No love for the north

[AJ]

I think this begs a larger question.  Why do we need an ISWA folkstyle state for high school wrestlers?  Especially two weeks after IHSAA state.

 

Imop, there is a major benefit to having ISWA folkstyle state for pee-wee through cadet (meaning cadets not in hs).  But I don't see the benefit for hs wrestlers.  

 

I know there are some reasons for ISWA folkstyle state for hs kids like the triple crown, revenue and qualifying for folkstyle nationals.  But imop those aren't beneficial enough to keep us from starting freestyle immediately the week after IHSAA state.

 

Why cant we just have both at the same time?  Clubs can choose to either host a freestyle or folkstyle event.  Some high schoolers might go to these early freestyle events to qualify for state and still be able to focus on a spring sport.  This could possibly allow kids to choose what type of wrestling they wanted attend. This could atleast give everyone the option of wrestling freestyle, especially the very young kids who still play baseball , soccer and every other sport during the spring and summer. 

 

I believe folkstyle is very important, and it should be treated as important.  We do need to find a good compromise because we should mot be killing one style of wrestling to benefit the other.

[IntegratedCarp]

Look, not every agrees on this. But folk style already gets plenty of attention. Just my opinion, but after high school season I think we should just focus on fs. I say get rid of folk style state for high school wrestlers.

[warsawwrestling]

This is why ISWA cares about staying in the Folkstyle High School business.

 

2015 ISWA Folkstyle state

Cadet  466 entries

Junior  409 entries

 

2014 ISWA Folkstyle state

Cadet 524 entries

Junior 376 entries

 

2014 ISWA Freestyle State

Total  787 entries

Edited April 23, 2015 by warsawwrestling

[WaltHarris]

This is why ISWA cares about staying in the Folkstyle High School business.

 

2015 ISWA Folkstyle state

Cadet  466 entries

Junior  409 entries

 

2014 ISWA Folkstyle state

Cadet 524 entries

Junior 376 entries

 

2014 ISWA Freestyle State

Total  787 entries

Pretty much what I thought too.  It's the revenues ISWA folkstyle state generates.  I think it just comes back to the larger issue.  USAW forced ISWA to have folkstyle state.  In my estimation, that event gutted freestyle in Indiana (and other states).  Now USAW realizes they have severely impaired their freestyle pipeline because the next generation has done almost nothing but wrestle folkstyle.   USAW is now asking ISWA and many other states to improve participation in freestyle, but it's like putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Personally, I would eliminate ISWA folkstyle state for high schoolers.  I think and hope that would assist with freestyle participation.  But this is really all just a guessing game.

[AJ]

We have to admit that folkstyle will continue to grow in popularity.  The NCAA championships and the BIG 10 Championships have been growing in popularity.  The yearly showcase of folkstyle wrestling is what these young kids see.  The television ratings are going up each year. the fact that freestyle and greco roman wrestling is only on the main stage every 4 years, and has so few wrestlers and weight classes, is something that will not keep the young wrestlers focus.  Many young wrestlers fall in love with folkstyle years before they ever get to experience the olympics. Even high school national events have srpassed freestyle.  Freestyle has Fargo as its main event.  Folkstyle now has Flo, Super 32 and NHSCA Championships.  These 3  events allow folkstyle only wrestlers to receive national attention and recruitment attention from colleges. 

 

I know that freestyle helps with folkstyle, and all wrestling styles help create a well balanced wrestler.  The problem though now lies with folkstyle can be trained and wrestled all year round. Wrestlers are now choosing what style to wrestle, and they are choosing folkstyle.

[Y2CJ41]

I think the smarter move would be to extend the freestyle season a couple weeks, even have state after central regionals. That would get away from things like prom and give kids the opportunity to still hit up the national level events while also going to a few local ones too.

 

I like folkstyle state for cadets and juniors as it is a good event for JV kids or incoming freshmen to test the waters. It also gives some kids a little redemption if their season didn't end the way they wanted it to.

[WaltHarris]

We have to admit that folkstyle will continue to grow in popularity.  The NCAA championships and the BIG 10 Championships have been growing in popularity.  The yearly showcase of folkstyle wrestling is what these young kids see.  The television ratings are going up each year. the fact that freestyle and greco roman wrestling is only on the main stage every 4 years, and has so few wrestlers and weight classes, is something that will not keep the young wrestlers focus.  Many young wrestlers fall in love with folkstyle years before they ever get to experience the olympics. Even high school national events have srpassed freestyle.  Freestyle has Fargo as its main event.  Folkstyle now has Flo, Super 32 and NHSCA Championships.  These 3  events allow folkstyle only wrestlers to receive national attention and recruitment attention from colleges. 

