Caught in Spladle BUT DEFENSIVE PIN CALLED

[fanatic46041]

@ Logansport 170 wrestler A was dominating wrestler B then wrestler A hit a Spladle on wrestler B Ref CLEARLY looking at wrestler B's shoulders FLAT then wrestler B's coach brings it to the refs attention that Wrestler A's shoulders are flat also...the ref completely got away from the pinning combo that was being displayed by Wrestler A to slap the mat....Only when they got to the line to declare wrestler B the winner!!! You can only imagine what happened next.....

[maligned]

There was just a big thread about this less than 2 weeks ago.  People don't realize that a pin is a pin, anytime anywhere...even if there's no control.  If the official didn't think that a part of both shoulder blades or both shoulders were touching the mat for B, but they were for A...sorry, A pinned himself and he loses. If it was a spladle, it often is difficult to finish the pin because your own body blocks the shoulder blades and shoulders from touching the mat.  And there certainly is no way for anyone to tell if a guy getting spladled is pinned unless you are down with your nose at mat level.  Unless you've got video proof with close-ups refuting it, your description only suggests the ref knew what he was doing and isn't afraid to get it right.

[Wrestling Scholar]

The referee had a good look to see if the kid was in spladle was pinned.   He was there at least 10 seconds and position didn't change. Looked to me his shoulders were up against Pruitt's side.   Didnt  look like a pin. I think it was good reffing and we did most of the day.    Pruitt was square on the mat for a good while before the ref noticed.  The funny thing was the expression on Owens face  when the ref raised his hand.  He had no clue he won.

[imsomefrickinguy]

The referee had a good look to see if the kid was in spladle was pinned.   He was there at leposition seconds and position didn't change. Looked to me his shoulders were up against Pruitt's side.   Didnt  look like a pin. I think it was good reffing and we did most of the day.    Pruitt was square on the mat for a good while before the ref noticed.  The funny thing was the expression on Owens face  when the ref raised his hand.  He had no clue he won.

 

I had a great view of this Wrestling Scholar. I had no horses in that race and I agree with you 100% Owen's shoulders were blocked from touching the mat due to resting against Pruit. If any thing that ref took extra long in calling the pin.

[tyandky]

You have to know what you're doing and how to position yourself. My son had at least 40 pins by spladles and never give up a defensive fall.

I remember Elijah Dunn last year at regionals pinning himself in a spladle while the ref was only looking at Dunn's shoulders. Bad moment like started earlier. Elijah got up thinking he had the pin. I believe the match might have been for advancing to SS .

[kman]

Pruitt was pinned. Owen didnt realize he had won. All true.Officiating at Logansport best I have seen all year.

[maligned]

As a sidenote, if you need a spladle lesson and you want to see some magic, check out this video from the 1987 NCAA finals:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-QNXMoahKE

 

Bill Kelly is the ex-coach of Indiana's own East Chicago Central...the coach that helped produce the long line of Maldonado studs and their endless supply of spladles.  He's seen here wrestling for Iowa St. in the championship match against the defending national champ from Iowa.  Prior to this match, the spladle was largely unknown.  I've been told no one in the crowd could tell who was pinning who because they'd never seen it.  By 5 years later, the spladle was everywhere. 

 

(I know a lot of you have seen this, but it's too amazing not to post in a spladle-related thread.)

[cougarlion]

I couldn't see Owens shoulders but Pruitt was flat.......not sure who was flat first........

[MattM]

Kelly does his spladle well in that video. After putting the move on he starts to lean in so the pressure is going in. That is balling his opponent up more rather all the focus bring about on pulling the leg down. By having the far side of your body slightly turned in it helps to ensure one of your shoulder blades is off the mat and helps to drop your opponents shoulder blades down off his rib area and onto the mat. keeps him out of danger and allows a greater oppertunity for a pin fall. Just like on certain leg riding finishes or even cradle variations it is not good practice to lean back to try and pull something on your opponent further down when your back is also exposing the mat. It is much safer to direct the pressure is a slightly different direction that allows you to prevent a self pin and in the event of losing the hold to recover without getting yourself danger.

[KoontzDaddy]

Here's my tangent on the freakin spladle. I hate the recent explosion of this thing.

 

My 11 yr old has fallen in love with the spladle and decided that it's better than traditional defense. The problem is he gets it every once in a while but it usually causes him more harm than good. And the spladle is cool to watch. I'll throw in that I also hate the now go to ankle dive and roll that I'm seeing more often. Same issue that it gets you into trouble more often than gets you out of it.

 

Here's my question as it pertains to this post:

If wrestler A is dominating, why go for a risky move like a spladle anyway? Not smart to make yourself vulnerable if you don't need to. It's one thing to stay in attack mode, but that doesn't mean you need to get cute. Just my 2 cents.

