Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Vote and have your voice heard. Just for clarification purposes The IHSAA states that a team must field 3 or more wrestlers in order to have a team score at sectional Per the IHSWCA Team State data, a team with five wrestlers whom all are returning state champions would not even qualify for the voting portion of the event in any of the scoring systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loscoz Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Here is a question that may have been addressed, should it be a team with "x" amount of wrestlers that are underclassmen or would that narrow the field to much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well, if you have 6 state champs, and the other team has a full line up. Guess who wins, and is there for, a better "team", lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 In this case we're trying to determine the best teams to participate and a team with only 6 wrestlers can't win any matches. The other problem is that we're trying to use this year's data to determine next year's teams. A team may only have 6 this year, but have 5 or 6 freshmen in next year, so maybe I should have voted for 3 or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 In this case we're trying to determine the best teams to participate and a team with only 6 wrestlers can't win any matches. The other problem is that we're trying to use this year's data to determine next year's teams. A team may only have 6 this year, but have 5 or 6 freshmen in next year, so maybe I should have voted for 3 or more. Even with 6 incoming freshmen, the team will not score points for those freshmen. My reasoning behind this is simple. If a team has five kids and realistically has four semi-state qualifiers and one state placer and all return. Somehow they are in consideration for the voting portion of the process. Is the committee going to vote them in? What about if they have only three kids and all are state champs? Are they going to vote them in? My guess is the answer to both is NO and if they did they would take a ton of heat. bog190 and infowrestling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It would be nice to hear the committee that decides these things give an opinion once in a while. How did the committee decide to eliminate teams with less than 3 entries but keep teams with 4 or 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Two reasons that they chose to stay down at 3 or more: 1. They still want it to be an "all-in" event. Whatever you may think about the sporting fairness of all of it, to the coaches, it was very important for teams to feel fully included, no matter their size. They want them to be able to see their scores, no matter how small, and to track their program's success and progress. 2. The IHSAA counts scores starting with teams with 3 participants at sectional, and the committee, at least as much as makes sense, wants the event to maintain IHSAA principles. To be truthful, I personally would prefer a little higher number too. But you have to draw the line somewhere. I mean, if we're honest, no one with 10 guys or less is going to qualify. So we could realistically even go up to a number that high. Or we could even eliminate teams with not enough kids with winning records since they also have no chance to qualify. But in the end, the decision was made based on principle--not necessarily a calculation of the most extreme lineup that could qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Again, the committee doesn't answer the questions. 1. I'm pretty sure the teams with 5 or fewer wrestlers are aware they won't qualify. There's no one that says their scores can't be calculated or their success tracked. Why is eliminating teams with 2 wrestlers "all in" but eliminating teams with 5 not? 2. Is this selection process something that is in line with IHSAA principles in the first place? A team with 10 wrestlers can win a dual match, a team with 4 or 5 cannot. A decision made on principle and not what is in the best interest of the event is pretty weak, honestly. infowrestling and bell103 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I do remember the point being made a while back that the IHsWCA had no intention of creating an event that the IHSAA would adopt. While I am glad the committee, whenever amd however they meet, did decide to take some action, I do think the focus should be on making the event as attractive and competitive as possible. I doubt any of the ten teams that are in between the rule of five and the rule of three care one way or the other about this topic at all. infowrestling, bog190 and bell103 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I do remember the point being made a while back that the IHsWCA had no intention of creating an event that the IHSAA would adopt. While I am glad the committee, whenever amd however they meet, did decide to take some action, I do think the focus should be on making the event as attractive and competitive as possible. I doubt any of the ten teams that are in between the rule of five and the rule of three care one way or the other about this topic at all.What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Based on the sectional entries on Track Wrestling there would be 14 teams eliminated with the adjustment of 6+ wrestlers qualify you for the process. Only four are eliminated via having one or two entries. If the enrollments stayed the same these teams