 10% of the varsity wrestlers qualifying for state, up from just over 5%. Note that this would still be one of the top 7 most difficult state tournaments in the country, so we would lose very little prestige. With an added 12 qualifiers for small schools(note approximately 4 qualify already) per weight we will see many more teams represented at the state finals. Many more kids, coaches, families, teams, and communities will get to participate in the parade of champions, enjoy a parade through the school halls, and all the other fun stuff that goes with going to state. Let's say 50 more schools are now represented at state each year(up from around 100). This means the sport is getting more attention at those schools, more attention then will trickle to the other students, parents, youth, and community. That kind of attention will help grow the sport.

 

When I was at Garrett as an athlete I was literally the SECOND semi-state qualifier in school history...that was in 1997! We were extremely mediocre and going to regional used to be a BIG DEAL. With a change of attitude and some hard work it is now expected that Garrett take athlete(s) to the state finals. After we got our first state qualifier the flood gates opened and it helped grow the program from the youth level up. Can that be done with the current setup? Of course, but again what are we sacrificing for our spotlight? Are we really hurting more than we are helping?

 

Lastly one typical comeback is, why not just increase the number of state qualifiers to 32? It would help, but in reality only four more small school athletes would get to state rather than 12 if you split into two classes.

 

Well said... and nicely supported with documentation and solid rationale.  I second this motion.

 

With respect to KarlHungus's question to me...  I said "doubtful" simply because the IHSAA has traditionally and steadfastly said they will not class any "individual" sports.  The IHSWCA doesn't have any type of hidden agenda to "keep" the Team State Duals or "let go" of the team state duals to the IHSAA.  We simply feel that it feels an important niche in Indiana's wrestling community AND it's the right thing to do.  In my dealing with the IHSAA over the years they have made it very clear that their individually classified sports will not be classed.  (** you never know though... strange things sometimes happen... maybe 2016 will bring signs of change.)

[XCard]

When small schools get good coaches, they have a hard time keeping them. Guys like Tonte and Harper all started at small schools, but quickly moved on. Tonte even upped himself going from 2200 kids to 3600 just this year! Unless something crazy happens I don't see Tonte heading to a smaller school any time soon...if ever.

 

It's extremely rare to have good coaches at small schools stay there for an extended period of time in wrestling. In other classed sports though you see a lot more of the top coaches staying with their schools.

I agree Joe. Guess my point is how do we get those good guys to stay at those small schools? I have softened on the whole individual class thing over the years. How many guys are coming back and coaching? Seems like we need to extend our coaching trees to take jobs at other places. Maybe a class system creates some of those guys?

[Wrestling Scholar]

Ok, my kid went there for a year, so I think I know. They can get it down to the full cost of a year for a state ran institution. The same financial help you get at Wabash you can get at the state institutions. In turn Wabash was around $17K and by going to Ball State it was down to about less than $10K. Take that times four years and there is a substantial amount saved.

With my son is a Senior, and  we've been going through the college tuition obstacle course.       I would agree with Y2, most private institutions have a sticker price  that is 2x -3x higher than state colleges.  But if you can get into these private institutions,  you almost always automatically qualify for some type of  scholarship that brings it a lot closer to the price an in state college.   The trick is the amount of scholarship you can get is generally based on a scale that factors in ACT/SAT score and GPA.   The higher the both the more scholarship you get, but this is always a variable factor contingent on the student.   Throw in a partial athletic scholarship and maybe some financial aid,  and you're doing better and state school tuition. .   Ill add D3 schools like Wabash cant give athletic scholarships, but Ive heard the coaches work the system to get more academic for their athletes.    My son was looking at IU, but we came in $5K per year better than IU with our private school tuition.

[RASSLER4LIFE]

Never said that the sport wasn't struggling for participants, especially at the small schools. I get that. I just said I wanted to be able to compete against everybody at individual state.

 

If you don't think I want forty kids in my room, you are sadly mistaken. We are working very hard from the ground up to build up the program. We want the same mindset the community has for football in our wrestling program. We encourage kids to try it out for a couple of weeks and don't look down on them if they don't like it. I have been involved in large school programs as well and still struggled to get and keep kids interested in wrestling. The large school, I assisted with has always had a deep tradition in wrestling. I know Brownsburg is a large school but I like what they are doing to promote the sport. Getting the fan base to grow from parents to the entire community is huge. I applaud them! I also want that opportunity to compete against them at individual state. I don't know the answers but I don't think classing the individual is the answer. Am I wrong? Maybe, maybe not. We must find ways to promote our great sport but even on a national basis it's not. We need sponsors to get our sport on ESPN more than just the NCAA's. Even the BTN network will show a rerun versus showing live wrestling at times. It's not just our state but a world wide problem if they were going to take wrestling out of the Olympics.

[KarlHungus]

Well said... and nicely supported with documentation and solid rationale.  I second this motion.

 

With respect to KarlHungus's question to me...  I said "doubtful" simply because the IHSAA has traditionally and steadfastly said they will not class any "individual" sports.  The IHSWCA doesn't have any type of hidden agenda to "keep" the Team State Duals or "let go" of the team state duals to the IHSAA.  We simply feel that it feels an important niche in Indiana's wrestling community AND it's the right thing to do.  In my dealing with the IHSAA over the years they have made it very clear that their individually classified sports will not be classed.  (** you never know though... strange things sometimes happen... maybe 2016 will bring signs of change.)

Thanks