[maligned]

Here's my tangent on the freakin spladle. I hate the recent explosion of this thing.

 

My 11 yr old has fallen in love with the spladle and decided that it's better than traditional defense. The problem is he gets it every once in a while but it usually causes him more harm than good. And the spladle is cool to watch. I'll throw in that I also hate the now go to ankle dive and roll that I'm seeing more often. Same issue that it gets you into trouble more often than gets you out of it.

 

Here's my question as it pertains to this post:

If wrestler A is dominating, why go for a risky move like a spladle anyway? Not smart to make yourself vulnerable if you don't need to. It's one thing to stay in attack mode, but that doesn't mean you need to get cute. Just my 2 cents.

Both moves you mention definitely get you into trouble when you're taking risks with them at a young age and don't have a feel for them yet.  I'd say 11-year-olds are best served sticking to the bread and butter for most of their work, but eventually you almost have to have secondary defense against high-level shots when you reach higher levels of wrestling.  And taking some risks with these moves along the way (with the right coaching) will definitely add depth to your son's arsenal--even if he loses a match here or there now for the sake of more success later.

 

Once you know how to stay upright some as you first reach for a spladle, you actually create the feeling of danger for your opponent and potentially create space to fend off his attack even if you don't follow through on it.  Much like a headlock doesn't have to be a big risk once you've run it in a match 100 times and know your balance limits, a spladle isn't a risk once you've got a little mastery of it. 

An ankle dive or a hang/reach-over to the ankles is becoming 'in style' in middle school and high school because every single college wrestler in the country uses them to fend off good shots and get takedowns via defense.   It's one of the most noticeable differences between watching high school and college wrestling: secondary defense with ankle attacks are used constantly in college.

[wildcatcountry97]

Mustang is correct. Kids use this as a lazy way out instead of a proper defense. It's like a basketball team not playing defense and shooting 3-pointers all game. Sure, you might win, but as an effective long term strategy it's garbage.

As a move, it certainly does have it's place if applied properly. However, it is extremely high risk, so if you don't need the high-reward result, it's not worth the risk. If you're losing and there's 30 seconds left, or your team needs a 6 - then sure. But if you are in the state tournament and winning the match, probably not worth the risk. (Didn't see this match in particular though) 

 

Maligned - You are probably correct that that match may have brought that move to a greater audience, but it was certainly around prior to that. I have old University Technique Books from early the early 80's breaking this move down step-by-step, although it often uses a different nomenclature.

[maligned]

Mustang is correct. Kids use this as a lazy way out instead of a proper defense. It's like a basketball team not playing defense and shooting 3-pointers all game. Sure, you might win, but as an effective long term strategy it's garbage.

As a move, it certainly does have it's place if applied properly. However, it is extremely high risk, so if you don't need the high-reward result, it's not worth the risk. If you're losing and there's 30 seconds left, or your team needs a 6 - then sure. But if you are in the state tournament and winning the match, probably not worth the risk. (Didn't see this match in particular though) 

 

What he said, coupled with what I said.   These moves can be referred to as "secondary" defense for a reason: you need good primary defense first and foremost.

Maligned - You are probably correct that that match may have brought that move to a greater audience, but it was certainly around prior to that. I have old University Technique Books from early the early 80's breaking this move down step-by-step, although it often uses a different nomenclature.

 

Yeah, I wasn't under the illusion that he was the move's creator...perhaps just one of the providers of a tipping point moment for moving it into the wrestling mainstream at all levels.

[wildcatcountry97]

Also, I think some of these 'big high-risk' moves are getting more popular as a direct result of society. Wrestling is not immune.

Folks want all the glory without doing the work. And they want to have a built-in excuse if they lose. Using big high-risk moves serves both purposes.

 

Kids want big pins, big points, big victories, glamour, attention, etc. They want it immediately and it's way more cool to pull these flashy moves in a match than to hit a sprawl, cross face, and battle someone to a 3-2 victory you can win 10 out of 10 times. Also, if you lose, you can say - 'hey, I was a far superior wrestler, I just got caught.'

Again, not particularly about this match at all. I'm speaking in general about high-risk moves gaining popularity. They do have their place, and they can be done correctly and effectively. It can also help someone win a match that is far inferior to a better wrestler,. But, if you are the better wrestler, I would say it's advisable to wrestler mistake-free, low-risk, and hit the technique you have practiced.

 

(How many times at practice have you practice sprawling ? How many times in practice do you practice Spladles? - If you equally practice both then go ahead, but if you're looking to hit moves you haven't practiced in place of solid technique you are taking a significant risk and over time that probability of success isn't in your favor.)

I'm with ya maligned.