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3A Team State Draw and Discussion


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We do things our own way. We aren't trying to sneak up on anyone or hide. People noticing us is fine and what we set out to do. We have grown our fan base and our hate base tremendously. Students a

Coach Snyder,  I have been following wrestling for many years and am very impressed with the program you and your staff have put together! This is my first time posting after years of following this

Your line of reasoning is just so far off its hard to take it seriously. You are putting the cart before the horse.   Teams aren't good because of the number of ranked guys they have. They get rank

With all the debacle I have a feeling a lot of teams will decline an invite.

 

This would show a lack of integrity from said school, not the seeding committee. There is one state champion still. Seeds don't decide winners, the kids do.

 

Are you serious they aren't streaming this year??? is that because they are at a "better venue" and cost more for it to be there so they don't want to lose the money from the admission?

  

I'll be back in Florida by this time, Zach, and have invested interest in all 3 of the top teams for different reasons. I really wanted to watch, but will have to rely on some parents to text results.

 

Am I missing something? Why is Everyone so high on Brownsburg? Who on the seeding committee actuality thinks BB could beat Perry or Penn or Portage. What a joke

I remember reading many threads and posts that had BB at 2 or 3. If the 2 and 3 are seeded correctly but not respectively, they should handle the 6, 11, 14 and 16 with ease and face each other #2 vs #3 anywyas so who cares?

 

Penn and Cathedral won last year and two years ago? Perry won 3 years ago? Who cares? Perry's coaching staff has changed pretty drastically and I would bet personnel on all teams have changed.

 

Brownsburg has put together a contending program over the last 3 years under Snyder and Weisjan. Deal with it. Sick of people undermining one of the best coaches in the state as if be hasn't been there before. He's been there. I wrestled opposite of Snyder and Weisjan in 2005 at Center Grove and watched him beat my alma mater for his first run at a state title at Mishawaka and had the honor of coaching under him last season at BB.

 

So there you have it. A Perry alumni, one year removed from coaching under Brownsburg, with an idol and life mentor coaching for Warren Central, saying to save the bad mouthing these programs and let the wrestling talk. If #2 Perry has BARN BURNERS with Penn and Cathedral than smokes BB out of the water I think we will all be very very surprised but only then are you right to be so down on Snyder's Pain Train

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2-6 is a draw in the hat, they are all really close...no matter who was put in there someone would be crying. The first year Mater Dei was a clear #5 seed, but they only seeded 4 so they drew the eventual #2 seed first round and lost on a tiebreaker.

 

If we seed 10...or 12 maybe we don't get Cathedral in the draw, but they lost to LN and Avon so it's hard to justify seeding them.

 

I know I would not be happy if we beat a team and then all of a sudden they are seeded ahead of us. 

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Seems to be a lot of belly aching by the fans. Seems like the kids and the coaches are just happy to have a shot to wrestle the best. To be the best, you have to beat the best. We are not there yet but are grateful to be a part of it. Just wish my son was healthy enough to give it a go. Good luck to all parents and coaches.... And more importantly to the kids!

 

Thank you to all that put this on. I know that you spend tons of time (which translates to lost income and time away from family) to put this on.

Edited by Mattyb
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We all knew Bburg would get the #2...Fabio gets special consideration. On another not cathedral has had to wrestle perry every year at this tourney. They then wrestle in a dual next week.

It was mentioned during the broadcast that maybe next year they'd move to a separation for teams by area of the state. Seems to be a good idea. As would not placing a team like Cathedral who is in the top five in Indiana history in nearly every category as a low seed. Cathedral also apparently requires more hashtags.

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We all knew Bburg would get the #2...Fabio gets special consideration. On another not cathedral has had to wrestle perry every year at this tourney. They then wrestle in a dual next week.

Cathedral didn't wrestle Perry in 2013/14 at this event.

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It was mentioned during the broadcast that maybe next year they'd move to a separation for teams by area of the state. Seems to be a good idea. As would not placing a team like Cathedral who is in the top five in Indiana history in nearly every category as a low seed. Cathedral also apparently requires more hashtags.

I'm not sure how separating would work though.

 

In 3A there are seeded Indy teams in all but the B pool. That would mean Hamilton Southeastern or Cathedral are going to run into another Indy area team no matter what.

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Just so everyone is clear: Cathedral is in Group C because of a blind draw for the four unseeded teams. Cathedral lost a dual to the 8 seed, Avon. It would have been very difficult to find a way to seed a team that had so many head to head losses to other teams in the competition, all without a win.

