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Evansville Semi State


frigginhurts

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Glad to see this topic is getting over the officiating at Evansville. These guys go out there and Ref for the love of the kids and the sport (certainly can't be for the money). I challenge any of you ref haters to go out there and give it a try. They are human, they may make mistakes just like you and I but they are there for your team and your kid. Just stop and think for a minute about how you would feel if they didn't show up for a match on Senior Night. You would be wishing that they were there. I once remember an old, out of shape guy that reffed on the South Side of Indy. He was reffing for the love of the kids and the sport. He wore thick, black horned rimmed glasses and had trouble getting up and down on the mat to see a fall or back points but he was there for the love of the sport and your kids. What was pitiful was what I was hearing from some of the parents in the stands that day and I was cheering for the same team. Kind of made me ashamed to be part of that team though not the Coaches. I don't in any way disagree with a Coach arguing with a Ref (that is part of their job) but when you come on here and ridicule/trash Ref's for what they do, what are you teaching your child? Done venting....You Ref's and Coaches Rock.

I agree that we need refs. But I also think that the people that say if you have a problem with it then you should try it. Are you kidding me? I shouldn't be out there for the same reason they shouldn't. No experience. I have to say this if I saw a kid go down like Todrank I would have at least shown some remorse for my horrible decision. Also I guess there is another group that is to blame and that the ihsaa. We have refs that got an 80% on an open book test, that have been doing this for 2 or 3 years and have no business being on a semi state match while some of the best refs sit on the sideline or up in the stands. People need to understand that this whole we need to give everyone a chance theory has been tested and it failed. I say the best refs ref come semi state and state enough said. Do you understand that a lot of people do things with the best of intentions but they shouldn't be doing it at all. Come on man. Like you said these are our kids and that is why I feel it is necessary to say something. Their kids playing a sport not professional athletes. So please error in the side of caution.

Edited by In The Bleachers
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I agree that we need refs. But I also think that the people that say if you have a problem with it then you should try it. Are you kidding me? I shouldn't be out there for the same reason they shouldn't. No experience. I have to say this if I saw a kid go down like Todrank I would have at least shown some remorse for my horrible decision. Also I guess there is another group that is to blame and that the ihsaa. We have refs that got an 80% on an open book test, that have been doing this for 2 or 3 years and have no business being on a semi state match while some of the best refs sit on the sideline or up in the stands. People need to understand that this whole we need to give everyone a chance theory has been tested and it failed. I say the best refs ref come semi state and state enough said. Do you understand that a lot of people do things with the best of intentions but they shouldn't be doing it at all. Come on man. Like you said these are our kids and that is why I feel it is necessary to say something. Their kids playing a sport not professional athletes. So please error in the side of caution.

 

To add to that, they are kids playing a sport, but at a very high level (not quite professional level, but a far cry from beginner). I agree that the refs should be chosen more like what happens in professional sports. It is an honor to work the most important games and that honor is reserved for the best. The refs are rated throughout the season (as we all are at work or play) and they earn the right to work under the lights. If you really want the quality of refereeing to improve then there needs to be an incentive for improvement. That is how humans are wired. We respond to rewards. If it works that way for the athletes (they have to earn their way to the mat), why not for the refs too?

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They should also have to pass a physical.  Too many out of shape refs out there.  Some even laugh about it.  When they are yelled at to get down on the mat and look for the fall or get in position for near fall, they laugh and say "I'm too old for that."  If you are admittedly too old or out of shape to do an everyday task such as bending over, you should not be a licensed ref in any sport ever.  And to stand there and laugh about it is a shame.

 

Also rdrodd1, if you were so glad to see the ref topic over why did you bring it back up?

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I am not defending the officiating this year, but I accept it, because kids I coach (to include my son) had the opportunity to wrestle this year!

 

 I originally only officiated in emergencies or so events would not get cancelled and I got a lot of calls.  I did this for three years and the number of matches I worked kept growing.  I did not officiate this year for several reasons, but mostly to be with my son for his senior year, I let people know last year I would most likely not be available and I still got a lot of calls and requests to work events.  I did not renew my license this year just so I would not accept matches out of guilt for kids not being able to wrestle or having events last all day since only 2 mats were used instead of 3.   All this attention was not because I was good but because the schools couldn't find any officials for their events.  

