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When is enough, ENOUGH?!


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What should the measure of success be?  AA's, team rankings, or some other metric.  What is the threshold for either program to be considered successful?

 

I don't think it's too much to ask for both teams to have a couple (2 or 3) All-Americans per year and finish in the top half of their conference each year and start knocking on the door of the top 15 or 20 at NCAA's

 

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Be competitive in their conference

 

Purdue was 5-3 in the Big Ten in 2012-2013 beating Wisconsin, Michigan St., Northwestern, Michigan, and Indiana.  Losing to Penn State, Iowa, Illinois.  That was their best finish in years and could be considered competitive for that single season.  However, Purdue will never succeed in wrestling, if consistently being competitive in the conference is the metric, as Purdue is not willing to financially support wrestling to the extent of other schools.

 

It doesn't matter who the coach is because if the coach is good, he will find more money somewhere else.  So, if you want to change wrestling at Purdue you had better start with the financial structure of the athletic department.  Anything else is a complete and total waste of your time.  Someone prove me wrong.

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Purdue was 5-3 in the Big Ten in 2012-2013 beating Wisconsin, Michigan St., Northwestern, Michigan, and Indiana.  Losing to Penn State, Iowa, Illinois.  That was their best finish in years and could be considered competitive for that single season.  However, Purdue will never succeed in wrestling, if consistently being competitive in the conference is the metric, as Purdue is not willing to financially support wrestling to the extent of other schools.

 

It doesn't matter who the coach is because if the coach is good, he will find more money somewhere else.  So, if you want to change wrestling at Purdue you had better start with the financial structure of the athletic department.  Anything else is a complete and total waste of your time.  Someone prove me wrong.

Are you saying that we should just expect poor performances then?

 

8 of the 10 starters from last year returned from last year's squad. Many people were VERY optimistic about this year. Instead they heavily underperformed.

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Are you saying that we should just expect poor performances then?

 

8 of the 10 starters from last year returned from last year's squad. Many people were VERY optimistic about this year. Instead they heavily underperformed.

 

I'm saying that if being competitive in the Big 10 is your measuring stick, then you will chronically be measured as performing poorly because the program will never be funded to succeed at that level.  If your metric is to be a top 25 program then you might have a shot. I'm saying the coach won't much matter because the program is underfunded.  They obviously know that or they would have hired someone else by now. They are content that he runs a nice tidy program and doesn't cause trouble.

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I'm saying that if being competitive in the Big 10 is your measuring stick, then you will chronically be measured as performing poorly because the program will never be funded to succeed at that level.  If your metric is to be a top 25 program then you might have a shot. I'm saying the coach won't much matter because the program is underfunded.  They obviously know that or they would have hired someone else by now. They are content that he runs a nice tidy program and doesn't cause trouble.

#1 It is the B1G, the premier wrestling conference in the country. Many, many coaches would love to have the opportunity to coach in the conference. The same goes for wrestlers wanting to wrestle in it.

#2 They get 9.9 scholarships, both schools have great facilities and are great schools to attend for various degrees. Purdue has even upgraded their facilities and from the pictures they look top notch.

#3 Both teams seem to be able to travel to Vegas amongst other destinations.

 

Both these teams have nice funds and while they might not rival Penn State or Iowa, they have many advantages over the other 65 schools with wrestling at the DI level.

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#1 It is the B1G, the premier wrestling conference in the country. Many, many coaches would love to have the opportunity to coach in the conference. The same goes for wrestlers wanting to wrestle in it.

#2 They get 9.9 scholarships, both schools have great facilities and are great schools to attend for various degrees. Purdue has even upgraded their facilities and from the pictures they look top notch.

#3 Both teams seem to be able to travel to Vegas amongst other destinations.

 

Both these teams have nice funds and while they might not rival Penn State or Iowa, they have many advantages over the other 65 schools with wrestling at the DI level.

 

You published the coaches salaries earlier. Seems pretty straight forward to me.  Purdue will not pay the big time salaries that other schools are willing to pay. For pretty much any sport. I'd wager they don't have a single coach with a top five salary in the Big Ten, for any sport.

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FYI... ;)

 

PURDUE's RECRUITS:

 

J. Aven (Indiana) (not nationally ranked)

B Thornton (Wisconsin) D-1 2x'er (Large Schools), not nationally ranked but looks like a tough kid on film and vs. nationally ranked kids.

P. Andreotti (Illinois) 3A (Large Schools)-- Placed 3rd, not nationally ranked but I saw him a lot this year, a tough kid.

A. McCloskey (Indiana) Runner-up in IN last year, recovering this season.

M. Leveille (Illinois) 3A (Large Schools) runner-up, lunch pale kid. Lost 3-1 in finals vs. Nationally Ranked I. White.

 

INDIANA's RECRUITS:

 

G. Jolley-Little (Indiana) (not nationally ranked)

C. Weaver (Michigan) Nationally Ranked Top 20 kid, #13.

J. Danishek (Ohio) #2 ranked kid in the nation.

F. Miller (Indiana)  Hard-nosed kid. (Nationally ranked in Top 20) #10.

B Martin (California) Ranked #20 in the country by Intermat.

L Marcicki (Michigan) Wrestled at Detroit Central Catholic, a very tough schedule and program. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

D. Thatcher (Indiana) Tough kid, lunch pale mentality. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

D. Conte (California) Wrestled at De La Salle in CAL, tough program and schedule. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

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You published the coaches salaries earlier. Seems pretty straight forward to me.  Purdue will not pay the big time salaries that other schools are willing to pay. For pretty much any sport. I'd wager they don't have a single coach with a top five salary in the Big Ten, for any sport.