 

I know that freestyle helps with folkstyle, and all wrestling styles help create a well balanced wrestler.  The problem though now lies with folkstyle can be trained and wrestled all year round. Wrestlers are now choosing what style to wrestle, and they are choosing folkstyle.

Much of what you are stating is accurate from a certain perspective.  I would slightly disagree with the suggestion that "Wrestlers are now choosing what style to wrestle, and they are choosing folkstyle."

 

Imop, what actually occurred was many adults that were ignorant/scared/uneducated about freestyle complained about freestyle for years.  Then when Nuway, Flo, et. al. came around, it was like a loophole was created in the wrestling 'system' that had existed for decades.  Basically, the adults who ignorantly saw freestyle has some form of sissified European/Asian wrestling didn't ever have to have their kid wrestle freestyle again.  Now we have a whole generation of kids who were taught by their adult parents that freestyle=bad and are now conditioned as teenagers to ignore or marginalize it.  

 

I'm as red, white and blue of a traditionalist American as they come.  But the fact is going back for decades the US wrestling community has had a faction of ugly Americans who erroneously believe that wrestling freestyle will create some form of European socialism to take over American high school wrestling and give birth to the anti-Christ.  Ok, I'm joking around a bit.  But those of you who have been around for decades and seen all this know what I'm referring to.  

[Ds Dad]

I can tell you from experience that parents are afraid of freestyle and Greco. It's not something that started recently either. I wrestled in the late '80s. My mom had to let me wrestle freestyle because it was all we had for "club" wrestling back then, but she absolutely would not allow me to enter a Greco tournament because she didn't want me injured. (hate that I missed out on that fun) Now fast forward to my son we got him into all styles of wrestling as soon as he was allowed. He loves freestyle and Greco season more than he does high school season. It is a mind set that has to be started in the home with the parents allowing their kids to wrestle. If you ask college coaches wouldn't most say they want kids with backgrounds in all three styles? Here would be an interesting stat to pull up, find out what the percentage of kids wrestling in D1 schools wrestled only folkstyle. We may or may not be surprised as parents how many kids are not going to cut the mustard, so to speak, by not experiencing the international styles.

[MCKAJC]

I've not read all of the posts in this thread so pardon if I'm being redundant. But qualifying for freestyle state seems to be a turn off for many. So greater numbers is your goal wouldn't it be wise to find ways to make it easier to participate instead of creating more challenges?? I'm don't know seems real simple.

[MattM]

But qualifying for freestyle state seems to be a turn off for many.

.

Actually the turn off seems to be attending local tournaments in general. The qualification system was attempting to help with that issue though it has been meet with mixed reviews. Most of the complaints seem to be focused on why they done want to go to local events or feel they can't make it to local events. So the question is, is not through qualification, how do we get more participation at these local freestyle events? Because at this rate most clubs are having a hard time justifying hosting the events and thus fewer are existing within a reasonable distance of people.

 

Is it due to a lack of interests in freestyle and greco among athletes and clubs statewide. If so then how do we begin to build this back up now that the rules/scoring seem to be more acceptable compared to the past. More promoting and push by the state towards the clubs, academies, and HS/MS coaches? Extending or moving the start/end of the freestyle and greco season to make it seem more useful to those just getting involved in the sport?

 

Is it due to lack of "quality" opponents at these event. If so then how do you attract those athletes. Does the event structure need to change (maybe pool competition to increase matches you get or even just an open meet concept rather than actual brackets)? Would Sunday instead of Saturday improve the chances of those athletes attending? Does turning off the TrackWrestling Matrix help or would not knowing numbers scare people off too?

 

Is it due to too many bad experiences at previous tournaments such as long days, extreme wait times, organization issues, etc. If so how do we reinvent this system to work better? Have a group of traveling tournament organizers who ensure things run smoothly? Have staggered start times for each age group so everyone isn't packed in the gym at once with a limited number of seats and mats avalable?

 

Is it due to something else?

 

I'm guessing it's actually a combination of these things depending on who you are. I'm also guessing the qualification system somewhat fixes itself if we did find a workable solution to many of these issues. But, one things for sure the less events we have the harder it is to get all levels of wrestlers the quality mat time in these styles in order to develop a greater depth of talent. I'm guessing other state organizations with top or rapidly growing Freestlye and Greco systems are also going through similar issues. Is there ways learn some new strategies that have worked for them, as well as, ideas to avoid? Is there anything we can take away from other sports organizations that focus on individual competition I n how thwy have improve on issues with their event organization?

Edited April 25, 2015 by MattM