TripleB Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 With the seeding meeting tonight. A question arose in our conference seeding meeting. When 3 guys are going for a seed how does it sort out? Two options - you work through the criteria and eliminate guys until 1 is left. Example Skinner, Bentz, Caprino. Skinner beat Bentz in head to head and Caprino never wrestled Skinner or Bentz. So Bentz is eliminated and Skinner and Caprino fall down to winning %. Caprino gets 1 seed based on record, Skinner gets the 2 seed, Bentz gets the 3 seed. Other option - you go through Criteria until all 3 can qualify for a criteria. Same situation as above, but all 3 are eligible at best record b/c that is first criteria that all 3 qualify for. Bentz gets first seed w/ best record, Skinner 2 seed, Bentz 3 seed. Which Scenario??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm #1 based on looks, skills, and the ability to ban both of you! /thread combatspeed06 and JakeandBreighton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 In all honesty if there is a 3-way like this Caprino- 25-1 no commons or head to head Bentz- 23-2, loss to Skinny Skinny- 21-5- Win over Bentz It should go 1. Caprino- no one has criteria over him as it should be 2. Skinny- has the win over Bentz 3. Bentz Now if it's Caprino- 23-2 no commons or head to head Bentz- 25-1, loss to Skinny Skinny- 21-5- Win over Bentz It should go 1. Skinny- has the win over Bentz as the highest criteria of the 3 2. Bentz- Better winning % 3. Caprino- because the man hates him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalllynch Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Or do you move the head to head winner up since there is no other crizeria the all have except record. Under the lose and drop application a 30 win bentz who got caught by a 10 win skinner would sedded below an 11 win caprino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Or do you move the head to head winner up since there is no other crizeria the all have except record. Under the lose and drop application a 30 win bentz who got caught by a 10 win skinner would sedded below an 11 win caprino If you have a 3-way where everyone has beaten everyone you can't do the lose and drop out method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalllynch Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Joe your last example was the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Joe your last example was the situation. Then from what I have always seen, it should go to the one with the highest criteria. Even if Caprino has a common 1-0 record over Skinny, Skinny still gets the top seed. If Skinny is like 10-25 and others in the meeting have criteria over him he is thrown out at least in the talk for the top couple seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Put them in a pit and let them fight it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Other option - you go through Criteria until all 3 can qualify for a criteria. Same situation as above, but all 3 are eligible at best record b/c that is first criteria that all 3 qualify for. Bentz gets first seed w/ best record, Skinner 2 seed, Bentz 3 seed. I say it would be best to not go with the scenario that gives Bentz the #1 & #3 seeds & leaves Caprino out. Y2CJ41 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PURDUEdad Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Since I have never sat through a seeding meeting, does the "He's on a mission" qualifier ever truly get used as a tiebreaker? If so, is it only awarded in the order in which it was given? loscoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Since I have never sat through a seeding meeting, does the "He's on a mission" qualifier ever truly get used as a tiebreaker? If so, is it only awarded in the order in which it was given? The "he's on a mission" or "he's going to make some noise" criteria is just below the losses in which he was "caught" or "sick" criteria. PURDUEdad, loscoz and poitup123 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 That sick criteria has really affected a lot of people this year...I really think the IHSAA needs to reconsider its ranking on the criteria list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 i've seen the flip of the coin settle it......sometimes it's just to close to call especially if you start using winning percentage because then you need to consider strength of schedule.....and that opens up another can of worms......it could go on forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 With the seeding meeting tonight. A question arose in our conference seeding meeting. When 3 guys are going for a seed how does it sort out? Two options - you work through the criteria and eliminate guys until 1 is left. Example Skinner, Bentz, Caprino. Skinner beat Bentz in head to head and Caprino never wrestled Skinner or Bentz. So Bentz is eliminated and Skinner and Caprino fall down to winning %. Caprino gets 1 seed based on record, Skinner gets the 2 seed, Bentz gets the 3 seed. Other option - you go through Criteria until all 3 can qualify for a criteria. Same situation as above, but all 3 are eligible at best record b/c that is first criteria that all 3 qualify for. Bentz gets first seed w/ best record, Skinner 2 seed, Bentz 3 seed. Which Scenario??? It seems faiely simple.......Eventhough I cannot see Skinner beating a "real man" like Bentz, if it happened then Bentz could not be seeded ahead of Skinner. The only one that can now be seeded ahead of Skinner is Caprino unless someone else was a quarter-finalist at lasst years Semi-State (no matter what the weight class)....intro the guy who is 12-10, but was a Semi-State 1/4 finalist four weight classes lower a year ago. i've seen the flip of the coin settle it......sometimes it's just to close to call especially if you start using winning percentage because then you need to consider strength of schedule.....and that opens up another can of worms......it could go on forever! According to the criteria unless two guys have the exact same winning percentage it should never come to a coin toss. Back a few years ago when I started out there was no mention of winning percentage...it just said "contestant with the best record". Then it was a crazy thing sometimes and once it awhile it would come down to who could keep arguing the longest. Those were the days with no wrestlebacks when being seeded was HUGE. With wrestlebacks it normally pans out and most of the time a person can only be hurt one place via a poor seed, and if they are the best it does not matter where they are seeded they should be able to win it all. Notice I siad,"a few years ago". