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Leg Ride Stalling Call


MCKAJC

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I have seen a bunch of odd calls this year, here are a few of them....

 

1. Had a kid warned (now for the 2ND time)for working a kid up after taking him down (like they do in college). He was told he was to just let him up and that it was unsportsmanlike for him to be pushing on his opponent all the way up.

 

2. Had a kid take six shots, of which all started in the center of the mat and finished out of bounce. I asked about stalling and was told my kid was shooting him out, so the other kid is not stalling.....this was followed by shut up and sit down (was sitting the whole time).

 

3 We were pretty much told this weekend that if we come to the table (which is the only way to challenge a call, we were told) and can't change the mind of the only ref and person making the call, than we would get an unsportsman call. I thought this was when there was 2 or more ref's. I think ref's are going to have to start taking it easy on the coaches, because they are getting harder and harder to fine, because they can't argue a simple stalling call without a ref taking it personal and giving them an unsportsman call.

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I too have seen that this year...kid on top legs in working and bottom wrestler arms tucked in not advancing...warning was given to top. Wrestler who was actively working...

 

same here. I actually approached the table thinking the ref just made a mistake and meant to call the bottom wrestler, who was not trying to advance, for a stall. Told the ref, "I've never seen that". His reply- "You have now". LOL yeah how very "official".

Edited by MCKAJC
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Every year it seems just like anything else I guess you have some real duds as officials . It seems like some of these guys just call things to call things wow. I saw kids this weekend get call for potentially dangerous for anything and everything they did it seemed ridiculous. But the worst to me is when they are out of position to make huge calls . Stay in position that's what we tell our wrestlers I say refs do the same!!!!!!

And the leg ride stalling call I have seen too . Bottom guy just laying there ???? Top guy called stalling????????

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When I was wrestling I was hit with stalling in middle of running a half. My brother when he was a freshman or sophomore was hit with stalling because he was running legs working for the turn but wasnt strong enough get the turn, but he kept throwing his legs in and trying because that was his offense. The ref atleast told him ahead of time that if he didnt get the turn he needed to stop throwing in the legs or hed get hit with it.

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I'm not a fan of leg riding for the most part so my opinion is there needs to be more stalling warnings on top guy with legs in especially if the top guy is attacking the bottom guys wrist. If the top guys controlling the bottom guys legs hips rest all this weight on him not getting an active turn they diminishing the opportunity for the bottom guy to work up. It is not the bottom guys job to allow the top guy to turn him on the other hand if the bottom guy is bundling up and not making any attempt then they should be hit for stalling. As I heard one official tell a leg rider if you're going to put them in you better use them

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3 We were pretty much told this weekend that if we come to the table (which is the only way to challenge a call, we were told) and can't change the mind of the only ref and person making the call, than we would get an unsportsman call. I thought this was when there was 2 or more ref's. I think ref's are going to have to start taking it easy on the coaches, because they are getting harder and harder to fine, because they can't argue a simple stalling call without a ref taking it personal and giving them an unsportsman call.

If you question a judgment call and not a rule, then you are suppose to get hit with a warning.

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One of my points of contention with the refs on leg riding, is the lack of calls when the top man throws in legs once the top man has reached his feet. This is not an attempt to return the man to the mat, but rather an attempt to draw a potentially dangerous call. Yet refs will allow kids to do this 3 and 4 times without making a call. It's my opinion that each time a wrestler puts legs in when the bottom man has reached his feet it should be called stalling.

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I Rarely see the top guy with legs for stalling. This was probably a good ref who had guts to call stalling. IMO, I see so many guys just put legs in and do nothing. Just makes for a boring match.

I don't necessarily disagree. But it seems like another avenue for inconsistency. I'm sure officials calls will vary wildly on this

Edited by MCKAJC
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They always need new officials. Become one and see how well you would do officiating a match.

I don't disagree with you, but you are from the area that takes pride in officiating.  What I mean is that they have a huge get together at the beginning of the season for coaches and officials.  They do a great job of explaining what rules they are focusing on that coming year, ask if there are any question about calls and generally want to work with the coaches. 

 

Some of the things that are being complained about is refs wanting to be part of the match or outcome.  Like calling double stalling on heavy weights during the first minute (not if they both are backing up, but while they are both working for position), calling escapes while top guys still have control as they roll out of bounce (or bottom guy hasn't established they are free), wave off locked hands that a 2nd ref calls (2nd ref called locked hands and was on the other side of the wrestlers), or call un-sportsman for aggressive clean behavior (working kids up or set-up for shots). 

 

The rules are set-up now that you cannot question a call or make a statement without getting an un-sportsmen call, if the rule is enforced the way it's wrote.  I thought I understood the rule and thought this is how it was set up when there was more than on official, but from the sounds of things it is all the time.  Doesn't seem quite right.  One person can call what they want, they can make it stand without another opinion and can take away a point for anyone questioning their reasoning. Sounds like the government!

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I don't disagree with you, but you are from the area that takes pride in officiating. What I mean is that they have a huge get together at the beginning of the season for coaches and officials. They do a great job of explaining what rules they are focusing on that coming year, ask if there are any question about calls and generally want to work with the coaches.

 

Some of the things that are being complained about is refs wanting to be part of the match or outcome. Like calling double stalling on heavy weights during the first minute (not if they both are backing up, but while they are both working for position), calling escapes while top guys still have control as they roll out of bounce (or bottom guy hasn't established they are free), wave off locked hands that a 2nd ref calls (2nd ref called locked hands and was on the other side of the wrestlers), or call un-sportsman for aggressive clean behavior (working kids up or set-up for shots).