would move down a class These teams would go from 2A to 1A North PoseyOak HillCentervilleIndianapolis Cardinal RitterSouthmontDelphiNorth PutnamSouth Vermillion From 3A to 2A JasperNew PalestineShelbyvilleNew CastlePlymouth Again, why would this hurt? Make the event as attractive as possible and strengthen the lower classes. bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 In 2011 Indian Creek had 2 state champs, a runner-up, and a state a qualifier. I believe they only had half of a squad and lost many dual meets that year, but placed high at individual state. If they would have gotten a bid for team state, they most likely would have gotten last place and would have kept a team with a full squad out of the running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 In 2011 Indian Creek had 2 state champs, a runner-up, and a state a qualifier. I believe they only had half of a squad and lost many dual meets that year, but placed high at individual state. If they would have gotten a bid for team state, they most likely would have gotten last place and would have kept a team with a full squad out of the running. They were far down the list. The State Duals qualifying scores are designed to predict who will be the best duals teams, so you can't get an over-inflated score from a couple top guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Who is on the committee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Based on the sectional entries on Track Wrestling there would be 14 teams eliminated with the adjustment of 6+ wrestlers qualify you for the process. Only four are eliminated via having one or two entries. If the enrollments stayed the same these teams would move down a class These teams would go from 2A to 1A North Posey Oak Hill Centerville Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter Southmont Delphi North Putnam South Vermillion From 3A to 2A Jasper New Palestine Shelbyville New Castle Plymouth Again, why would this hurt? Make the event as attractive as possible and strengthen the lower classes. Strengthen the lower classes? Some coaches may not want that, as it may hurt their chances of qualifying. Suppose to be sarcastic, but sadly there probably is a coach that votes to keep it at 3 or less wrestlers for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Chairman - Tyson Skinner (Madison HS) Committee rep - Sam Riesen (Churubusco HS) Committee rep - Zach Harper (Jeffersonville HS) Committee rep - Mike Day (Centerville HS) Committee rep - Jim Tonte (Perry Meridian HS) Committee consultant - Nick Strub (East Central HS) Committee consultant - Adrian Troyer Are these individuals, still the state duals selection committee members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yes that is the commitee. infowrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Harper isn't involved anymore, though, and Coach Strub is a rep now, I believe. infowrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 132 votes and it heavily favors the "Rule of 5." This shows quite a bit of disconnect between the committee and what fans and coaches think is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The man who wanted class wrestling and fought for the underdogs, now wants teams w/ ffts eliminated from teams state conisderation? Tisk tisk Y2, the big school aura is chipping away at you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The man who wanted class wrestling and fought for the underdogs, now wants teams w/ ffts eliminated from teams state conisderation? Tisk tisk Y2, the big school aura is chipping away at you..... If you have 9 forfeits you shouldn't be in consideration. You can be a small school and have a full roster. Teams with a full roster are much more deserving than teams with 5 wrestlers. There is no sense in having a team in the tournament that would have AT BEST a dual where they lose 52-30. Just because he posted a poll doesn't mean he against class wrestling and underdogs. This poll just shows that about 3/4 of the people on this site have common sense. bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Dont push your propaganda on me. I know, I know it's cool having the same 4 teams wrestling for state titles every year, but just giving everybody a chance wouldn't hurt ya know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was just wondering if you have a under classman that gets hurt and cant wrestle in the state series but would have made it to reg. or ss. do they take that into consideration when doing the selections. Just seams like a lot of kids are getting hurt and not wrestling at sectionals and wondering if it affects the teams for next years scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The man who wanted class wrestling and fought for the underdogs, now wants teams w/ ffts eliminated from teams state conisderation? Tisk tisk Y2, the big school aura is chipping away at you..... Lol you couldnt be any more off base on the point of this poll Letting all teams in hurts the small schools. Excluding teams w double digit forfeits helps all the great small school programs in our state Troll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Telling kids that they have no shot at a team state title helps those schools, interesting... "We got no chance to wrestle for a team title, I'll never get out of sectionals b/c of all the larger schools, I'm not wrestling, no point" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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