NH-Coach Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The brackets for the Bill Kerbel Invitational are now up on track wrestling. They are listed under New Haven Invitational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here is the link http://www.trackwrestling.com/predefinedtournaments/VerifyPassword.jsp?tournamentId=136013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Humble Jr. Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wow. 106 Bracket looks pretty tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Humble Jr. Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Good finals match @ 113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So according to these brackets, Penn must be sending its B team to Bellmont. Is that right? bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Lol that is right bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It wold appear that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Let's hope this is the last year Penn gets invited to Bellmont. No reason to pull stunts like this The IHSAA has to act on this multiple varsity team thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAT36 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hildebrandt, Selis, Swank, Mammo not enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hildebrandt, Selis, Swank, Mammo not enough? These brackets are for New Haven...there's a big super dual at Bellmont this weekend that apparently none of these Penn guys will be attending...meaning they're bringing their B team to face Bellmont, Bloomington South, and a couple others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 These brackets are for New Haven...there's a big super dual at Bellmont this weekend that apparently none of these Penn guys will be attending...meaning they're bringing their B team to face Bellmont, Bloomington South, and a couple others Which sucks bwoodjc89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAT36 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ohhhh... How in the heck do they get so much scheduled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 There's nothing preventing teams from having a second, or even third (which Penn also has) varsity team. They're obviously just responsible for the funding of travel and contracts and everything else associated with being in a couple different varsity events most weekends. There are about 10 teams in the state that do this to some level or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyv Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If Penn's jv loses to Bloomington south, bellmont, or any other teams, will this count on their varsity record since it is a varsity tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It will count on their Varsity B record. But no, Penn doesn't consider these results as part of their A team's record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 And by the way, if anyone wasn't aware of Penn having 3 teams...they've been doing this for a number of years and wrestle virtually a full schedule for at least their B team. it's just that on a given weekend, they've tended to send their A team to what appears to be the higher profile event. Bellmont's event has Perry, bloomington south, mishawaka, bellmont, and Penn involved (along with I think Plymouth and SB Adams), so it's quite high profile. I don't think Penn is scheduled to face Perry or Mishawaka, so it's chiefly the Bellmont and South matches that will wrankle fans that were hoping to see the "real" Penn. New Haven has a couple good teams and definitely some good individuals, don't get me wrong, but this choice of which team is going where is a bit off-script for what Penn might usually choose to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAJR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This is a gray area that has been "allowed" in sports the ihsaa considers to be individual sports. Technically a school can only field 1 varsity team to participate in a sport. You don't see this allowed in basketball for example. There are good and bad points to allowing this and in my opinion it's up to the event host and participating teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 . Technically a school can only field 1 varsity team to participate in a sport.That's actually not true. Under current IHSAA by-laws their is not a limit set on the number of teams a school may have in a sport. It also does not specify what each team shall be called (varsity, varsity 2, reserve, JV, freshman, or otherwise). While the by-laws allow a school to field as many teams in a sport as it want it does specify that a school can only enter one team in the IHSAA state tournament series. The uniqueness of our sport being individual based with less JV opportunities along with a team element just shines more noticable light of this practice compared to the other team based sports. In most cases it is a great practice which allows wrestlers who usually would only get a few JV matches to see much more useful competition. Until more teams are able to fill a full JV squad it maybe the only way to get kids enough Mat time. It helps keep the wrestlers interest in the sport up, improve his development, and helps the team as well. From that perspective I don't think too many people see the practice of having a Varsity 2 as a bad thing. I do also agree, as you eluded to, that in fairness to the spirit of the contract the other "varsity" teams at an event should be made aware ahead of time if they are facing a team other than the main varsity squad. Now if the parents, fans, or wrestlers don't get the memo on which team that's one thing but I would say the honest thing to do is make sure the coaches are aware of what they are signing up for ahead of time. (In the above case with Penn this may have occured I do not know.) The only other real issue that I have heard In opposition of varsity 2 is from what could be labeled manipulative seeding practices. As it is spelled out in the IHSAA by-laws (paraphrasing) the school representative/coach should make