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Evansville Semi State


frigginhurts

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Just a few thoughts before I move on to state

 

Miranda came up big against Hunt at 106, great match

 

AJ Dixon was a nice surprise

 

Bethel was HUGE although I did want to see the Lee vs. Lee matchup.

 

Todrank - guy has a lot of energy but doesn't seem to use it very well.   sure wish he would go after lee and not back up the entire match.

 

Luigs gave Konrath a great match, almost pulled it off.

 

still not sure what happened in Johnson Molloy match

 

Elmore stepped it up big time

 

AVON stepped it up and won a lot of critical matches.   not sure what the tiebreaker criteria is .

  

I thought many of the refs at the Evansville semi-state seemed "lost" & unsure of the rules/what calls to make. I saw a lot of faces I didn't recognize, so I am guessing this was the first time at Semi-State for some of these guys.

Brownsburg! Wow - Impressed with these young studs & just as I was thinking to myself "what the heck happened at Brownsburg", I caught a glimpse of the coach and had my "aha" moment - with Schneider @ the helm this team will just continue to improve and impress.

Luigs held his own with Konrath & impressed the hell out of me - great top wrestler & he's just a sophomore!!!

Nick Lee proved that he should have been a "Ford Tough Lock" just like his brother Joe.... and Austin Bethel - well, he just showed Evansville what happens when you underestimate someone - and again - just a sophomore!!!! Bethel v B Lee was so exciting - I did feel a bit bad for B Lee, as someone earlier said, "the crowd went wild" - but everyone loves the underdog!!!!

AJ Dixon - nice surprise! Great showing from him @ semi-state and he had a great fan base!

Avon - had a great showing & rumor has it they have some incoming freshman studs, so I'm sure we will be seeing a lot of them in the coming years!

Johnson and Stevenson both defaulting in heated matches. My prayers for both of these seniors - want to see them both healthy & competing @ State!

Yes, Luigs is a Soph. but Konrath is as well. Konrath was obviously babying his leg that everyone was grabbing, including Luigs. Not saying in any way that I don't understand why the leg was being grabbed. In almost every situation it was a good defense to the countless shots Konrath got off on Luigs. However, I have watched Konrath for years and that defense wouldn't have stopped him unless he were babying the leg. I also would like to say that Luigs in no way ever looked as if he might score an offensive point. This is not even bringing to light that Konrath scored an obvious two points that was inexplicably taken away by the ref. Never the less, this was not a close match. Konrath controlled it like a smart wrestler, protecting an injury against a formidable opponent.

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Yes, Luigs is a Soph. but Konrath is as well. Konrath was obviously babying his leg that everyone was grabbing, including Luigs. Not saying in any way that I don't understand why the leg was being grabbed. In almost every situation it was a good defense to the countless shots Konrath got off on Luigs. However, I have watched Konrath for years and that defense wouldn't have stopped him unless he were babying the leg. I also would like to say that Luigs in no way ever looked as if he might score an offensive point. This is not even bringing to light that Konrath scored an obvious two points that was inexplicably taken away by the ref. Never the less, this was not a close match. Konrath controlled it like a smart wrestler, protecting an injury against a formidable opponent.

Meh - we'll agree to disagree.  

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I think the crowd went wild in the B.Lee/Bethel match not only because Bethel was the underdog, but because it was disappointing to see Lee call his own injury time when he was flattened out on the mat.

 

Avon won on criteria that went back to the locked hands call on Bassemier in his ticket round match with Elmore.

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He wasn't DQ'd. He wouldn't have been on podium if he had been DQ'd.

That's good to hear, but does anyone know what the injury was? If he was diagnosed with a concussion then it might be difficult to get him cleared to compete by Friday.

 

Again I have no idea & am just curious. It will be a real shame if he is unable to compete.

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I think the crowd went wild in the B.Lee/Bethel match not only because Bethel was the underdog, but because it was disappointing to see Lee call his own injury time when he was flattened out on the mat.

 

Avon won on criteria that went back to the locked hands call on Bassemier in his ticket round match with Elmore.

I've heard there is no criteria for this and MD did in fact tie with Avon. They are getting a plaque mailed to them. The IHSAA site shows them as tying as well. Edited by markio
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I've heard there is no criteria for this and MD did in fact tie with Avon. They are getting a plaque mailed to them. The IHSAA site shows them as tying as well.

 

That could easily be, that is just what I was told from one of the Avon coaches as we were leaving.

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Can anyone tell me why Avon was never announced as the winner at Semi State? I have never been to a Tournament where the winner was not announced. Has anyone else seen this before? Avon Coaches had to go to the head table to ask to find out. Seems odd.....

Since it was a close race that ended in a tie the tournament director was likely attempting to double checking all of the settings, advancements, scoring to ensure the final results were accurate. Then also double checking if there was a criteria in place for determining the out right winner in the event of a tie score. That would seem to take a little time to figure out and then deduce if the title was actually shared or not. That may have resulted in the delay which caused the winner to not be officially announced through the arena while most of the crowd was still present.

Edited by MattM
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Why not announce the winner?? I understand all the checking. Still seems odd Avon was not announced as the winner??

As MattM said, they were probably trying to determine the winner.

