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How would class wrestling work in Indiana?


decbell1

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154 2A schools produced 186 state qualifiers

 

154 1A schools produced 38 state qualifiers

 

One of these days the 1A coaches are going to learn that if they just start working harder, they will start having success. Once that happens, watch out!!!

So let me see...I just watched Mater Dei and Danville stand toe to to with Avon and other "Large School" and earn their shots at the State Tourney....But I am supposed to believe we need to divide these poor down trodden programs into their own subsections to give them a fair shot...

 

ReallY?????????

You realize that Danville is a 2A school in a two class system.

Most points scored by a 1A school: 23 by Adams Central, good for 8th place

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So where is the number breakdown of how many total students there are in each class? (Not wrestlers, total students of the school, since every student is a potential wrestler) You get that then you might have some real data. A school with 1000 kids has a better chance at producing a state qualifier over a school with 500 kids but that doesn't mean they have a better percentage.

Edited by Madtownxwrestler
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So where is the number breakdown of how many total students there are in each class? You get that then you might have some real data. A school with 1000 kids has a better chance at producing a state qualifier over a school with 500 kids but that doesn't mean they have a better percentage.

Isn't that a reason to class sports if big schools are all better than small schools?

 

Or are you of the thinking that you don't care that small schools struggle?

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154 2A schools produced 186 state qualifiers

 

154 1A schools produced 38 state qualifiers

 

 

looks to be about what we should expect

 

 

One of these days the 1A coaches are going to learn that if they just start working harder, they will start having success. Once that happens, watch out!!!

 

 

this does work, Y2 is proof of that....the problem is getting these coaches to stay at these programs...Y2 is also proof of that

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If you read Hooks book he illustrates this type of upstart with the Mater Dei program. They took many lumps along the way, but they kept going and going. Small successes led to bigger ones and so on and so on...the next thing you know they got a couple signature wins and the community started supporting the team.

Or we could just skip the years of hard work and dedication (see Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc.) and just add more classes and state qualifiers.

I prefer the Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc. route.

 

No one said it was easy.

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and what about the B team wrestlers at some of the successful programs(big and small) that are really good but are overshadowed by their top ranked teammate ?  I propose a 2 class 5 championship series to make it fair and gets all the good wrestlers noticed. 

 

3 champions for 2A and 1 for 1A (based on school population) and 1 for JV that are better than alot of varsity from other programs....should get about everyone since exposure seems to be the problem...

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If you read Hooks book he illustrates this type of upstart with the Mater Dei program. They took many lumps along the way, but they kept going and going. Small successes led to bigger ones and so on and so on...the next thing you know they got a couple signature wins and the community started supporting the team.

Or we could just skip the years of hard work and dedication (see Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc.) and just add more classes and state qualifiers.

I prefer the Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc. route.

 

No one said it was easy.

Why can you only name one of 150 teams that has figured this out?  Shouldn't others have figured this "hard work" formula out by now?

 

FYI, Oak Hill had zero state qualifiers, South Adams 1. Not exactly on the same level as the others.

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and what about the B team wrestlers at some of the successful programs(big and small) that are really good but are overshadowed by their top ranked teammate ?  I propose a 2 class 5 championship series to make it fair and gets all the good wrestlers noticed. 

 

3 champions for 2A and 1 for 1A (based on school population) and 1 for JV that are better than alot of varsity from other programs....should get about everyone since exposure seems to be the problem...

Great point.

 

A varsity wrestler at Penn has essentially already had to win a sectional-like tournament just to make varsity.

 

We should class Penn High School Sports ( and Carmel and Warren and BD, etc) because it's just not fair to the kids who don't make varsity!

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looks to be about what we should expect

 

 

this does work, Y2 is proof of that....the problem is getting these coaches to stay at these programs...Y2 is also proof of that

This formula of staying at one school for 10-15 years and building a program is too much work for most people.

 

All you have to do is go to the nearest successful program and ride their coat tails...it is much easier.

Why can you only name one of 150 teams that has figured this out?  Shouldn't others have figured this "hard work" formula out by now?

 

FYI, Oak Hill had zero state qualifiers, South Adams 1. Not exactly on the same level as the others.

Ask the South Adams Studs if they are not on the same level as the others.

 

I believe they are.