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I take no issue with BB. Lots of good teams here. Just seems kinda strange the last three state champs are in one pool. I guess one of these three teams in pool C should have won the Heartland Elementary Duals in 2011 like a certain team did. That obviously would have got them a higher seed over state title winning teams.

 

why does the 2011 Heartland Elementary Duals Team from Illinois have anything to do with this topic.  You do realize all these are Indiana teams right ?  and this is Indiana high school team state right ?  Maybe you have signed onto the wrong message board to complain.  Sign back into Illinois message boards and start commenting on their issues. 

BTW IN has never won the Heartland Elementary Duals (2011--IL, 2012--OH, 2013--OH, 2014--MN, 2015--PA)

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I take no issue with BB. Lots of good teams here. Just seems kinda strange the last three state champs are in one pool. I guess one of these three teams in pool C should have won the Heartland Elementary Duals in 2011 like a certain team did. That obviously would have got them a higher seed over state title winning teams.

Unfortunately, when you're seeding a current season event, there are zero points given for general program prestige or past season accomplishments--especially past season accomplishments for the individual tournament.  

 

Listen, I love Cathedral and consider them an all-time great program.  And I probably would have B-burg a couple slots lower, but...

 

Cathedral has finished 8th out of 8, 5th out of 8, and tied for 10th out of 12 in the last 3 seasons at the state duals.  And this year they're struggling to be ranked in the top 15 for dual meet rankings for a reason.  They have dual meet holes.  There was zero chance of them getting a top 8 seed based on their season results (even with special post-football considerations), and they rightfully fell to the blind draw for their pool place.  I don't understand all the hubbub at all.  This is a dual meet event which was seeded according to dual meet ability for this season--no other criteria were or should be considered.  

 

If you think the Perry/Penn/Cathedral pool is somehow more loaded than others, you're thinking only of individuals and program prestige--not dual meet ability.

Edited by maligned
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If you think the Perry/Penn/Cathedral pool is somehow more loaded than others, you're thinking only of individuals and program prestige--not dual meet ability.

 

Or...........not thinking at all and just posting stupid stuff is always another option for "InTheCircle".

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On a separate issue: It's definitely possible to maintain seeds and randomness while also separating teams (to a degree) based on geography.  However, there are so many inter-semi-state events now, how do you separate for all the different combinations of in-season repeat opponents?

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On a separate issue: It's definitely possible to maintain seeds and randomness while also separating teams (to a degree) based on geography.  However, there are so many inter-semi-state events now, how do you separate for all the different combinations of in-season repeat opponents?

Are you petitioning for creating some crazy algorithm to determine that?

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Unfortunately, when you're seeding a current season event, there are zero points given for general program prestige or past season accomplishments--especially past season accomplishments for the individual tournament.  

 

Listen, I love Cathedral and consider them an all-time great program.  And I probably would have B-burg a couple slots lower, but...

 

Cathedral has finished 8th out of 8, 5th out of 8, and tied for 10th out of 12 in the last 3 seasons at the state duals.  And this year they're struggling to be ranked in the top 15 for dual meet rankings for a reason.  They have dual meet holes.  There was zero chance of them getting a top 8 seed based on their season results (even with special post-football considerations), and they rightfully fell to the blind draw for their pool place.  I don't understand all the hubbub at all.  This is a dual meet event which was seeded according to dual meet ability for this season--no other criteria were or should be considered.  

 

If you think the Perry/Penn/Cathedral pool is somehow more loaded than others, you're thinking only of individuals and program prestige--not dual meet ability.

 

 

I think the first highlighted comment explains the reasoning for said hubbub!

 

 

 

 

 

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It's called personal opinion, as stated numerous times 2-6 is all interchangeable depending upon how you view the teams. I would be the farm that if Brownsburg, Penn, Mater Dei, Perry Meridian, and Portage all wrestled none of the teams would leave without a loss. It speaks to a great parity amongst the teams in the top 10 in the state.

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Im pretty sure I stated that the committee felt 2-6 were all very close and that very few commons existed other than the individual tourney that had Portage, Perry and Penn. Head to head projections with the lineups given to us by all coaches led to victories by Brownsburg in head to heads. That is why Brownsburg is #2. Brownsburg also had wins over top 15 teams Avon & Carmel.

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