 

If there are not enough officials with our current group of Great/Good/Indifferent/Inexperienced/Bad officials how can we place additional limitations or regulations on who deserves to do what events? There were 12 officials at Evansville (guessing the other 3 were the same), and as always some officials will be better than others, but how do we know these are not the best 48 available?   You may think that is a sad state of affairs, but unless we as community start growing the pool of officials this could be the standards our matches will see for a long time.  

 

There also should be some perspective added to the view of who is qualified.  At some point in time each official will have the first sectional, regional, semi-state, or state when would our community like that to happen?  Two, three, five, ten years experience what if there are not 48 officials with 10 years experience, would you prefer to cancel a semi-state or use what we have?

 

A question I would pose to people is would you cancel a wrestling event before you would use a less experienced official or one you know to be lacking skills?  Why do you think the same officials are scheduled for your local events each year?   Ask yourself these questions at the beginning of the season when excitement is high and kids are ready to go, not when the season is over.

 

Someone already said they disagree with the argument that they should put a striped shirt on and grab a whistle, well if not you then who?

 

And yes it looks like I will get my license again next year, but I am not looking for any events.  : )

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I am not defending the officiating this year, but I accept it, because kids I coach (to include my son) had the opportunity to wrestle this year!

 

 I originally only officiated in emergencies or so events would not get cancelled and I got a lot of calls.  I did this for three years and the number of matches I worked kept growing.  I did not officiate this year for several reasons, but mostly to be with my son for his senior year, I let people know last year I would most likely not be available and I still got a lot of calls and requests to work events.  I did not renew my license this year just so I would not accept matches out of guilt for kids not being able to wrestle or having events last all day since only 2 mats were used instead of 3.   All this attention was not because I was good but because the schools couldn't find any officials for their events.  

 

If there are not enough officials with our current group of Great/Good/Indifferent/Inexperienced/Bad officials how can we place additional limitations or regulations on who deserves to do what events? There were 12 officials at Evansville (guessing the other 3 were the same), and as always some officials will be better than others, but how do we know these are not the best 48 available?   You may think that is a sad state of affairs, but unless we as community start growing the pool of officials this could be the standards our matches will see for a long time.  

 

There also should be some perspective added to the view of who is qualified.  At some point in time each official will have the first sectional, regional, semi-state, or state when would our community like that to happen?  Two, three, five, ten years experience what if there are not 48 officials with 10 years experience, would you prefer to cancel a semi-state or use what we have?

 

A question I would pose to people is would you cancel a wrestling event before you would use a less experienced official or one you know to be lacking skills?  Why do you think the same officials are scheduled for your local events each year?   Ask yourself these questions at the beginning of the season when excitement is high and kids are ready to go, not when the season is over.

 

Someone already said they disagree with the argument that they should put a striped shirt on and grab a whistle, well if not you then who?

 

And yes it looks like I will get my license again next year, but I am not looking for any events.  : )

If you have 10 years of experience and you are still that bad there is a serious problem with you.  And it shouldn't take 10 years to figure it out.  There we're some refs at sectionals that flat out did not know the rules.  You might say "oh it's only sectionals" but IT MATTERS.  It effects each wrestler's future throughout the tournament.  It could mean the difference from regional qualifier to state qualifier.

 

If there is a written exam that is OPEN BOOK and you get an 80% on it, you should not get your license.  You should know 80% of the rules without having to use the book. It is your job.  You should also be able to do 5 sit-ups and be able to bend over.

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If you have 10 years of experience and you are still that bad there is a serious problem with you.  And it shouldn't take 10 years to figure it out.  There we're some refs at sectionals that flat out did not know the rules.  You might say "oh it's only sectionals" but IT MATTERS.  It effects each wrestler's future throughout the tournament.  It could mean the difference from regional qualifier to state qualifier.