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No one wants to work hard anymore. We as a society prefer things to be handed to us.

So you are saying kids in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, etc don't work hard for their titles?

 

Funny how most states classed way before even I was alive...but this don't want to work hard anything thing is just recent

http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html

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Why can you only name one of 150 teams that has figured this out?  Shouldn't others have figured this "hard work" formula out by now?

 

FYI, Oak Hill had zero state qualifiers, South Adams 1. Not exactly on the same level as the others.

Ask the EMD and South Adams kids what their formula for success is.

 

It will probably involve a lot of time and hard work...or something crazy like that.

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This formula of staying at one school for 10-15 years and building a program is too much work for most people.

 

All you have to do is go to the nearest successful program and ride their coat tails...it is much easier.

I love the personal attack, keep them coming since you obviously cannot discuss the points being made.

 

FYI, you have no idea my situation.

 

Ask the South Adams Studs if they are not on the same level as the others.

 

I believe they are.

So zero state qualifiers last year, one state qualifier this year...wow.

Ask the EMD and South Adams kids what their formula for success is.

 

It will probably involve a lot of time and hard work...or something crazy like that.

So Oak Hill kids don't work hard, nor do Churubusco, nor does any other kid that doesn't make it to state.

 

Basically we have 224 kids that work hard in the state, the others are lazy. Finally, we have solved the problem.  Case closed.

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So you are saying kids in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, etc don't work hard for their titles?

 

Funny how most states classed way before even I was alive...but this don't want to work hard anything thing is just recent

http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html

I don't think they don't work hard, they don't have to work as hard since the top wrestlers are all spread out. I would bet that some(if not most) of these "champions" aren't even top 30 in their overall weight class. 

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So you are saying kids in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, etc don't work hard for their titles?

 

Funny how most states classed way before even I was alive...but this don't want to work hard anything thing is just recent

http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html

With all do respect Y2, ask  all the number ones in there perspective classes if they like the class system. I have yet to meet one of them, or a parent of one of them that says they do. For team stuff it makes sense. For the guys who bust their butts to be the best it is nothing short of a slap in their face. If you do not believe me pole our 1s and 2s from this year or any year. The thought disgusts them! Ask would you prefer holding one of four or five 1st places is your state... Ick  When you talk to people at a national level they have more respect for Indiana placement, with the exception of no wrestlebacks at Semi State. I can tell you my son would rather take 5th this year in an unclassed system than 1st in a classed system. That is the heart of a true competitor! Not a matter of what others are doing. Whats the right thing? If they are doing the right thing lets change if not, no way!

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I don't think they don't work hard, they don't have to work as hard since the top wrestlers are all spread out. I would bet that some(if not most) of these "champions" aren't even top 30 in their overall weight class. 

So how do you judge if these kids work hard or not for their state titles?  Do you envision kids in Ohio smoking cigs, sitting on the couch, just going out and winning state titles?

With all do respect Y2, ask  all the number ones in there perspective classes if they like the class system. I have yet to meet one of them, or a parent of one of them that says they do. For team stuff it makes sense. For the guys who bust their butts to be the best it is nothing short of a slap in their face. If you do not believe me pole our 1s and 2s from this year or any year. The thought disgusts them! Ask would you prefer holding one of four or five 1st places is your state... Ick  When you talk to people at a national level they have more respect for Indiana placement, with the exception of no wrestlebacks at Semi State. I can tell you my son would rather take 5th this year in an unclassed system than 1st in a classed system. That is the heart of a true competitor! Not a matter of what others are doing. Whats the right thing? If they are doing the right thing lets change if not, no way!

1. No one here is advocating more than 2 classes for Indiana

2. Most people are of the theory that 2 or 3 classes is best

3. If you want to poll the kids feel free to do so, I guarantee your kid would celebrate a 1A title if he won. I highly doubt he would throw it in the trash and call it a crying shame. I'm sure your school would celebrate his championship, put his picture on the way and a sign outside the city.  You may also want to poll the kids on what they want in the school cafeteria, that would be good. You may want to poll the kids on if they want an extra 5lbs for the state finals too, I'm sure they'd like that.

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I love the personal attack, keep them coming since you obviously cannot discuss the points being made.

FYI, you have no idea my situation.