every effort to seed the tournament properly and fairly. However, a coach could attempts to gain an advantage in the the seeding process by entering the name/record of a successful varsity 2 wrestler which by design mostly wrestles "easier" varsity competition, rather than the regular varsity guy who otherwise would not have been seeded. Then after seeding substituting back in the main varsity guy so he at least get the final seeded spot rather than drawn in (all replacements move to the final seed). I would say that not revealing what team is in attendance and trying to take advantage of the system for seeding purposes could be the only reason the IHSAA would really need to possibly step in a determine the future of Vartiey 2. In both cases it still comes down to coaches being open with what is occurring and if need be showing some integrity in certain situations in order to ensure that the benifited of Varsity 2 can continue into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAJR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That's why I said it was a gray area. I never stated anything about the number or names of the teams a school can have. The ihsaa focus is the tournament series and it's as you said one team, normally referred to as varsity and maybe I should have been more specific. Based on that, it seems very challenging to meet all the other ihsaa guidelines around number of matches, points, weigh- ins... Not saying it isn't possible, but like the weight management program, somewhat unenforceable. Would a "varsity 2" basketball team be allowed to play another school's "varsity" team on the same day? I don't know, a different sport as we know, but, I have never heard of it happening. I agree that when done properly it is a positive. I don't think this is a uniqueness to wrestling, but many ihsaa individual sports. I know cross country has similar situations and discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ok, looking at this more closely, Penn's decision to send its A team to New Haven is making more sense. They're only scheduled to wrestle 4 duals at Bellmont: Bloomington South (just wrestled them at IHSWCA state duals) SB Adams (conference opponent they'll see multiple times) Bellmont (just wrestled a good chunk of their team at Al Smith) Plymouth (not sure if they see them later in the season before regional, but this wouldn't be a deal-breaker to miss) On the other hand, New Haven is a good quality individual tournament with lesser-known opponents for their top guys. Also, it's probably a less taxing day, just coming off of Al Smith and the State Duals and heading into the end-of-season stretch. And i'm sure they're not just springing this on the Bellmont people Saturday morning. I'm guessing they've had talks about what's going on. Tonyv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You don't think its unethical for a team to attend a tournament for many years and then with just days notice, to send in their B roster? How is it not an unfair advantage to overschedule your teams and then pick and choose which events you attend with what team? I can't imagine that a majority of coaches in the state would agree that they would be comfortable signing up for an event, with the impression that their top team would be involved, only to pull out after they didn't like the matchups. Ok, looking at this more closely, Penn's decision to send its A team to New Haven is making more sense. They're only scheduled to wrestle 4 duals at Bellmont: Bloomington South (just wrestled them at IHSWCA state duals) SB Adams (conference opponent they'll see multiple times) Bellmont (just wrestled a good chunk of their team at Al Smith) Plymouth (not sure if they see them later in the season before regional, but this wouldn't be a deal-breaker to miss) On the other hand, New Haven is a good quality individual tournament with lesser-known opponents for their top guys. Also, it's probably a less taxing day, just coming off of Al Smith and the State Duals and heading into the end-of-season stretch. And i'm sure they're not just springing this on the Bellmont people Saturday morning. I'm guessing they've had talks about what's going on. It's not about the opponents you might see on a given Saturday. It's about being honest with other schools athletic departments and showing some integrity. How is this, in any way, good for the overall sport of wrestling? bell103 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You don't think its unethical for a team to attend a tournament for many years and then with just days notice, to send in their B roster? How is it not an unfair advantage to overschedule your teams and then pick and choose which events you attend with what team? I can't imagine that a majority of coaches in the state would agree that they would be comfortable signing up for an event, with the impression that their top team would be involved, only to pull out after they didn't like the matchups. It's not about the opponents you might see on a given Saturday. It's about being honest with other schools athletic departments and showing some integrity. How is this, in any way, good for the overall sport of wrestling? I can't deny it's a little sketchy if that's what went down. My previous post was just trying to say there may be more going on behind the scenes before we rush to judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtothemat Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Back to wrestling. I hope Hillenbrandt and Franklin meet in the 113 finals as well. Franklin medical ff'd his last three matches at Mooresville so I hope he is healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_R A T E D Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 106 semi finals will be a good match to watch! #15 vs #16 in the state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Humble Jr. Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Any teams unable to have practice? I wouldn't mind an extra pound.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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