 

Anyway according to the IHSAA official results, Avon & MD tied.

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The Todrank and Lee match could have had a little better officiating. Once a wrestling is on top of their head and completely straight up and down, the match should be stopped immediately. Lee seems to be a pretty aggressive wrestler and I don't think he did it with any harm. He came down quick with that and Todranks neck rolled up and looked like a WWE move for a second or two. The ref should have stopped it a few seconds before that even happened, but hopefully the refs learn from that mistake. I don't think there was really anything Todrank could do to keep the match close as Lee was pretty dominating. Todrank does have quite a bit of energy and after the match lets just say he wasn't too pleased with the MD crowd.

 

Being my first time down to the Evansville Semi-State, I was rather impressed. The wrestling was good, even though I missed the upset of the day with Bethel getting the W over B. Lee. A lot of good matches that went back and forth. Elmore and Bassmeir was a good one to watch . Avon was impressive as well as the amount of Jennings County wrestlers in attendance. MD is solid as usual. The venue was awesome; as the seats are much more comfortable then the bleachers are New Castle. 

 

It was tough watching the 170 lb final with Stevenson going down in the middle of a good match. Us from Whiteland hope all the best for him and a speedy recovery. 

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Avon won on criteria. Still must be hard to want to say Avon won in Evansville.

There is no set tie-breaker criteria available for individually scores tournaments that I can find in the NFHS Wrestling Rule Book. It may exist (long document) but I am unable to locate it. The book do list the tie-breaker criteria listed for dual meets and team dual tournaments, but not individually scored tournaments.

 

If a tie-breaker does not exist in the NFHS Rule Book I believe it would need to be in the IHSAA by-laws to be official. Their may well have been a criteria to follow when the IHSAA was trying to determine their dual tournament field based on sectional tournament scoring, but if that did exist who knows if the IHSAA have the forsight to continue it on after they ended the dual tournament.

 

Though it's somewhat dated reference, in 1958 the IHSAA awarded the state championship to both Broad Ripple and Richmond due to a tie score. Same situation in 1934 with Bloomington and East Chicago Roosevelt. The IHSAA may have updated criteria since then but this shows a tie isn't unprecedented. 

 

If no tie-breaker criteria is available by the NFHS or IHSAA then both team, by virtue of the tie score of 88.0, would be co-champions of the semi-state.  If this is indeed the case, I'm sure Coach Blevins and Coach Schaefer would have no issue sharing in this honor.

Edited by MattM
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If all of that is correct, yes both coaches would have no issue sharing. Avon was told the Team Penalty Point against EDM made Avon the winner. 

According to TrackWrestling one team penalty point was deducted from EMD scores taking them from 89 points to 88 points.  This caused the final team standing of Avon 88.0 and EMD 88.0 which is what was submitted to the IHSAA.  If no critera exists involving a individual tounament scoring tie being determined by such methods as the deduction of a penalty point, then it would look as it the results remain as listed Avon 88.0 to EMD 88.0.  In this case both teams would be crowned co-champions of the Evansville semi-state.  Again, I can not find any actual individual tournament tie-breaker criteria at this point, but it may infact exist someplace.

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I have attended and coached at duals all across the nation. Every tourney that I have been involved with has tie breaking criteria. The first criteria is always team misconduct points. If two teams have the same score and one team has a misconduct and one teams doesn't the team without the misconduct wins.

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I have attended and coached at duals all across the nation. Every tourney that I have been involved with has tie breaking criteria. The first criteria is always team misconduct points. If two teams have the same score and one team has a misconduct and one teams doesn't the team without the misconduct wins.

The rule book says that there is not ties in duals. There is a list of tie breakers for duals. There is not a list to break ties in the rule book for individual tournaments. 

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Avon got the plate for the trophy. That's all I know for sure.

All I am saying is that if you go to the IHSAA web site & click on the EVV SS results, under the team scores it shows a #1 in front of both Avon & EMD.

 

If Avon was declared the winner then that is cool by me, they were very impressive.

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Back when there was the IHSAA team state tournament there was a tie at the Southridge sectional. This was when the winner went on to the team regional. Both teams were officially sectional champions but they did have way to determine which team advanced to the team regional.

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Glad to see this topic is getting over the officiating at Evansville.  These guys go out there and Ref for the love of the kids and the sport (certainly can't be for the money). I challenge any of you ref haters to go out there and give it a try.  They are human, they may make mistakes just like you and I but they are there for your team and your kid.  Just stop and think for a minute about how you would feel if they didn't show up for a match on Senior Night.  You would be wishing that they were there.  I once remember an old, out of shape guy that reffed on the South Side of Indy.  He was reffing for the love of the kids and the sport.  He wore thick, black horned rimmed glasses and had trouble getting up and down on the mat to see a fall or back points but he was there for the love of the sport and your kids.  What was pitiful was what I was hearing from some of the parents in the stands that day and I was cheering for the same team.  Kind of made me ashamed to be part of that team though not the Coaches.   I don't in any way disagree with a Coach arguing with a Ref (that is part of their job) but when you come on here and ridicule/trash Ref's for what they do, what are you teaching your child?  Done venting....You Ref's and Coaches Rock.    

Edited by rdrodd1
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