Jump to content
Novice Bat

Rankings for start of season

Recommended Posts

There certainly is much more to these IHSAA cases than what meets the eye.  The rules being followed are the IHSAA's rules (not Yorktown's rules).  The IHSAA held hearings where the affected parties could explain their situation and present their cases in a personal, face to face setting.  The IHSAA appointed "hearing committee" made their ruling on these cases.  Yorktown did not make the final ruling on these cases.

 

It certainly is easy to pass judgement from afar.  I can already see, and read, numerous errors, omissions, and false information that is being passed along for public judgment.   As most people are aware, there are always two sides to every story.

word-salad.png?w=240&h=300

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is yorktown that got their eligibility taken away. If the coach or athletic department were ok with the transfers they just needed to sign the waivers, as mentioned before. Yorktown didnt sign their papers to transfer, thus forcing the kids to try to fight it, and lose. I dont think you need to know the story behind it if you understand how the transfer rule works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach McCormik, you are indeed correct, there are two sides to every story, and I have known you for a very long time, and known you to always be willing to do what you could to help a wrestler when they needed the help. I would like to ask you directly what is the schools side of the story on this situation. I am never sure how the IHSAA works, and with the new open school rules in place for non-student athletes it only muddies the issue even more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW , what message is the Coach sending?? I am going to tell you my OPINION.

 

I personally went thru this with another school system. The Coach's EGO is in

the way. The Coach's feel you are privileged to be coached by me!! We will Win

at all Cost! If you try to leave you will Loose!

These are teachers in our school, role models to kids in their sport. So truly

do they have the best interest in the Student/Athlete? Why hurt the kids career,

these are supposed to be the Best years of there lives!!

I say shame on Yorktown & Northview. You coach's are selfish and acting out like

Bullies with your Power. KARMA will occur!

 

Families of Berkebile & Hiestand , I wish this situation could go away. The IHSAA

is for the Schools, Cox & Faulkins wont change anything. You have to take it Higher.

Or find a lady in Indy by the Name of Curlin a Lawyer against the Schools!!!!!!

 

Thanks , Parent of a similar case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The parents and athlete knew the consequences when they decided to transfer in and out of Yorktown.

IHSAA sets theses rules so kids dont pack up and wrestle at different schools every year!

Just guessing but I would say a majority of the coaches is in favor of this rule, maybe all of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really, then how did a 106 wrestle for Lawerence North as a freshman, Pendleton Heights as a sophomore and Hamilton Heights as a junior? What about many other transfers where eligibility is not lost? Because schools sign the release or is it inconsistency? Doesn't sound like the rules could be known. If a family has a job change or any other life change where getting the student to and from school is no longer possible, for example, that student should not be eligible to play sports? Even at the school district where they live and now attend? I doubt most coaches are in favor of inconsistently applied "rules" or the current disconnect between DoE and IHSAA on these issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really not sure how he wrestled at 3 different schools in 3 years, maybe they move a lot. I believe if parents move then there is reason to appeal, and probably they would win the appeal and should win. I just dont think a kid should be able to choose which school he want to go to based on he doesnt like the program, he might not make varsity, Sectional or Conference is to tough, etc. Once he choose his school as a freshman he should ride it out or pay the consequences. Why didnt the kid just go to school where he lives to begin with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it were only one student transferring out of Yorktown, the case could be made that the kid/parents are making bad decisions for wrong reasons.

 

When 4 students transfer out in 2 years it looks like there may be a larger problem with the school system or athletic program

 

It's a shame that these kids are having to forfeit one of their 4 years of HS eligibility, which could have easily been granted by the school. Again, if it were one kid that they were disallowing then maybe there is reason. But denying all 4, who are moving to different schools? It appears more like politics than having the best interest of student athletes in mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will never trust the word of(at the time) our coaches president who during the STATE tournament holds a kid out causing a FF only to wrestle that same wrestler later in the day. You wonder why our sport struggles with the Ihsaa. People pay to come watch the state finals and get FFs from our own "president".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The parents and athlete knew the consequences when they decided to transfer in and out of Yorktown.

IHSAA sets theses rules so kids dont pack up and wrestle at different schools every year!

Just guessing but I would say a majority of the coaches is in favor of this rule, maybe all of them.

Not me! The rule is set forth for public and not private, so it is not for all.  Plus I find it hard that one of those kids transferring wouldn't have said it was for an academic advantage, which is supposed to be okay.  Seems fishy, and there are several coaches that aren't in the favor of this rule.  If so I would know of at least 10 kids that would have sat out for a year, that have transferred schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ihsaa does not actively police these situations, they are invited into them. We see "it" all around us in our culture and the "it" is the willingness to make others suffer in order to satisfy our own selfish DESIRES. Denying the transfer was the 1st punch that was thrown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting article about the Indiana transfer rule.   Seems like this is a problem for most sports.  I thought interesting that only .48% of transfers aren't granted eligibility.   It appears Indiana rules have a lot of exceptions and are typically easy to get around as compared to other states.   I think we got to go back to the spirit of these transfer rules.  Isn't it in the name of fair competition, the rules are designed to discourage athletes from transferring to schools with better situations and or resources.  

 

Here's my take on this.   I think the two athletes transferring to and then away from Yorktown were probably very aware of the ISHAA transfer rules, and I think they calculated and gambled that they would gain their eligibility back.  Looks like they've probably lost the gamble at this point.    And  its pretty apparent that the reason they transferred was very likely for athletic reasons.  So under the intent of the rule,   no one is getting screwed.   I think where it seems unfair to them is that due to the murkiness of the IHSAA rules, most kids find away to avoid the transfer rule and they didn't get the benefit of the Ambiguity.