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 so what if that happened?.....you have two kids that are both 30-0, they both have wrestled tuff schedules and are ranked 1 and 2 (or just highly ranked) in the state?.....surely you can't go by rankings because that is just someones opinion (no offense to the rankings guys......lol).....can't imagine that hasn't happened at some point...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 so what if that happened?.....you have two kids that are both 30-0, they both have wrestled tuff schedules and are ranked 1 and 2 (or just highly ranked) in the state?.....surely you can't go by rankings because that is just someones opinion (no offense to the rankings guys......lol).....can't imagine that hasn't happened at some point...... Than it should go by grade point average. Who is putting the most time in to both sports and grades. charger.dad, loscoz and LetsWrastle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Something like that could happen, but I think it highly unlikely. If it did, most of the time one coach will say (normally the guy who thinks his guy can win anyway, or will be motivated a bit by being #2). If neither relented then it would be a coin toss as per the criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 i've seen the flip of the coin settle it......sometimes it's just to close to call especially if you start using winning percentage because then you need to consider strength of schedule.....and that opens up another can of worms......it could go on forever! There is no such thing as "strength of schedule" in the seeding criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 so what if that happened?.....you have two kids that are both 30-0, they both have wrestled tuff schedules and are ranked 1 and 2 (or just highly ranked) in the state?.....surely you can't go by rankings because that is just someones opinion (no offense to the rankings guys......lol).....can't imagine that hasn't happened at some point...... Really...rankings should never come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 There is no such thing as "strength of schedule" in the seeding criteria but it truly does effect the winning percentage argument......28-2 with both your losses to the #1 kid and wins over state ranked kids versus 30-0 with the the toughest kid you wrestled was #6 at semi state......but then you would be looking at rankings to help you decide......no good way sometimes....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie78 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I always like when "quality losses" come into play mhelmins and Y2CJ41 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 but it truly does effect the winning percentage argument......28-2 with both your losses to the #1 kid and wins over state ranked kids versus 30-0 with the the toughest kid you wrestled was #6 at semi state......but then you would be looking at rankings to help you decide......no good way sometimes....... Strength of schedule is not considered in the seeding meeting. If there are no head to heads, common opponents, or returning semi-state quarter finalists it goes to record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 but it truly does effect the winning percentage argument......28-2 with both your losses to the #1 kid and wins over state ranked kids versus 30-0 with the the toughest kid you wrestled was #6 at semi state......but then you would be looking at rankings to help you decide......no good way sometimes....... The 30-0 kid should be seeded above the 28-2 kid every single time. The 30-0 kid should be seeded above the 28-2 kid every single time. Unless the 28-2 kid is a semi-state quarter finalist. Y2CJ41 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The 30-0 kid should be seeded above the 28-2 kid every single time. Unless the 28-2 kid is a returning 1/4 Finalist from the previous year's Semi-State. If he were 11-10 and a returning 1/4 finalist from the previous yer's Semi-State (at any weight) he would be seeded ahead of the 30-0 wrestler unless there was a Head to head or a common opponent......that's the way the IHSAA set it up ( Ithink with some input from the IHSWCA)...I thought it was a poor criteria...but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Unless the 28-2 kid is a returning 1/4 Finalist from the previous year's Semi-State. If he were 11-10 and a returning 1/4 finalist from the previous yer's Semi-State (at any weight) he would be seeded ahead of the 30-0 wrestler unless there was a Head to head or a common opponent......that's the way the IHSAA set it up ( Ithink with some input from the IHSWCA)...I thought it was a poor criteria...but...... It's better than returning sectional champ AT the same weight. I remember one time where the kid wasn't the returning champion, but won regional...so it went to record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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