 

The rules are set-up now that you cannot question a call or make a statement without getting an un-sportsmen call, if the rule is enforced the way it's wrote. I thought I understood the rule and thought this is how it was set up when there was more than on official, but from the sounds of things it is all the time. Doesn't seem quite right. One person can call what they want, they can make it stand without another opinion and can take away a point for anyone questioning their reasoning. Sounds like the government!

If you go to the bench to ask a question about a rule there should be no penalty. If you go to the bench and question the refs judgement there should be a misconduct warning (if this happens 3 times it is a point). If you go to the bench and are unsportsmanlike then there should be a penalty.

 

It's really all in how you go to the bench and how often. If a coach goes to the bench every call it's disrupting the match.

 

Now maybe the refs you have are unfairly penalizing coaches or maybe the coaches need to be penalized for what they are doing.

Edited by Rookies03
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If you go to the bench to ask a question about a rule there should be no penalty. If you go to the bench and question the refs judgement there should be a misconduct warning (if this happens 3 times it is a point). If you go to the bench and are unsportsmanlike then there should be a penalty.

 

It's really all in how you go to the bench and how often. If a coach goes to the bench every call it's disrupting the match.

 

Now maybe the refs you have are unfairly penalizing coaches or maybe the coaches need to be penalized for what they are doing.

 

I haven't seen many points taken.  It is the attitude in which it is stressed in the morning meetings.  Gone are the days of friendly bantering.  There are plenty of calls that I see could go either way, but it seems that over the last 10 years refs are getting thin skinned.  If you wait till after the match and get an explanation it doesn't seem to help either.  Seems to be a that's what I called and there is no possible way it could have been another way.  Everything is a teaching moment, that goes for refs, coaches, athletes and parents. 

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It is probably lack of communication that there is so much frustration. It was funny at our conference tournament. A former coach and long time official was a fan on Friday. He was giving an official the business and telling him he needed to get a new hobby. Afterwards, said fan was told he was officiating Saturday without prior notice. He mentioned the other official would not be there if that was the case.

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If you want to see why officials are getting more thin skinned or defensive look at how they are treated by some (not all and not even near the majority) of the coaches.  The enjoyment of the sport can be completely taken out of a match with constant berating coming out of the corner that I assume is a coach trying to get an edge for their wrestlers, well I can safely say I don't have to assume. We have all seen coaches go to the table so wrestlers can catch their breath, their wind back, break the momentum of a kid making a come back, or to try and get into the head of the official as if the coach was a clone of Bobby Knight (who I was a big fan of by they way).   If we want officials to be invisible during a match then we have to make it an environment that they can be and not call attention to them to create an advantage for a wrestler.  If a coach goes to the table they put the official into the spotlight, I am not saying to not go to the table but make sure it is absolutely necessary; is the score wrong, second official identified a missed call or may have had a better view, something that should obviously fixed, or to  even get clarification of why they made a call.  But to just argue is not valid, I don't think I have ever seen a judgement call ever changed.  Don't get me wrong there are some officials who like confrontation and showing a coach who is in charge, and that group is probably growing, but when one coach gives them the fuel to flame the megalomaniac then who is really creating the environment for the other coaches to deal with?

 

I still coach and considered myself to be an acceptable official i.e. fair, not perfect, but fair.  This topic got me thinking about when Coach Thrasher convinced me to get an officials license and helped me get a coaching job (the same year) 35 years ago, how much I loved officiating.  I loved the responsibility, putting my best effort to be in the right position and make the right call, making sure that each wrestler had my best because I knew how much work they had put in.  I didn't really enjoy coaching all that much back then but thought I should give back.  Now it has switched, I enjoy watching the kids at all levels get better and when they succeed (not just win) there is no better feeling than knowing I got to be a part of it.  But it would take a pretty dire need to get me to put a shirt back on.  I even let my license expire so I couldn't do it anymore even under an emergency (which was the only reason i got my license again), there just was no enjoyment in being pulled into the limelight for me and it was happening more and more often.  

 

I still see a lot of very good and patient officials out there who do it for the enjoyment of the sport because it is definitely not for $$$.  I have seen some who are learning, and some who need a lot of help.  I also agree with one of the other forum members that if you understand enough to call out officials for being wrong (and it happens) or especially identify some as not worthy of being officials then you should be willing to put the shirt on and make them better as a group.   In case some of you don't know AD's and coaches control the officials working at the home matches, sometimes it comes down to who is available.  I have had officials fail to show up and had to cancel matches because there were no officials available, so  before you execute an official in a public forum please stop and think if there is anything worse than not having a match because you don't have an official?

Edited by randalllynch
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I officiated for 10 years, and I was definitely trained to watch for potential stalling when a guy is not working to improve when both legs are in.  Coaches often are begging for stalling on the bottom guy in this situation, but it's often the responsibility of the top guy to be genuinely working for something once those legs are in (the bottom guy often can't go anywhere).  Every situation is different, so there's no way to make a judgment about situations mentioned in this thread, but the mechanic I was trained for high school situations was to call a stalemate if the top guy was struggling to improve--and then to warn him for stalling if he got back into the same ride and again was not making progress toward a turn other than grimacing with how hard he's grabbing the guy's wrists.

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Hey I'm all about helping officials get better, unfortunately it usually ends up w/ "Coach Skinner, tell your asst to keep his mouth shut or it's a team point!" If they'd just listen to me trying to help become a better official it'd be so much easier on all of us!!!! 

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