 

Also, it looks like Yorktown has benefited from athletic transfers, and if they don't want to play the same game when kids leave.  Im just saying, the next time a kid transfers to Yorktown, the AD from the school he just left shouldn't approve the transfer.  What goes around comes around.

 

 

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2014/08/08/indianas-controversial-high-school-transfer-rules-draw-scrutiny-in-wake-of-eron-gordon-case/13773041/

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think going from Yorktown to Frankton is for athletic reasons. Yorktown is a top 20 team...and Frankton is a lot closer to the bottom 20 than top 20. If Berkebile went to Carroll or Delta I could see it being for athletic reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't understand why this is a problem. It's not like it is college where athletic scholarships are involved. The parents still have to pay for their kids to transfer schools. Plus they're still getting an education, the most important part of "student athlete"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think going from Yorktown to Frankton is for athletic reasons. Yorktown is a top 20 team...and Frankton is a lot closer to the bottom 20 than top 20. If Berkebile went to Carroll or Delta I could see it being for athletic reasons.

Joe,  you probably know back story here.   But Im reading between the lines, and it looks like something went bad with the relationship between Coach and wrestlers.   So I would define not liking a coach an "athletic reason".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting article about the Indiana transfer rule.   Seems like this is a problem for most sports.  I thought interesting that only .48% of transfers aren't granted eligibility.   It appears Indiana rules have a lot of exceptions and are typically easy to get around as compared to other states.   I think we got to go back to the spirit of these transfer rules.  Isn't it in the name of fair competition, the rules are designed to discourage athletes from transferring to schools with better situations and or resources.  

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2014/08/08/indianas-controversial-high-school-transfer-rules-draw-scrutiny-in-wake-of-eron-gordon-case/13773041/

 

That was an excellent read, thank you

 

The 0.48% must be based on Varsity *OR* JV eligibility.  Later in the article it states that

"In 2013-14, nearly 85 percent of all transfers (3,612 of 4,254) were given full eligibility and allowed to play immediately on the varsity level"

 

A couple of other really interesting bits from the article:

 

"That was the most frustrating part of the whole situation," Tom Waites (parent of a transferring athlete) said. "I understand why the (athletic transfer) rule is there, but there is too much power in one man's hands. A school can screw over a 16-year-old kid if they don't sign off. Not every situation is treated equally.

"Each time you lose a student, that's about $5,000 (of funding) that walks out the door," Cox said. "If you lose 50 kids, that's a significant amount of money. It hamstrings a school for what they can offer in services. There's a lot of pressure on superintendents by school boards to maintain full enrollments. You throw the athletic piece into that and it makes it a real battle to make sure we maintain our priority."

 

 

 

 

Is it only Yorktown's wrestling program having these issues (IHSAA violations + multiple transfers) or are other sports affected?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe,  you probably know back story here.   But Im reading between the lines, and it looks like something went bad with the relationship between Coach and wrestlers.   So I would define not liking a coach an "athletic reason".

I won't divulge the finer details, but if Berkebile was to transfer for athletic reasons wouldn't you think he'd go somewhere like Delta or numerous north side of Indy schools? If he was a spiteful kid he'd go to Delta to stick it to Yorktown, especially with Delta's very good team this year. As of now he just went back home to Frankton where his family resides and he went to school for most of his life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't divulge the finer details, but if Berkebile was to transfer for athletic reasons wouldn't you think he'd go somewhere like Delta or numerous north side of Indy schools? If he was a spiteful kid he'd go to Delta to stick it to Yorktown, especially with Delta's very good team this year. As of now he just went back home to Frankton where his family resides and he went to school for most of his life.

 I don't know the finer details.   So I admit I'm speculating.     But looks like the whole transfer thing didn't work out for Berkebile.   The most logical place is to transfer home or Frankton  as in this case.   Say he transferred to another elite program like you suggested.  That would look really suspicious, no way he would get eligilbity waiver as it would appear he was a team hopper.   And again he could be transferring to a place you might not be comfortable with.  Who knows if he would like the coach there.   You tried it once and that didn't work out.    So you go back to Frankton, you don't have to pay out of district fees and at least its something your comfortable with and the commute is much better.       Maybe the reason he's transferring because he was home sick and missed his friends and school he grew up with and figured wrestling for an elite program is really not as important as he thought.  I bet that's at least part of the reason he's going back.  But when you transfer twice in two years, you lose the benefit of the doubt.  He gambled and lost, and he has to pay with a full season of eligibility.

Edited by Wrestling Scholar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong, but any student from any school district can go to any school they want if they enroll there as a freshman. A transfer is only a transfer once they begin high school. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong, but any student from any school district can go to any school they want if they enroll there as a freshman. A transfer is only a transfer once they begin high school. 

For the MOST part you are correct.

 

The IHSAA has looked into undue influence at the middle school level including the new past link rule. This is where a youth, AAU, etc coach ends up somewhere and kids start matriculating there. I have also seen where some football coaches were dinged because they were at a middle school game in which none of their feeders were participating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have lost a couple of kids in the 10 years ive been coaching. With a school our size it really hurts! To me it's all about where the kid is comfortable. If he wants to wrestle somewhere else so be it. Ive seen parents move kids time and time again to gain a advantage but who cares? Its high school wrestling people...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think a bad relationship with a coach is an athletic problem but a social and well being issue.Coaches have a huge influence on athletes , good and bad.  There are many reasons families move their kids from one school to the next and if that student happens to be an athlete , that student should not be punished because of it. The schools exist  for the students . I have seen athletes where the only positive thing in their life was the sport they are a part of . They move and lose eligibility and now they find something more destructive to do or a family just does not like a school for what ever reason, and pull their kid out and put them in another school and kid does not want to leave but is a minor and has no say so. They should not be punished. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.