 

Schwab seems to be doing pretty well at UNI. According to the Des Moines Register, his base salary is 77K.

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FYI... ;)

 

PURDUE's RECRUITS:

 

J. Aven (Indiana) (not nationally ranked)

B Thornton (Wisconsin) D-1 2x'er (Large Schools), not nationally ranked but looks like a tough kid on film and vs. nationally ranked kids.

P. Andreotti (Illinois) 3A (Large Schools)-- Placed 3rd, not nationally ranked but I saw him a lot this year, a tough kid.

A. McCloskey (Indiana) Runner-up in IN last year, recovering this season.

M. Leveille (Illinois) 3A (Large Schools) runner-up, lunch pale kid. Lost 3-1 in finals vs. Nationally Ranked I. White.

 

INDIANA's RECRUITS:

 

G. Jolley-Little (Indiana) (not nationally ranked)

C. Weaver (Michigan) Nationally Ranked Top 20 kid, #13.

J. Danishek (Ohio) #2 ranked kid in the nation.

F. Miller (Indiana)  Hard-nosed kid. (Nationally ranked in Top 20) #10.

B Martin (California) Ranked #20 in the country by Intermat.

L Marcicki (Michigan) Wrestled at Detroit Central Catholic, a very tough schedule and program. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

D. Thatcher (Indiana) Tough kid, lunch pale mentality. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

D. Conte (California) Wrestled at De La Salle in CAL, tough program and schedule. (not nationally ranked in Top 20)

 

I don't see a single B10 talent in Purdue's incoming class.  Some quality Indiana/Illinois High School guys, but nobody who is going to be knocking down the door to be an All-American for at least the first 3 or 4 years.

 

IU's class is better, but still not great.  3 top 20 nationally ranked guys is a respectable class, however.  Danishek could make an immediate impact, and Fletcher Miller has had national success in Fargo.  Weaver is a 3x Michigan champ.

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Mud flap are you a x-purdue coach?  You sound like you have hard feelings like a guy who got fired or something.

 

I'm not affiliated with either program.  Never been a coach at either program, but have donated money to both in the last 5 years and have spoken to both Coach Hinkel and Coach Goldman personally about the direction of their programs.

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Schwab seems to be doing pretty well at UNI. According to the Des Moines Register, his base salary is 77K.

 

Some random data and thoughts . . .

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?id=6163208  this website pretty well says it all.

 

UNI has something like 28 out of 37 wrestlers from Iowa.  They have no wrestlers from Indiana.  The best wrestlers from Iowa probably don't go to UNI.

 

Purdue has 19 out of 29 wrestlers from Indiana.  They have no wrestlers from Iowa.  The best wrestlers from Indiana probably don't go to Purdue.

 

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UNI has something like 28 out of 37 wrestlers from Iowa.  They have no wrestlers from Indiana. 

 

FYI, in the pre-Schwab era Mishawaka's Alex and Benji Dolly both attended UNI for a couple seasons.  As did Merrillville's James Lawrence for a short stint.

 

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Mud lets put your name up on the board. Nice to know who a guy is talking to.

 

Why is my identity relevant?  A lot of people share my same frustrations.  Obviously you are blinded by the fact that you go to BoilerElite and idolize their coaching staff because they spend time with unknownwrestler junior.

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Mud is just saying what needs to be said. IU and PU needs to open the door, sell the farm to get kids like Tshirts, Sliga, Howe to stay in state. BOTTOM LINE. GO GET THEM. I would offer a kid like TShirts a full ride, no cost. Guess what, others will follow.

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Not a college kid but I am a season ticket holder and the park hasn't been as packed as years past, not as bad as the ghost town known as the Cell, I guess which is the better fan, those that come even when they're bad or those that bail when the going gets rough, a debate for another day and site.

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Well if it's good Indiana kids you want on almost no scholarship money....that still win...WELL look no further then the University of Indianapolis! !

Started 9 Indiana kids this year and consistently does so year in and year out.

The only thing you have to compromise is the D2 status and that can always change with time.

 

http://s402.trackwrestling.com/tw/predefinedtournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&sport=wrestling&TIM=1393708052787&pageName=&ie=false&frameSize=592

 

 

 

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Well if it's good Indiana kids you want on almost no scholarship money....that still win...WELL look no further then the University of Indianapolis! !

Started 9 Indiana kids this year and consistently does so year in and year out.

The only thing you have to compromise is the D2 status and that can always change with time.

 

http://s402.trackwrestling.com/tw/predefinedtournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&sport=wrestling&TIM=1393708052787&pageName=&ie=false&frameSize=592

 

I love the INDY program but it's apples and oranges if you are talking about WINS in D2 vs. WINS in the Big Ten. No slight to INDY because they have produced some great wrestlers with our homegrown kids but the Big Ten is the Top Conference in the nation for D1.

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Mudflap, you have to realize that if Indiana kids don't want to stay in Indiana,they don't have too. You make it sound like we are obligated to go to an Indiana college. I understand your side in the debate, but if there is a better school that wants an elite wrestler, then by all means they should go. Do you think Jason would have won the Big 10 at IU or Purdue? He went to NW to get better because there are better wrestlers at these other schools. So to sum up, Indiana wrestlers are not obligated to go to less talented Indiana colleges, and they go out of state because there are better practice partners.

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