 

 

So zero state qualifiers last year, one state qualifier this year...wow.

 

So Oak Hill kids don't work hard, nor do Churubusco, nor does any other kid that doesn't make it to state.

 

Basically we have 224 kids that work hard in the state, the others are lazy. Finally, we have solved the problem.  Case closed.

Are you saying Oak Hill and Cherubusco kids are not successful? FYI- You don't know their situation.

 

Again, wrestling is one of the greatest sports in my opinion. It teaches great life lessons to to any young man brave enough to step on to the mat ( whether they are a sectional qualifier or state champion). No need to add little league "don't get your feelings hurt" trophies.

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So how do you judge if these kids work hard or not for their state titles?  Do you envision kids in Ohio smoking cigs, sitting on the couch, just going out and winning state titles?

once again, I did not say they didn't work hard...they don't have to work as hard to get a title.  It's human nature to work as hard as your competition level

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once again, I did not say they didn't work hard...they don't have to work as hard to get a title.  It's human nature to work as hard as your competition level

Considering the competition level in states like Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Iowa, etc is very high then....they would probably work hard for their accolades.

 

Are you saying Oak Hill and Cherubusco kids are not successful? FYI- You don't know their situation.

If you consider success making it to semi-state they are successful....if you consider success going to state, then no

 

Again, wrestling is one of the greatest sports in my opinion. It teaches great life lessons to to any young man brave enough to step on to the mat ( whether they are a sectional qualifier or state champion). No need to add little league "don't get your feelings hurt" trophies.

So what if more kids experienced this sport? What if some more experienced the thrill and joy of going to the state finals? How would that hurt the sport?

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Considering the competition level in states like Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Iowa, etc is very high then....they would probably work hard for their accolades.

 

 

imagine how hard  they would have to work in a single class system in their state    ; )

Edited by fearless fly
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Considering the competition level in states like Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Iowa, etc is very high then....they would probably work hard for their accolades. If you consider success making it to semi-state they are successful....if you consider success going to state, then noSo what if more kids experienced this sport? What if some more experienced the thrill and joy of going to the state finals? How would that hurt the sport?

Success to me is based on reaching one's potential not based on awards. (A la John Wooden's philosophy- sorry for the basketball coach reference!)

 

Google my avatar Willie Burton (ESPN E60). He only won 1 match in his high school career BUT, given his circumstances, he is more "successful" than most people I know. His post-season tournament run lasted a mere 40 seconds BUT he reached his full potential....that is success in my opinion (again, and again, most guys are not state champs, although that is usually the goal it does not determine absolute success, neither does state qualification, etc etc.)

 

Willie briefly discusses quitting Special Olympic sports because it was not competitive enough for him and "everyone gets a trophy".

 

Great story narrated by Dan Gable.

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How about this...we set up 350 classes...Everyone is State Champ....Everyone Gets a Trophy...

 

Why take the chance on someone getting their feelings hurt?   We could just give out the awards in November....

Great idea Bolt. I can see the headlines now:

 

Don't miss the friendship meet this week between Portage and East Chicago.

 

Score will not be kept and both guys will have their hands raised after the match.

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How about this...we set up 350 classes...Everyone is State Champ....Everyone Gets a Trophy...

 

Why take the chance on someone getting their feelings hurt?   We could just give out the awards in November....

Another oldie, but goodie, keep them coming!

Success to me is based on reaching one's potential not based on awards. (A la John Wooden's philosophy- sorry for the basketball coach reference!)

 

Google my avatar Willie Burton (ESPN E60). He only won 1 match in his high school career BUT, given his circumstances, he is more "successful" than most people I know. His post-season tournament run lasted a mere 40 seconds BUT he reached his full potential....that is success in my opinion (again, and again, most guys are not state champs, although that is usually the goal it does not determine absolute success, neither does state qualification, etc etc.)

 

Willie briefly discusses quitting Special Olympic sports because it was not competitive enough for him and "everyone gets a trophy".

 

Great story narrated by Dan Gable.

So you say success is going to semi-state...I get it now. In 2009, I lost three kids in the ticket round. I did not consider that a success....however you would have. That year still haunts me like no other and I still think of that every year around this time. Of course you would be celebrating it like you won the Super Bowl.

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