 

If there is a written exam that is OPEN BOOK and you get an 80% on it, you should not get your license.  You should know 80% of the rules without having to use the book. It is your job.  You should also be able to do 5 sit-ups and be able to bend over.

 I agree with you, not defending, but I know the reason why these things are happening.  Recruit your kids graduating to get their licenses, increase the numbers available, hire these new officials for local events and the quality will improve.

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I'm not defending an 80%, but the questions on the tests aren't designed to be easy. If you don't read very carefully you could easily get tripped up and miss questions even though you know the rule. I'm a former baseball official so I've taken the tests. Been a long time though!

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Just a few thoughts before I move on to state

 

Miranda came up big against Hunt at 106, great match

 

AJ Dixon was a nice surprise

 

Bethel was HUGE although I did want to see the Lee vs. Lee matchup.

 

Todrank - guy has a lot of energy but doesn't seem to use it very well.   sure wish he would go after lee and not back up the entire match.

 

Luigs gave Konrath a great match, almost pulled it off.

 

still not sure what happened in Johnson Molloy match

 

Elmore stepped it up big time

 

AVON stepped it up and won a lot of critical matches.   not sure what the tiebreaker criteria is .

 

Edited by MommaVic
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It's 80% to obtain your license. 90% to advance in the tournament series. Getting less than 98% hurts your overall rating as an official which can prevent an official from moving up a level.

It's actually 75% to get your license, and you only have to take the test once in your life if you don't apply to work the tournament series. If, however, you apply to work the tournament series, you must take the test every year and score at least 90% :)

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All I am saying is that if you go to the IHSAA web site & click on the EVV SS results, under the team scores it shows a #1 in front of both Avon & EMD.

 

If Avon was declared the winner then that is cool by me, they were very impressive.

I went back to the results page today & it has been changed. There is now an asterisk by Avon which states "Avon declared champion on tie-breaking rules".

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I went back to the results page today & it has been changed. There is now an asterisk by Avon which states "Avon declared champion on tie-breaking rules".

 

http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/boys%20sports/wrestling/2014-15/201415EvansvilleReitzSemiState.pdf

 

That works, but can anyone proide a reference to the individual tournament tie-breaker criteria so it can be used in case of a tie at later tournaments?  All I have been able to find from my search yesterday was the tie-breaker criteria for dual meets and team dual tournaments. 

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The asterisk puts the exclamation point of a bad day for Mater Dei. Schaefer could have been Lemony Snickets, because it was a series of unfortunate events.

 

I half way expected Bad News Barrett to drop down from the ceiling declaring "Mater Dei, I'm afraid I have some bad news!"

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Trophy Plate in Avon , E-Ville can come to Avon and try to get half of it if they like.

Dang it , E-Ville isn't coming to Avon after all . SMH.... Had the popcorn already popping for everyone , signs pointing where the plate was "it's this way" ----->. the Trophy plate in the Avon Wrestling Room . LOL

Edited by TeamGarcia
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It looks like the Mooresville Regional had 8 Champions. 3 qualified for state at 152, 170, 182, 220 and 285. 2 qualified at 106, 113, 120, 160 and 195. 1 qualified at 126. Shut out at 132, 138 and 145. Over all the Mooresville Regional dominated the Evansville SS. 

So the Mooresville Regional had 8 champs & 26 qualifiers. That is impressive.

 

The Castle Regional had 4 champs & 17 qualifiers. (And this is the worst year I can remember the Castle Regional having since the SS moved to E'ville. I know that one year the Castle Regional got 29 qualifiers thru the EVV SS. I don't remember the # of champs.)

 

That only leaves 2 champs & 13 qualifiers from the other two regionals.

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26 is impressive!  I count 18 Castle Regional State qualifiers:

 

MD 6

Castle 3

Mt Vernon 3

Reitz 2

Central 1

Tecumseh 1

Gibson Southern 1

N. Posey 1

You are correct sir, I missed LaMar from Castle the first time thru.

 

And by my count, 7 of the 8 champs from the Mooresville Regional came from the Avon Sectional. Incredibly impressive.

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